gravitational-aether Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Please read a text o the subject, I suggested one above. There isn't the time nor the space on a internet forum to explain all of the intricacies of quantum mechanics. Please understand in a double slit experiment it is the aether which waves. A week ago you had never even heard of pilot-wave theory. 'Quantum mechanics rule 'bent' in classic experiment' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13626587 'For his part, Professor Steinberg believes that the result reduces a limitation not on quantum physics but on physicists themselves. "I feel like we're starting to pull back a veil on what nature really is," he said. "The trouble with quantum mechanics is that while we've learned to calculate the outcomes of all sorts of experiments, we've lost much of our ability to describe what is really happening in any natural language. I think that this has really hampered our ability to make progress, to come up with new ideas and see intuitively how new systems ought to behave."' http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=new-double-slit-experiment-skirts-uncertainty-principle "Intriguingly, the trajectories closely match those predicted by an unconventional interpretation of quantum mechanics known as pilot-wave theory, in which each particle has a well-defined trajectory that takes it through one slit while the associated wave passes through both slits." A particle physically displaces the aether. A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated wave in the aether which passes through both. As the aether wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave piloting the particle of pilot-wave theory. Strongly detecting the particle turns the associated aether wave into chop. The particle gets knocked around by the chop and continues on the path it is traveling. What waves in a double slit experiment is the aether. "It is ironic that Einstein's most creative work, the general theory of relativity, should boil down to conceptualizing space as a medium when his original premise [in special relativity] was that no such medium existed [..] The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry. [..] It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo." - Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel Laureate in Physics, endowed chair in physics, Stanford University "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense." - Albert Einstein The relativistic ether referred to by Laughlin is the ether which propagates light referred to by Einstein. What waves in a double slit experiment is the relativistic ether of general relativity. Edited December 16, 2012 by gravitational-aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 You've made a strong statement there if I say prove it you'll need maths to do that so I really don't see a point in continuing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitational-aether Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 You've made a strong statement there if I say prove it you'll need maths to do that so I really don't see a point in continuing . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_wave#The_Pilot_Wave_theory "The Pilot Wave theory is one of several interpretations of quantum mechanics. It uses the same mathematics as other interpretations of quantum mechanics; consequently, it is also supported by the current experimental evidence to the same extent as the other interpretations." It also correctly explains what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment where there is a physical particle and a physical wave. The particle travels through a single slit and the associated physical wave passes through both. The physical wave is a wave in the aether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Yes, an interpretation. Do some reading about them and ways of proving one over another as it stands. I've tried talking to you about the differences but you don't seem to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitational-aether Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Yes, an interpretation. Do some reading about them and ways of proving one over another as it stands. I've tried talking to you about the differences but you don't seem to care. Pilot-wave theory uses the same mathematics as other interpretations of quantum mechanics but you don't seem to care. In pilot-wave theory there is a physical particle and a physical wave. In a double slit experiment the particle physically travels through a single slit and the associated physical wave in the aether physically passes through both. Edited December 16, 2012 by gravitational-aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Pilot-wave theory uses the same mathematics as other interpretations of quantum mechanics but you don't seem to care. Then there is no way to distinguish it from any other interpretation. They are therefore all equal, add no predictive power and are not describing anything in the way that science demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitational-aether Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 Then there is no way to distinguish it from any other interpretation. They are therefore all equal, add no predictive power and are not describing anything in the way that science demands. The particle is always observed entering, traveling through and exiting a single slit in a double slit experiment. This distinguishes pilot-wave theory from other interpretations since it is the only interpretation supported by what is observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 What is observed is consistent with the other interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I am familiar with de Broglie's pilot wave theory. It is not exactly an interpretation of QM but rather a hidden variable theory. In effect it presumes that the modern interpretation of QM is incomplete and there are undiscovered variables at work which make a classical, deterministic, common sense theory behave as a quantum mechanical, probabilistic, un -common theory. I suggest you read Bell. There are no hidden variables in QM, and that is the way reality is. Subject to interpretation only if we wish it to 'make sense', but it doesn't have to. Reality doesn't need to accomodate our 'common sense'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitational-aether Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) What is observed is consistent with the other interpretations. No, it isn't. What is observed is the particle always entering, traveling through and exiting a single slit. I am familiar with de Broglie's pilot wave theory. It is not exactly an interpretation of QM but rather a hidden variable theory. In effect it presumes that the modern interpretation of QM is incomplete and there are undiscovered variables at work which make a classical, deterministic, common sense theory behave as a quantum mechanical, probabilistic, un -common theory. I suggest you read Bell. There are no hidden variables in QM, and that is the way reality is. Subject to interpretation only if we wish it to 'make sense', but it doesn't have to. Reality doesn't need to accomodate our 'common sense'. And that is where pilot-wave theory is incomplete. There are no such things as hidden variables. Bell's inequality places an invalid constraint on classical physics. You have a pair of dice. They are exact opposites. If you roll one and it is a 6 the other is a 1. If one is a 5 the other is a 2. If one is a 4 the other is a 3. There is a 1 in 6 chance of any die being a particular number. Once you know what that die is you know what the other is. The way Bell's theorem works is it says there is a 1 in 6 chance of the other die being any particular number. Bell's theorem does not take into account what is known about the pair. When a downconverted photon pair are created they are exact opposites. They are created with exact opposite polarizations. They are created with exact opposite angular momentums. When you detect one you know something about the other. The downconverted photon pair are not entangled. The downconverted photon pair do not have hidden variables. They are detected with the spins they are because they are created that way and knowing the spin of one changes your knowledge about what the probability of the spins of the other will be. Edited December 16, 2012 by gravitational-aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 No, it isn't. What is observed is the particle always entering, traveling through and exiting a single slit. When you measure at the slit which is consistent with the the other interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) No, it isn't. What is observed is the particle always entering, traveling through and exiting a single slit. No, that's incorrect. When the measurement is made at the slit which shows the particle went through, the interference pattern disappears. Edited December 16, 2012 by ACG52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitational-aether Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 When you measure at the slit which is consistent with the the other interpretations. If you place detectors in the middle of the slit the particle is always detected in a single slit. This means the particle physically entered a single slit. To think the particle does not enter a single slit if there aren't detectors in the middle of the slits is absolutely ridiculous absurd nonsense. Q. Why is the particle always detected entering, traveling through or exiting a single slit. A. The particle always enters, travels through and exits a single slit. It is the associated wave in the aether which passes through both. No, that's incorrect. When the measurement is made at the slit which shows the particle went through, the interference pattern disappears. In a double slit experiment the particle travels a well defined path which takes it through one slit. The associated wave in the aether passes through both. As the aether wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave piloting the particle of pilot-wave theory. Detecting the particle strongly exiting a single slit turns the associated aether wave into chop. The aether waves exiting the slits interact with the detectors and become many short waves with irregular motion. The waves are disorganized. There is no wave interference. The particle pitches and rolls through the chop. The particle gets knocked around by the chop and it no longer creates an interference pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 The aether waves exiting the slits interact with the detectors and become many short waves with irregular motion. The waves are disorganized. There is no wave interference. The particle pitches and rolls through the chop. The particle gets knocked around by the chop and it no longer creates an interference pattern. Except this in no way explains the delayed quantum eraser experiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypervalent_iodine Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 ! Moderator Note Since gravitational-aether has been banned as a sock puppet, this thread no longer has any reaosn to be open, so I'm closing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts