1 hour ago, CharonY said:

Over the weekend I talked to an engineer who knows way more about things like data centers than I do and his perspective if that that the issue with water use is likely overblown as most newer centers are using closed-loop system of some sort (it could be regionally different), but also that other types of industries are using more water without the associated backlash.

Some of this might be the incremental increase, happening in areas where water scarcity is a bigger problem, and getting caught in deception, such as the Georgia center using 30 million gallons that was unreported (also power use deception) so not wanting to trust the assurances, and the reality that it’s not just a local issue. You read about it happening in one place and realize it can happen in your locality.

And “we don’t use that much water” is not zero, as the Utah kerfuffle shows

https://greatsaltlakenews.org/latest-news/salt-lake-tribune/can-utah-become-a-data-center-hub-without-draining-its-water-supply

2 hours ago, swansont said:

and getting caught in deception, such as the Georgia center using 30 million gallons that was unreported (also power use deception) so not wanting to trust the assurances, and the reality that it’s not just a local issue. You read about it happening in one place and realize it can happen in your locality.

I think deception is a big part of it. There is a sense that data centers are foisted on communities without their consent and there is apparently a lack of transparency (or at least the perception thereof). It doesn't really help that in many white collar jobs (other than within tech itself) AI use is enforced, disrupting established workflows without adding much immediate benefit. For example, engineers are forced to document all their work with AI tools, so that the AI can learn to solve problems. Rather obviously, only management really likes this.

Edit: also it doesn't really help that if we are in a cold war, all the players are the worst possible people to lead it. Instead of Oppenheimer we have human-shaped caricatures.

17 hours ago, CharonY said:

other types of industries are using more water without the associated backlash.

I tend to agree with your friend that the water usage issue is overblown given the focus on closed loop installations, but I always bristle at the the framing about other industries using more water.

I often hear about almond farming in California as the compared example and I hate it. Almond farming is SO bad given the water requirements and location they’ve chosen. It’s like saying your babysitter really isn’t that bad bc they’re not as horrible for your kids as Jeffrey Epstein.

17 hours ago, CharonY said:

Unless they actually realize some of the use cases they envision. But over the years I got quite disillusioned at the gap between what the tech elite tells us to what they really deliver.

Understandable, though encourage you to think more about the entrepreneurial opportunities this presents. It flattens the ability for people to have a business idea and run with it despite lack of access or funding. One person companies netting several millions in revenue are rapidly growing in frequency. I think there are even a few with only 2 or 3 people netting over a billion in revenue, precisely bc they can scale operations with AI

5 hours ago, iNow said:

I often hear about almond farming in California as the compared example and I hate it. Almond farming is SO bad given the water requirements and location they’ve chosen. It’s like saying your babysitter really isn’t that bad bc they’re not as horrible for your kids as Jeffrey Epstein.

Fair, I think the context was more that the carbon footprint as a whole might be a bigger issue all thins considered. Especially the increase in LNG use has set off some alarm bells, though despite all the wildfires, climate change seems to be taking a backseat over AI.

5 hours ago, iNow said:

Understandable, though encourage you to think more about the entrepreneurial opportunities this presents. It flattens the ability for people to have a business idea and run with it despite lack of access or funding. One person companies netting several millions in revenue are rapidly growing in frequency. I think there are even a few with only 2 or 3 people netting over a billion in revenue, precisely bc they can scale operations with AI

Fair, though I think we are still in a stage figuring out what works and how sustainable it is. I suspect that I am biased as in my industry ideas amount to fairly little and while I have tried to think about ways to improve research, beyond fairly mundane uses. I am wondering, are those operations tech-type startups?