Sayonara Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 you cant tell the difference, no, but that doesnt mean there isnt a difference, as you, sayonara, should be able to tell from your clone thread, i think its your anyway, and the other clone threads as well. It's not just that you can't tell the difference, the point is that there is no difference. Cloning has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 It's not just that you can't tell the difference, the point is that there is no difference[/i']. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! maybe not to an onlooker, but the whole point of it, the whole method of quantum entaglement, ALL OF IT, the whole point is that, THEY DIDNT TELEPORT anything, they COPIED IT, sure, if you were watching, it wouldnt make a difference, but this is a new scientific branch, which needs to advance, therefore, needs to be understood, how, why, all of that, UNDERSTOOD, and you are not understanding, that it is done by COPYING, NOT TELEPORTING! Cloning has nothing to do with it. i was saying, like a clone, identical, but not the same, doesnt matter, leave it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!maybe not to an onlooker' date=' but the whole point of it, the whole method of quantum entaglement, ALL OF IT, the whole point is that, THEY DIDNT TELEPORT anything, they COPIED IT, sure, if you were watching, it wouldnt make a difference, but this is a new scientific branch, which needs to advance, therefore, needs to be understood, how, why, all of that, UNDERSTOOD, and you are not understanding, that it is done by COPYING, NOT TELEPORTING![/quote'] What you don't understand is that the only difference between an atom with a set of properties, and another atom with the same properties, is the arbitrary label of "original" or "copy" that you have chosen to apply to them. Atoms do not come with serial numbers stamped on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 What you don't understand is that the only difference between an atom with a set of properties' date=' and another atom with the same properties, is the arbitrary label of "original" or "copy" that you have chosen to apply to them. Atoms do not come with serial numbers stamped on them.[/quote'] lol, we are not getting on well today! never mind, this is a debate forum after all; ok, i will agree with your above explanation, there is no physical difference, however to advance in this science, we must first understand it, and its method, and how it works, and it works by teleporting the properties, not the actual atom itself, and it is this that ive been trying to say, but I AGREE WITH YOU, my point was that, as far as understanding the techniques used to do it, for future scientists, or physicists to be able to do this, we must understand how, and it is not by teleporting the atom, it is by teleporting the properties of one, and copying it into another, maybe i have not made myself clear, as of now. sorry if thats the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Are u guys still talking about the same experiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Kind of. I'm just saying that the fact that the copy is not actually the original is not important. They are identical in all ways, so it doesn't matter one bit for any practical purposes. I mean, consider your skin. The atoms that make it up have been there less than a month, and there's a good chance they have been in your body for less than a year. Assuming we could use quantum teleportation to create a copy of you and destroy the original (and ignoring issues surrounding consciousness), how would the duplicate skin created for your body in this way be any different to the skin you will have grown in two months' time as part of your normal replacement cycle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Are u guys still talking about the same experiment? yes, the same experiment, the same quantum entaglement used for quantum teleportation, all the same as when this began; and the same as my other thread on quantum entaglement; please see: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4498&page=3 for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I'm just saying that the fact that the copy is not actually[/i'] the original is not important. They are identical in all ways, so it doesn't matter one bit for any practical purposes. and im saying, yes, whilst i agree with you, the young generation, being taught this, must understand that if you gave atoms invidvidual bar code, then they would NOT be the same, this is vital to understand so that the science of quantum entaglement, and quantum teleportation can advance, so whilst the product may seem identical, we must remember that it is actually an identical copy. whats the difference? none, just what whether we call it 'original' or 'copy' but that in itself IS a difference. sorry for arguing for soo long sayonara, it is the smallest of differences, i must admit, but these kinda things make a difference in this kinda science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I don't see why there should be any argument. I have not said that they are "the same atom". They are distinct entities, however they are also identical instances of the same class of entity - "being different" does not require "having differences". By all means give them different labels, but for all practical purposes they are completely interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 yes, for all practical purposes they are completely interchangeable, good you havent said they are the same atom and correct "being different" does not require "having differences" however, they are not the same actual atom, no atoms have moved places, or switched places or even teleported, merely the atom's properties were teleported somehwere else, not the atom itself whilst they are physically identical, the "teleported" atom, is NOT the original atom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Gahhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 for more information on this topic, please read: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4498&page=1 this is about the method used to teleport the particles, known as quantum entaglement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasori Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 ...I concur, Sayonara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellowes Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Okay, now I am new to this thread and only read it (the whole thing, including the 'argument') because it looked interesting. Now I am no scientist but from what I see they both have good points. It seems to me like its just making a copy of somethings 'properties' or 'data' somewhere else not actually phyiscally moving the object like the stereotypical person would think when they hear the word teleport. It seems to me like it is like what 5614 said(at least I think it was 5614), it is like sending a fax. When you send a fax the data on the original paper is only being copied yet it is being sent halfway around the world. The copy that is sent halfway around the world is still NOT the acutal original itself. So to me (a stereotypical person) it is not actually teleporting anything at all. The object to be teleported is not actually physically moved, it is copied. I think of it as burning a CD. You can take the original songs off of an original CD and put their properties temporarily on your computer, to later be put somewhere onto another blank CD. The result is two CDs, identical in Data and properties but actually two different physical things with one being the original and the other just a clone.So far from what I have read nothing has actually been really 'teleported', just copied and sent to somewhere else. It is going to be a long time before they can successfully teleport one thing, the whole thing, it's properties AND its physical self and state from one location to another. Remember that while my thread is still far from actually being correct to a stereotypical person that is what my view is of teleportation. Remember that I am not even in high school yet so have mercy. Help me, don't destroy me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 say this technology advances to the point that you can "teleport" every atom in your body. would the new version be alive? if so, would the "mid" go with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 yes, obviously, think about it; what makes you alive? your brain and heart working.... so what makes your brain and your heart? the cells, and atoms make the cells; so if the atoms were just copied somewhere else, they would work! it would all be identical, a perfect copy. if you know about making copies of protected CDs. if you copy using copy/paste, you will make an incomplete copy, which doesnt work, but if you do it correctly, using special software, then the copy will be perfect, one-for-one, identical..... it will work, same with "teleporting" a human... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 i asked because there are several chmical reactions going on at any point in time. you didn't answer about the mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 If you make an exact copy, all of the reactions and signals would be the same too, wouldn't they? So it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 say this technology advances to the point that you can "teleport" every atom in your body. would the new version be alive? if so, would the "mid" go with it? The atoms aren't being teleported. Data encoded in them is. So "this" technology is never going to advance to that point. The reason this is being done isn't to make a Star Trek transporter. It's because classically the fidelity is 0.5 - i.e. you lose half of the information about the states. Using quantum entanglement you can theoretically achieve 100% fidelity. Experiments have shown >0.5, demonstrating that the classical limit has been beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 although quantum entaglement is at the moment being used in quantum computing to teleport data, i see little reason, why, with a bit more research, we can't theoretically transport a living human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Except for simply how much information it takes to store the state of every single atom and molecule in your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 although quantum entaglement is at the moment being used in quantum computing to teleport data, i see little reason, why, with a bit more research, we can't theoretically transport a living human 5614, did I not tell you before that quantum teleportation, provides no useful means of transferring information as you still need a classical commuincations channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 my question remains unanswered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 although quantum entaglement is at the moment being used in quantum computing to teleport data, i see little reason, why, with a bit more research, we can't theoretically transport a living human Human physiology isn't a matter of how a particular atom is spin-polarized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Human physiology isn't a matter of how a particular atom is spin-polarized. obviously, it is to do with what and where, which would be all be teleported with quantum entaglement, so surely it would work... no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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