rigney Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) iNow, it probably is as simple as he is (or seems to be) a straight shooter. In the bit with the reporter or whoever it was questioning him, he dismissed the stupid question as stupid. (Of course you can't find "Attack America" in a book written in the 8th Century. If you could even you would be considering conversion. ) He was able to follow up with dates and places. He was just doing what people do when someone claims Christianity is a religion of peace. The only logical response is "Since when?" The incident in Iraq (I remember reading about it at the time) has both good and bad points. It probably was the wrong thing to do, but if you are short on time and the lives of your men are at risk..... Right or wrong, the incident shows that when the chips are down he values the lives and safety of his men above rules or his own advancement. Sort of indirectly saying that he'd rather risk a court martial than lead his men into an ambush that he could have avoided. Noblesse oblige is something that conservatives respond to. Consider the stereotypes of the "Leaders" of the two sides. The right wing leader is depicted as "Gung Ho" and all "Follow me men, let's get them!" while the left wing leader is depicted as saying "Onwards comrades! Viva la revolution!" while crouching behind a rock wearing the only really arrow proof helmet. The more somebody resembles the first stereotype, for want of a better term, the "John Wayne" type, the more conservatives like them. I don't know a good term for it, "style" maybe? But it's the difference between a leader that says "You are hereby ordered to invade Hell and capture Satan" and the one who says "I'm going to Hell to kick Satans butt. Who's coming with me?" Only one of those statements works in the Dukes trademark drawl. Had I been in West's shoes and knowing the conditions that might ensue for his men, I would have put a round so close to that MFs ear, he would never hear out of it again. And I'm 'almost" non-provocable. I think? Edited July 15, 2012 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Had I been in West's shoes and knowing the conditions that might ensue for his men, I would have put a round so close to that MFs ear, he would never hear out of it again. And I'm 'almost" non-provocable. I think? I'm not sure that would mean i would vote for him no matter what his politics was but it does give me respect for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) Noyhing! Other than the fact he follows a regimen of honesty, decency, intellect and what America is all about. Wow, I watched that video, and he appears to be everything wrong with a politician: 1) Blames Islam for people killing in the name of Islam.... the fawk? He can prattle off dates about when Islam got all stabby (because Christianity was soooo not stabby in 620 ad ) but when it comes to saying anything substantial, either he is just unable or unwilling to give any sort of nuanced answer - which of course the crowd loves. 2) He all but states his actions are beyond reproach - not in general - not to Good Honest Christian Americans... but he doesn't have to explain himself to Dirty Stabby Muslims because "You attacked us" and... I guess when he's decided you are beneath him, he doesn't even have to treat you like a person. So far, all I see is dishonesty, indecency, and intellectual corruption. If you have to bad mouth people and quote entirely unrelated numbers just to drum up an emotional response, that's intellectually corrupt. If you treat someone as less than a person because you don't like their religion (not them, not their actions, but the actions of a handful out of the 1.5+ billion practitioners) than I can't quite use the word "decency" to describe them. If he tried be honest, or decent, or decided an intellectual conversation was worth more than sycophantic pandering I'd probably find him less repulsive, but you'll have to actually outline what makes him appealing as I can't see it. Can you cite some sort basis for him, not being a total whiny insipid snot? P.S: I would support Adam West though, even if he ran as Adam We. That kid's got class. Edited July 15, 2012 by padren 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) If he tried be honest, or decent, or decided an intellectual conversation was worth more than sycophantic pandering I'd probably find him less repulsive, but you'll have to actually outline what makes him appealing as I can't see it. If he could actually walk on water, you would still find him and his American ideals repulsive. A day will come when all Blacks realise that: "Back of the Bus" is a forgotten metaphor, and those who seek nothing more than foment will find a country that don't give a crap for their wild ideas. Edited July 15, 2012 by rigney -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If he could actually walk on water, you would still find him and his American ideals repulsive. A day will come when all Blacks realise that: "Back of the Bus" is a forgotten metaphor, and those who seek nothing more than foment will find a country that don't give a crap for their wild ideas. If the man has any American ideals, I find the fact he subverts them to be an intellectually dishonest pedantic hack slightly more important than his capacity (or lack there of) to walk on water. I really don't care about his background either - if he's stooped to the sorts of moral cowardice he displays in that video you posted, he's long since burned any credit he could have previously gained... he could have answered the question in any number of ways without resorting to such disgusting tactics. Seriously - if you are going to hold selected passages in the Koran against all 1.5 billion people practicing Islam you better be okay with the same argument being used against Christians. If you are going to hold the atrocities of some Muslims against all Muslims (going back to 628 AD at that...) you better be willing to accept Christianity is no less bloody. Why the hell can't we just deal with the specific Muslims that do want to kill us? They do exist! They teach that the Koran instructs it's followers to kill Americans - just as abortion bombers teach that the Bible justifies killing American doctors. Why do we need to these BS generalizations to ensure an entire race or religion can be denigrated - is everything a bloody black-and-white holy war with these guys?? In short - you have to be an abject coward to beat a man with a yard stick you yourself would refuse to be measured by. Frankly, I do not call that an American ideal. PS: I have no idea what you're saying about buses.... sorry. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 That's a great post dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBruce Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What specifically about Allen West makes him like catnip to conservatives? Honestly, the thing I think that has led him to conservative stardom is his ability to say controversial things in ways that start media fire storms surrounding him. I am not saying that conservatives like the crazy things he says -- I would speculate that a majority of conservatives would actually disagree with some of his statements -- but rather by making a spectacle out of himself he draws a lot of media attention, and this high level of media exposure is the major cause of his popularity. I do not have any evidence to support this, but it certainly seems he comes up in a fair number of articles on Politico and ThinkProgress especially considering he's only a freshmen representative. Although I am not sure how to explain his amazing fundraising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Honestly, the thing I think that has led him to conservative stardom is his ability to say controversial things in ways that start media fire storms surrounding him. I am not saying that conservatives like the crazy things he says -- I would speculate that a majority of conservatives would actually disagree with some of his statements -- but rather by making a spectacle out of himself he draws a lot of media attention, and this high level of media exposure is the major cause of his popularity. I do not have any evidence to support this, but it certainly seems he comes up in a fair number of articles on Politico and ThinkProgress especially considering he's only a freshmen representative. Although I am not sure how to explain his amazing fundraising. I'm not a bible thumper but I believe in giving the devil his due. West is as clear a dignitary as I've ever heard. Huckabee is a neoconservative and bible thumper, but I've never caught him wrapped up in a lie. So, West must be pleasing a lot of people, noting the donations to his war chest.A 10 minute video that pretty well sums up his stand on our nations situation. http://www.therightscoop.com/allen-west-true-racism-lies-among-white-liberals-who-think-black-conservatives-need-approval-from-their-masters/ Edited July 17, 2012 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Huckabee is a neoconservative and bible thumper, but I've never caught him wrapped up in a lie. I think being a religious right neoconservative AND a Republican is a lie in itself. How can the Republican platform be represented by someone who wants to invade personal rights and privacy, be the world's police and grow the federal government to accomplish those things? What kind of truly representative democracy would allow that? It's like buying an ill-fitting, out-of-style, horrible looking suit just because it has your favorite color in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I think being a religious right neoconservative AND a Republican is a lie in itself. How can the Republican platform be represented by someone who wants to invade personal rights and privacy, be the world's police and grow the federal government to accomplish those things? What kind of truly representative democracy would allow that? It's like buying an ill-fitting, out-of-style, horrible looking suit just because it has your favorite color in it. I don't know what to tell you about Huckabee other than the video. And as far as to personal rights and privacy, how do we determine which side is giving us a screwing, or is it both? With the present administration making tax changes, raising our national debt exponentially and even trying to alter our constitution, I feel threatened by them. Personally I don't blame Obama as much as his cabinet. A president is only one person, the people who advise him is another thing entirely. But being a rightwing leaning Hick, I want him out of there come November. Edited July 17, 2012 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't know what to tell you about Huckabee other than the video. And as far as to personal rights and privacy, how do we determine which side is giving us a screwing, or is it both? The religious right wants to allow invasive personal rights violations with regard to morality and even our own bodies. They want to legislate their own "holiness" on everyone else, with an agenda that's completely at odds with a democracy that separates church and state. Neoconservatives are merely opportunists clinging to the Republican party with no regard for what it stands for. They see money and power in policing the world, keeping us involved in conflicts everywhere, and using taxpayer revenue and legislative power to subsidize and deregulate their private interests. I think the thing to do is read the Republican platform and see where some of the religious right and neoconservative points differ. Then it's easier to see who is using the platform to bend you over. With the present administration making tax changes, raising our national debt exponentially and even trying to alter our constitution, I feel threatened by them. Raising the debt ceiling is nothing new. Neither is messing with taxes. Ditto altering the Constitution. Why do you feel threatened when a Democrat does it but not a Republican? Personally I don't blame Obama as much as his cabinet. A president is only one person, the people who advise him is another thing entirely. But being a rightwing leaning Hick, I want him out of there come November. I think you need to ask yourself just how far right you really are. Obama is more right of center than left, imo (and I'm not alone). Any other politician who calls him down for being too left of center is probably extremely far right. I don't think extremism is where we need to go right now. We need a fundamental shift in the way we approach almost everything. We need to start living within our means as citizens and use credit more wisely. Our major businesses are NOT looking out for the country, so electing representatives from that arena is probably going to make things worse. We need to stop thinking economically and start thinking technologically. We need to start planning based on that technology and build our smaller businesses back up, since they're the ones who tend to hire domestically more often. We need businesses that grow jobs and GDP, not just their own bottom line. Our market economy is still viable, but it's been sold out to businesses that make themselves strong by using the country, rather than building a strong company that can make the country strong through the taxes it pays, the products and services it produces and the workers it employs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 ! Moderator Note this thread may require a split. The OP is about Allen West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) ! Moderator Note this thread may require a split. The OP is about Allen West. Let's hang on to Allen West, We have enough trouble just trying to sort out the other BS. Edited July 17, 2012 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry, I failed to tie in that Allen West is completely representative of what I responded to rigney with, that his views are so totally misaligned with the Republican platform as to make him a questionable representative. It should be enough that he simultaneously claims to uphold the freedom of religion on one hand while deriding Islam as a whole as violent and untrustworthy. He also claims to champion the truth and freedom of speech but tells a town hall meeting detractor to "put the microphone down and go home". He claims the Congressional Progressive Caucus are all "card-carrying members of the Communist Party", while simultaneously claiming that the Democratic "propaganda machine" would've made Nazi leader Joseph Goebbels proud. Nice bit of propaganda there, if you're a Democrat you're a Nazi, and if you're a progressive Democrat you're a Nazi Communist. How does fascistic communism work, anyway? Sounds like more misaligned political ideology. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Sorry, I failed to tie in that Allen West is completely representative of what I responded to rigney with, that his views are so totally misaligned with the Republican platform as to make him a questionable representative. It should be enough that he simultaneously claims to uphold the freedom of religion on one hand while deriding Islam as a whole as violent and untrustworthy. He also claims to champion the truth and freedom of speech but tells a town hall meeting detractor to "put the microphone down and go home". He claims the Congressional Progressive Caucus are all "card-carrying members of the Communist Party", while simultaneously claiming that the Democratic "propaganda machine" would've made Nazi leader Joseph Goebbels proud. Nice bit of propaganda there, if you're a Democrat you're a Nazi, and if you're a progressive Democrat you're a Nazi Communist. How does fascistic communism work, anyway? Sounds like more misaligned political ideology. You seem left slanted while I lean the other way. But neither of us can predicate or control the outcome. I like West for what seems his straight on tactics not wanting our country to be lost in the shuffle of what's yours or mine and what's best for all of us. I'm hoping the next generation can straighten it out. Cheers! Edited July 17, 2012 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 you're left slanted, I'm right slanted, and neither of us can predicate the outcome. I just don't want our country to be lost in the shuffle of what's yours or mine and hoping the next generation can straighten it out. Cheers! Rigney, to me there is quite a bit of difference between being slanted and fallen completely over flat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 you're left slanted, I'm right slanted, and neither of us can predicate the outcome. I just don't want our country to be lost in the shuffle of what's yours or mine and hoping the next generation can straighten it out. Cheers! But I think both of us are necessary for a good democracy, rigney, and that's where Allen West is lacking. He claims the Democrats are no better than Nazis, while simultaneously telling people that, “I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool.” Ha ha ha, his constituency laughs and applauds while trading Goebbels for Mengela. Personally, I want the right to keep the extreme left in check, and the left to keep the extreme right in check. What we don't have, however, is enough true representative power with just two parties to cover all the people in such a massive, eclectic and complicated country as the US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 But I think both of us are necessary for a good democracy, rigney, and that's where Allen West is lacking. He claims the Democrats are no better than Nazis, while simultaneously telling people that, “I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool.” Ha ha ha, his constituency laughs and applauds while trading Goebbels for Mengela. Allen West is not even close to being slanted, the right often portray themselves as just a little bit right and closer to center but they seldom are and the more loudly they proclaim it usually the further from the center they are... The extreme left often seem to go out of their way to proclaim it... Personally, I want the right to keep the extreme left in check, and the left to keep the extreme right in check. What we don't have, however, is enough true representative power with just two parties to cover all the people in such a massive, eclectic and complicated country as the US. I refuse to be labeled as right left or even center, I look for good ideas, the direction they come from is meaningless if it's a good idea and no matter how far left and right it comes from. The instant you decide to take a label your choices become limited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBruce Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 A 10 minute video that pretty well sums up his stand on our nations situation. http://www.therights...-their-masters/ This video is exactly what I was talking about. Rep. West says something controversial on the campaign trail, and so he then gets a ten minute interview on Fox News. This type of increased media exposure is what I believe has caused his rise to fame, and not that he's is recognizable the media becomes a self fulfilling prophecy since he now gets invites to shows since he is one of the more recognizable representatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) This video is exactly what I was talking about. Rep. West says something controversial on the campaign trail, and so he then gets a ten minute interview on Fox News. This type of increased media exposure is what I believe has caused his rise to fame, and not that he's is recognizable the media becomes a self fulfilling prophecy since he now gets invites to shows since he is one of the more recognizable representatives. I suppose that I'm some sort of a radica in a sense. Both my Dad and Granddad were staunch democrats. I voted democratic up and through President Kennedy's assignation. Shortly afterJohnson was sworn into office I saw writing on the wall that troubled me. I tried hanging with Carter but found his ideas as liberal as Johnsons. You're right in many respects, that is; in finding a middle ground. If it doesn't happen shortly, I really don't know what's going to happen to our country. I've never considered West as a presidential candidate anymore than I did Obama. Colin Powell, Eisenhower, McArthur, YES! Yes, I lean to the right.But not to where I need a crutch for support, mind you. Somehow, after 60 years of trying to keep our nation on an even keel, i just cant acclimate myself to totally giving it away. Edited July 17, 2012 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I Somehow i just cant acclimate myself to total give aways. Total give a ways? Who is giving away what to whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Total give a ways? Who is giving away what to whom? Moon, if you were any more liberal, you'd have to be painted green like our "possible" aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Moon, if you were any more liberal, you'd have to be painted green like our "possible" aliens. So no clue to the answer of my question? Aliens are grey, everyone knows that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 So no clue to the answer of my question? Aliens are grey, everyone knows that.... Only you Moon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Only you Moon! I ain't nuttin but the truth rigney... Democrats give money away to poor people... Republicans give money away to the rich.... Only really One of the major differences I can see and that is blurred beyond belief... get your crutches old man Edited July 17, 2012 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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