More light molecules exist in the Jupiter?

[alpha2cen]

We know hydrogen atom is very light molecules is the Earth. But the Jupiter gravity is very high. So, more light molecules than hydrogen exist on the surface?

Edited October 19, 2012 by alpha2cen

[EquisDeXD]

We know hydrogen atom is very light molecules is the Earth. But the Jupiter gravity is very high. So, more light molecules than hydrogen exist on the surface?

 

Hydrogen is the lightest and lowest density element you can have, below hydrogen there's no protons. And there is more mass on Jupiter than on Earth, so Jupiter has a high acceleration due to gravity.

[alpha2cen]

Hydrogen is the lightest and lowest density element you can have, below hydrogen there's no protons. And there is more mass on Jupiter than on Earth, so Jupiter has a high acceleration due to gravity.

 

To keep gas molecules in the planet, sufficient gravity is required. Till now we know hydrogen is the lightest molecules in the universe. But we have not gone to the very high gravity planet yet.

So, we do not know whether the other molecules, which are made of other particles, exist or not.

[Ophiolite]

To keep gas molecules in the planet, sufficient gravity is required. Till now we know hydrogen is the lightest molecules in the universe. But we have not gone to the very high gravity planet yet.

So, we do not know whether the other molecules, which are made of other particles, exist or not.

As Equis has explained very clearly there are no lighter molecules than hydrogen. Our certainty in this regard has nothing to do with not having visited planets with a higher gravity than Jupiter. Our certainty is based upon our well documented and validated understanding of atomic structure. Molecules are composed of combinations of atoms. Atoms have a nucleus which contains one or more protons. Hydrogen, the lightest element, has a single proton. If you have less than one proton you don't have an atom and therefore you can't have any molecules.

[alpha2cen]

As Equis has explained very clearly there are no lighter molecules than hydrogen. Our certainty in this regard has nothing to do with not having visited planets with a higher gravity than Jupiter. Our certainty is based upon our well documented and validated understanding of atomic structure. Molecules are composed of combinations of atoms. Atoms have a nucleus which contains one or more protons. Hydrogen, the lightest element, has a single proton. If you have less than one proton you don't have an atom and therefore you can't have any molecules.

 

Sun-------> very high gravity, very high temperature

Jupiter ---> high gravity, low temperature

The condition seems like particle trap in the collider.

 

Current molecular theory is also perfect.

But we do not know whether that is a conclusion or not.

Data tells everything.

[Ophiolite]

So, you accept that your idea of lighter molecules is wrong? Or not?

[alpha2cen]

The research is very worthful. If there is not such particles, our knowledge about the universe basically will have no problems.

Edited October 22, 2012 by alpha2cen

[Moontanman]

 

Jupiter ---> high gravity, low temperature

 

 

Not true, Jupiter is very hot, it radiates more energy than it receives and below the cloud tops the temps increase very fast. The Earth's atmospheric temps high in the atmosphere are very cold so you can't say that high in Jupiter's atmosphere is the real temperature of the planet.

 

But there is an atom lighter than hydrogen... positronium... I know irrelevant to this conversation...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium

 

Positronium (Ps) is a system consisting of an electron and its anti-particle, a positron, bound together into an "exotic atom". The system is unstable: the two particles annihilate each other to produce two gamma ray photons after an average lifetime of 125 picoseconds or three gamma ray photons after 142 nanoseconds in vacuum, depending on the relative spin states of the positron and electron. The orbit of the two particles and the set of energy levels is similar to that of the hydrogen atom (electron and proton). However, because of the reduced mass, the frequencies associated with the spectral lines are less than half of those of the corresponding hydrogen lines.

[Ophiolite]

Interesting Moontanman - of course it is not truly an atom and certainly does not form any molecules.

[Moontanman]

Interesting Moontanman - of course it is not truly an atom and certainly does not form any molecules.

 

 

I remember reading someplace, i can't remember where, that in the eventual heat death of the universe after all the black holes have evaporated all that will be left is positronium but with the particles separated by something like several light years...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe

 

All nucleons decay

1040 years

Given our assumed half-life of the proton, nucleons (protons and bound neutrons) will have undergone roughly 1,000 half-lives by the time the universe is 1040 years old. To put this into perspective, there are an estimated 1080 protons currently in the universe.[25] This means that the number of nucleons will be slashed in half 1,000 times by the time the universe is 1040 years old. Hence, there will be roughly ½1,000 (approximately 10−301) as many nucleons remaining as there are today; that is, zero nucleons remaining in the universe at the end of the Degenerate Age. Effectively, all baryonic matter will have been changed into photons and leptons. Some models predict the formation of stable positronium atoms with a greater diameter than the observable universe’s current diameter in 1085 years, and that these will in turn decay to gamma radiation in 10141 years.[3] §IID, [4]

Edited October 22, 2012 by Moontanman

[Airbrush]

We know hydrogen atom is very light molecules is the Earth. But the Jupiter gravity is very high. So, more light molecules than hydrogen exist on the surface?

 

Alpha, I admire your courage to discuss this in English which is obviously not your first language. May I ask what your first language is?

 

Hydrogen has various densities depending upon the pressure. Deep inside of Jupiter the Hydrogen is very heavy and dense from high pressure. It even becomes like a liquid with high temperatures and metallic.

 

"Jupiter is primarily composed of hydrogen with a quarter of its mass being helium, although helium only comprises about a tenth of the number of molecules. It may also have a rocky core of heavier elements."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter

Edited October 22, 2012 by Airbrush

[alpha2cen]

Not true, Jupiter is very hot, it radiates more energy than it receives and below the cloud tops the temps increase very fast. The Earth's atmospheric temps high in the atmosphere are very cold so you can't say that high in Jupiter's atmosphere is the real temperature of the planet.

 

But there is an atom lighter than hydrogen... positronium... I know irrelevant to this conversation...

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Positronium

 

 

 

Jupiter's surface temperature is very low.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/what-is-jupiter-58_prt.htm

 

It has much amount of radiation surrounding , as I know.

Edited October 22, 2012 by alpha2cen

[Moontanman]

Jupiter's surface temperature is very low.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter

It has much amount of radiation surrounding , as I know.

 

 

Where in that wiki does it say the surface temperature of Jupiter is very low?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Moontanman

[alpha2cen]

Where in that wiki does it say the surface temperature of Jupiter is very low?

 

Sorry, This reference is more correct.

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/what-is-jupiter-58_prt.htm

[Moontanman]

Sorry, This reference is more correct.

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/what-is-jupiter-58_prt.htm

 

 

Evidently we have different ideas about the definition of the surface of Jupiter and it's temps. the article I showed you said the the "surface" is considered to be at the 10 bar level which is 20 c, higher up it is cold and so is the earth, you seem to be defining the surface at the 1 bar level but as you go down the temps go up fast reaching a blazing 24,000 degrees at the center.

 

Since there is no real surface I guess it's a moot point, sorry for bringing it up.

 

http://www.universetoday.com/15097/temperature-of-jupiter/

[alpha2cen]

If there are light molecules on the surface of Jupiter, we may think the origin of the particles.

 

The first thing is like this.

At the beginning of the Solar system, most of light particles are attached on the sun and some of them remains in the space, but starting sun burning, most of light particle leave the solar system by their high speed and solar wind.

But, the cause of the Jupiter's high gravity and it's low temperature, some of them remains in it.

 

Second, most planet does not have any force to attract light particles freely moving in the space, but it's high gravity Jupiter keeps small stable particles on the external surface. The particles come from the external solar system or our sun.

 

Jupiter has three attractive force factors, i.e., low temperature, high gravity, strong terrestrial magnetism.

Edited October 23, 2012 by alpha2cen

[Moontanman]

If there are light molecules on the surface of Jupiter, we may think the origin of the particles.

 

The first thing is like this.

At the beginning of the Solar system, most of light particles are attached on the sun and some of them remains in the space, but starting sun burning, most of light particle leave the solar system by their high speed and solar wind.

But, the cause of the Jupiter's high gravity and it's low temperature, some of them remains in it.

 

Second, most planet does not have any force to attract light particles freely moving in the space, but it's high gravity Jupiter keeps small stable particles on the external surface. The particles come from the external solar system or our sun.

 

Jupiter has three attractive force factors, i.e., low temperature, high gravity, strong terrestrial magnetism.

 

 

I think you have cause and effect mixed up and magnetism has nothing to do with it.

 

Jupiter formed beyond the ice line or the place where ices were stable in the solar nebula. Jupiter formed hot and is cooling down slowly, that is why is radiates about twice as much heat as it gets from the sun. As I said earlier saying Jupiter is cold because it's high level atmosphere is cold is the same as saying the earth it cold because it's high level atmosphere is cold. Jupiter has a greenhouse effect that warms it and the released heat of contraction also heats it up, if you were in a ship falling down in Jupiter's atmosphere you would roast not freeze as you got deeper.

[alpha2cen]

This picture tells the Jupiter's mystery.

Is nothing captured above the force of attracting hydrogen?

[mooeypoo]

!

Moderator Note

Since this is not mainstream science (to say the least), the thread is moved to speculation.

[alpha2cen]

This is a gravity map of the Jupiter.

Jupiter rotates very fast.

This is wiki site. Look at the Jupiter photo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter

 

I hope Juno will give us sufficient data about the Jupiter's polar area.

Which one is correct between current theory or other world?

[Moontanman]

This picture tells the Jupiter's mystery.

Is nothing captured above the force of attracting hydrogen?

 

 

Nothing is above the hydrogen layer, the entire atmosphere is made up principally of hydrogen with a few other gasses mixed in. The atmosphere just gets ever more dense as you go down into the planet.

[alpha2cen]

This is a Fig. of gravity. We assume the Jupiter as a solid sphere.

Jupiter rotates fast than Earth.

For the large diameter gravity difference is bigger than the Earth's one.

So, polar area is suitable to observe that kind of phenomena.

Current our knowledge says it is not impossible to exist such light molecules.

But, our understanding is based on our past experience.

Data says what is true. Does the Juno space craft have sufficient equipments to answer this problem?

Edited October 24, 2012 by alpha2cen

[ACG52]

Gravity has nothing to do with rotation.

 

Jupiter is not a solid body, it consists of gas.

 

Anything else you'd like to get wrong?

[alpha2cen]

Gravity has nothing to do with rotation.

 

Jupiter is not a solid body, it consists of gas.

 

Anything else you'd like to get wrong?

 

This is gravity formula on the Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Gravity_Formula

This is a Jupiter's curious image.

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/pia01196

[Moontanman]

This is gravity formula on the Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Gravity_Formula

This is a Jupiter's curious image.

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/pia01196

 

 

Please quote the parts of your links that are relevant to this discussion, I can't find anything there that supports your assertions....