14 minutes ago, swansont said:

Moderator Note

When I asked you to explain your drawings, I was hoping for labeling, not a contradictory color-code legend. (hydrogen is yellow, but also red? Be consistent) Using copyrighted images in them doesn’t clear anything up, and is also a rules violation (which requires removal) Not providing a link to where you got the images that aren’t yours is another.

Your drawings may be clear to you, but you are falling woefully short of explaining them to others. That might be one reason that nobody “takes it serious”

I have "COLOR-codet" the "Hydrogens" of the Six(6)-"HEXAL-Bases" for "better" explanation !!!... of the existing "WHITE" !!!... "Hydrogen-Bonds" !!!...

and My "hidden" <Secret> !!!... behind My "TRIPLE-Base" !!!... :

( a "smaller" triple-Base !!!... "inside" !!!... a "LARGER" !!!... TRIPLE-BASE !!! )

5 minutes ago, Koni said:

I have "COLOR-codet" the "Hydrogens" of the Six(6)-"HEXAL-Bases" for "better" explanation !!!... of the existing "WHITE" !!!... "Hydrogen-Bonds" !!!...

And I’m saying this is not particularly helpful

13 minutes ago, swansont said:

And I’m saying this is not particularly

14 minutes ago, swansont said:

And I’m saying this is not particularly helpful

"Students" !!!... "have" to "understand" !!!... their "Teachers" !!!...

WHY ???... don't do the "Teachers" the "same" ???...

( and I am "NOT" !!!... a "child" !!!... I am !!!... ( 62-Years ) !!!,,, old !!!... )

respect "please" !!!...

I’m older than you, and I have a PhD in physics, so don’t come at me with that attitude. I can understand a lot of things when they are adequately explained.

I’ve known a lot of smart scientists who weren’t good teachers; they expected others to just “get it” and it doesn’t work that way. Thinking that you are the teacher, and can't be questioned or held to a standard, is part of the problem.

On 5/28/2025 at 8:18 PM, Koni said:

It is "sad" !!!... BUT "NO" one !!!... takes My (THEORETICAL) "Molecules" serious !!!...

How on Earth can we take it seriously when you can't write it seriously? Why do you use three exclamation points when one is enough? Why capitalize "but" and quote "no" and make "one" bold? Why are you misusing ellipses, the three dots? They literally denote an incomplete thought, or an omission of words, which is very bad when trying to explain anything.

You're trying to explain something complicated, and you're not helping with all this distracting emphasis. If you think it's your style, it's a confusing one and doesn't help you at all.

19 hours ago, Koni said:

Valency is the number of atoms of a particular element that is combined with one atom of another element to form a molecule.

That is at best a very very poor description of valency, but more realistically incorrect.

23 minutes ago, studiot said:

That is at best a very very poor description of valency, but more realistically incorrect.

"please" !!!... WHAT ???... do You "mean" ???... with "THAT" ???...

can You ("Please") !!!... explain it to Me ???... ( with an examble ) ???... perhaps ???...

THANK You !!!...

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

How on Earth can we take it seriously when you can't write it seriously? Why do you use three exclamation points when one is enough? Why capitalize "but" and quote "no" and make "one" bold? Why are you misusing ellipses, the three dots? They literally denote an incomplete thought, or an omission of words, which is very bad when trying to explain anything.

You're trying to explain something complicated, and you're not helping with all this distracting emphasis. If you think it's your style, it's a confusing one and doesn't help you at all.

"Sorry" !!!... THAT is MY "writting" styl !!!... and sorry "again" !!!... I am "NOT" a "scientist" !!!...

9 minutes ago, Koni said:

"please" !!!... WHAT ???... do You "mean" ???... with "THAT" ???...

can You ("Please") !!!... explain it to Me ???... ( with an examble ) ???... perhaps ???...

THANK You !!!...

"Sorry" !!!... THAT is MY "writting" styl !!!... and sorry "again" !!!... I am "NOT" a "scientist" !!!...

Well it's a crap style and if you want people to take you seriously you should damned well change it.

Write in full sentences, without putting words in capital letters, and without redundant punctuation marks all over the place, and you stand some chance people will not immediately assume you are barking mad. As things are, well, we may draw conclusions to your disadvantage.

Edited May 31May 31 by exchemist

4 minutes ago, Koni said:

"please" !!!... WHAT ???... do You "mean" ???... with "THAT" ???...

can You ("Please") !!!... explain it to Me ???... ( with an examble ) ???... perhaps ???...

THANK You !!!...

"Sorry" !!!... THAT is MY "writting" styl !!!... and sorry "again" !!!... I am "NOT" a "scientist" !!!...

The valency of an atom is not set by what is connected to it but is intrinsic to each element.

Some elements exhibit more than one valency in certain circumstances.

For example nitrogen is trivalent, or has a valency of 3.

Following your prescription would suggest that the nitrogen molecule, which has two atoms of nitrogen connected together, is monovalent or has a valency of one.

In fact there are three bonds between the nitrogens in the molecule so satisfying the valency requirement of 3 for each by means of a triple bond.

I suggest that you try this out on simple molecules before going to very complex ones.

But !!!... ( IF "I" ! am NOT so "clever" !!!... I aspect My "TRIPLE" & "HEXAL" !!!... D.N.A."-Bases "are" !!!... )

11 minutes ago, studiot said:

The valency of an atom is not set by what is connected to it but is intrinsic to each element.

Some elements exhibit more than one valency in certain circumstances.

For example nitrogen is trivalent, or has a valency of 3.

Following your prescription would suggest that the nitrogen molecule, which has two atoms of nitrogen connected together, is monovalent or has a valency of one.

In fact there are three bonds between the nitrogens in the molecule so satisfying the valency requirement of 3 for each by means of a triple bond.

I suggest that you try this out on simple molecules before going to very complex ones.

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

14 minutes ago, Koni said:

But !!!... ( IF "I" ! am NOT so "clever" !!!... I aspect My "TRIPLE" & "HEXAL" !!!... D.N.A."-Bases "are" !!!... )

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

By the (Cyclic-Molecule) : ( LA≡BC≡DE≡LA ) !!!... the ("≡") !!!... are the three(3) "Hydrogen(≡)Bonds" !!!...

21 minutes ago, Koni said:

But !!!... ( IF "I" ! am NOT so "clever" !!!... I aspect My "TRIPLE" & "HEXAL" !!!... D.N.A."-Bases "are" !!!... )

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

By the (Cyclic-Molecule) : ( LA≡BC≡DE≡LA ) !!!... the ("≡") !!!... are the three(3) "Hydrogen(≡)Bonds" !!!...

22 minutes ago, Koni said:

L

22 minutes ago, Koni said:

But !!!... ( IF "I" ! am NOT so "clever" !!!... I aspect My "TRIPLE" & "HEXAL" !!!... D.N.A."-Bases "are" !!!... )

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

By the (Cyclic-Molecule) : ( FA≡BC≡DE≡FA ) !!!... the ("≡") !!!... are the three(3) "Hydrogen(≡)Bonds" !!!...

Edited May 31May 31 by Koni
( explanation ) = The light GREEN "Atoms" !!!... are WHITE "Hydrogen-Atoms" !!!... of "taytomeric-moves" !!!...

1 hour ago, Koni said:

"Sorry" !!!...

The " " marks mean that either you're quoting someone else or your apology is insincere, and the exclamation points, even one of them, are completely unnecessary unless you're shouting.

1 hour ago, Koni said:

THAT is MY "writting" styl !!!...

I use allcaps on a single word in a sentence for emphasis as part of MY writing style. If you do it too much it's like listening to someone who is always yelling. It gets very tiring.

And you shouldn't use the ellipsis at all when explaining something. It's like you're saying, "The best way to understand my idea is...???"

Also, writing out the word for a number followed by that number in parenthesis, such as six(6), does the exact opposite of what you think it does. You aren't making yourself clearer.

1 hour ago, Koni said:

and sorry "again" !!!... I am "NOT" a "scientist" !!!...

My criticism is on your English writing. I understand that it's not your first or only language. I'm just saying that if you've spent six years trying to explain your ideas to people, perhaps your English writing style is at least partly to blame.

Just now, Koni said:

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

No.

Thank you for wasting my time.

Good Night.

31 minutes ago, Koni said:

But !!!... ( IF "I" ! am NOT so "clever" !!!... I aspect My "TRIPLE" & "HEXAL" !!!... D.N.A."-Bases "are" !!!... )

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

By the (Cyclic-Molecule) : ( LA≡BC≡DE≡LA ) !!!... the ("≡") !!!... are the three(3) "Hydrogen(≡)Bonds" !!!...

31 minutes ago, Koni said:

But !!!... ( IF "I" ! am NOT so "clever" !!!... I aspect My "TRIPLE" & "HEXAL" !!!... D.N.A."-Bases "are" !!!... )

You mean "THIS" : ( NH3 ) !!!... :

By the (Cyclic-Molecule) : ( FA≡BC≡DE≡FA ) !!!... the ("≡") !!!... are the three(3) "Hydrogen(≡)Bonds" !!!...

27 minutes ago, studiot said:

No.

Thank you for wasting my time.

Good Night.

GREEK "σθένος" = valency

In chemistry, the valence (US spelling) or valency (British spelling) of an atom is a measure of its combining capacity with other atoms when it forms chemical compounds or molecules. Valence is generally understood to be the number of chemical bonds that each atom of a given chemical element typically forms.

I assure you !!!... You are NOT !!!... "wasting" Your "Time" with "Me" !!!... :

In most compounds, nitrogen typically exhibits a valence of 3, meaning it forms 3 bonds.

( However, nitrogen can also exhibit a valence of 5 in certain compounds like PCl5. It has 5 valence electrons, with 2 in the 2s orbital and 3 in the 2p orbitals. )

So !!!... WHERE ???... Is the "problem" ???... ( on MY "TRIPLE-Bases-Molecule" ) ???...

7 hours ago, Koni said:

GREEK "σθένος" = valency

In chemistry, the valence (US spelling) or valency (British spelling) of an atom is a measure of its combining capacity with other atoms when it forms chemical compounds or molecules. Valence is generally understood to be the number of chemical bonds that each atom of a given chemical element typically forms.

I assure you !!!... You are NOT !!!... "wasting" Your "Time" with "Me" !!!... :

This is so much better.

OK so some further explanation.

Valency refers to the number of chemical bonds that can be formed by a single atom or single ion or group of atoms/ions acting as a single unit.

An example group os the ammonium ion [NH₄]+, which is a monovalent cation. Note the nitrogen is now quadrivalent within the ion.

Chemical bonds cannot be pulled apart mechanically.

Furthermore they bestow or lead to the combined molecule or ion having new chemical properties not enjoyed by the parent atoms/ions.

Chemical bonds have nearly fixed lengths, energies and configuration in space.

Hydrogen bonds vary in whether or not they form and where they form.

It was originally thought that they were weaker than chemical bonds because they can be pulled apart mechanically, but there are examples of very strong hydrogen bonds..

However they do not confer additional chemical properties on H bonded species.

They also vary in length.

However they do modify the physicsl properties of the material they form in.

For example in liquid water H bonds are constantly forming and breaking as the water molecules move around, leading to the famous 'anomalous' physical behaviour of water.

As a result H bonds do not count in the valency considerations.

They are very important in some (large) bio molecules, especially those such as you are considering with close wound structures.

They are special because they occur on account of casual proximity.

Here is a way to think about it.

A true chemical bond is like what we call a popper or press stud in clothing.

They cllck and stay together and hold the parts of the fabric to form one garment. (Obviously you can pull poppers apart)

A hydrogen bond , on the other hand is like velcro.

Not positive location and click like a popper, but interlocking hooks that can be more easily pulled apart and offerd up in different ways to form various arrangement.

Note this is not a perfect analogy but it may well help understand the difference.

For your purposes these Pharmacy books may help

Edited June 1Jun 1 by studiot

2 hours ago, studiot said:

This is so much better.

OK so some further explanation.

Valency refers to the number of chemical bonds that can be formed by a single atom or single ion or group of atoms/ions acting as a single unit.

An example group os the ammonium ion [NH₄]+, which is a monovalent cation. Note the nitrogen is now quadrivalent within the ion.

Chemical bonds cannot be pulled apart mechanically.

Furthermore they bestow or lead to the combined molecule or ion having new chemical properties not enjoyed by the parent atoms/ions.

Chemical bonds have nearly fixed lengths, energies and configuration in space.

Hydrogen bonds vary in whether or not they form and where they form.

It was originally thought that they were weaker than chemical bonds because they can be pulled apart mechanically, but there are examples of very strong hydrogen bonds..

However they do not confer additional chemical properties on H bonded species.

They also vary in length.

However they do modify the physicsl properties of the material they form in.

For example in liquid water H bonds are constantly forming and breaking as the water molecules move around, leading to the famous 'anomalous' physical behaviour of water.

As a result H bonds do not count in the valency considerations.

They are very important in some (large) bio molecules, especially those such as you are considering with close wound structures.

They are special because they occur on account of casual proximity.

Here is a way to think about it.

A true chemical bond is like what we call a popper or press stud in clothing.

They cllck and stay together and hold the parts of the fabric to form one garment. (Obviously you can pull poppers apart)

A hydrogen bond , on the other hand is like velcro.

Not positive location and click like a popper, but interlocking hooks that can be more easily pulled apart and offerd up in different ways to form various arrangement.

Note this is not a perfect analogy but it may well help understand the difference.

For your purposes these Pharmacy books may help

( THANK You !!!... "very-very" much !!!... ( It is "nice" to "meet" someone !!!... WHO "wants" to "Help" !!!... )

4 minutes ago, Koni said:

I "know" THESE "things"!!!... BUT I'm NOT that good at "expressing" them!!!..

11 minutes ago, Koni said:

( THANK You !!!... "very-very" much !!!... ( It is "nice" to "meet" someone !!!... WHO "wants" to "Help" !!!... )

11 minutes ago, Koni said:

( THANK You !!!... "very-very" much !!!... ( It is "nice" to "meet" someone !!!... WHO "wants" to "Help" !!!... )

I have "ordered" an ENGLISH-Book from "amazon.com" !!!... about "Pharmaceutical-Chemistry" !!!...

My "only" consern is !!!... THAT My "TRIPLE-Helix" !!!... ( "IF" someone make it ) cannot !!!... "open" !!!... ( "Like" the "DOUBLE-Helix" !!!... ) so !!!... THAT the "protein-enzyms" have "access" !!!,,, to the three(3) "D.N.A.-"Bases" !!!... ( ??? )

Edited June 1Jun 1 by Koni

18 hours ago, Koni said:

I assure you !!!... You are NOT !!!... "wasting" Your "Time" with "Me" !!!... :

Is it a waste of time to ask you if this is your diagram, and, if not, to ask you to tell us where it came from?

(AS IS REQUIRED BY THE RULES)

37 minutes ago, swansont said:

Is it a waste of time to ask you if this is your diagram, and, if not, to ask you to tell us where it came from?

(AS IS REQUIRED BY THE RULES)

It came from "Wikipedia" !!!...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_(chemistry)

"NASA" has to search !!!... and the other two(2) !!!... THEORETICAL (possible) !!!... "D.N.A.'s" !!!...

Just now, Koni said:

( THANK You !!!... "very-very" much !!!... ( It is "nice" to "meet" someone !!!... WHO "wants" to "Help" !!!... )

Glad you found this useful and could cope with the English.

Looking now at your coloured blobs, there are conventions on this and a very good writeup in the classic book

'Biochemistry' originally by Stryer, as in my 1995 edition.

The book has now reached its 9th edition and aquired some coauthors, but still published by Freeman.

It is a massive book and therfore very costly, although older editions can be had cheaply.

Here are a couple of pages explaining £D space models and going on to explain bonding as relevant to Biochemistry and life.

I have starred a short sentence which explains why simpler models are most often used - namely that space filling blobs though more realistic can obscure the view of the back of the molecule.

Sorry for the scannimg, but even my 4th ed is over 1000 pages long it is a big book.

Hahahahahaha !!!... ( I "know" it !!!... ) because !!!... I have "bought" !!!... the GREEK-Biochemistry-Book !!!... ( from "Stryer" !!!... )

The "Biochemistry-Book" from "Stryers" !!!... made Me !!!... ( "since" 12-Years ago !!!... ) to "buy" !!!... "Molecular-Models" !!!...

THANK You !!!...

Kosta - GREECE

"some" !!!... of My (Loved) "Biology" and "Biochemistry" !!!... Books !!!...

Edited June 1Jun 1 by Koni

(How much!!!) "Coffee!!!" "Do" you!!! Drink!!!???????

and !!!... My "Chess-board" for "3-players" !!!... ( the "real" !!!... and the "virtualy" !!!... ) gave Me !!!... the "FIRST" IDEA !!!... of "TRIPLE-"Bases" !!!...

13 minutes ago, TheVat said:

(How much!!!) "Coffee!!!" "Do" you!!! Drink!!!???????

WHAT ???... "will" You "mean" ???... with "THAT" ???...

( I do "NOT" !!!... "understand" !!!... "Chinesish" !!!... )

Kosta - GREECE

10 minutes ago, Koni said:

WHAT ???... "will" You "meen" ???... with "THAT" ???...

10 minutes ago, Koni said:

and !!!... My "Chess-board" for "3-players" !!!... ( the "real" !!!... and the "virtualy" !!!... ) gave Me !!!... the "FIRST" IDEA !!!... of "TRIPLE-"Bases" !!!...

WHAT ???... "will" You "meen" ???... with "THAT" ???...

( I do "NOT" !!!... "understand" !!!... "Chinesish" !!!... )

Kosta - GREECE

Edited June 1Jun 1 by Koni

2 hours ago, Koni said:

It came from "Wikipedia" !!!...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_(chemistry)

See how easy it is to follow the rules? Try doing that from now on.

Just now, Koni said:

and !!!... My "Chess-board" for "3-players" !!!... ( the "real" !!!... and the "virtualy" !!!... ) gave Me !!!... the "FIRST" IDEA !!!... of "TRIPLE-"Bases" !!!...

What do you think the H bonds do in the DNA molecule?

So what would be the function of the H bonds in your arrangement ?

12 minutes ago, studiot said:

What do you think the H bonds do in the DNA molecule?

So what would be the function of the H bonds in your arrangement ?

THANK You !!!... for asking Me !!!...

(1) The "Hydrogen-Bonds" inside a "TRIPLE-Base" !!!... have the same function as inside a "DOUBLE-Base" !!!...

(2) The matter is on the three-"3" !!!... ( "Hydrogen-connected" ) "Bases" !!!...

(3) Their ( 2:1 ) and ( 1:2 ) relationship ( to "each-other" ) !!!...

(4) which could make two(2) "different" !!!... "Moleculare-Pathways" : <one> ( 2:1 ) - ( r-RNA/t-RNA) !!!... and <one> ( 1:2 ) - ( r-RNA/t-RNA) !!!... ( with two(2) !!!... "different" !!!... "Ribosomes" !!!... ( perhaps ) !!!... )

(5) which can lead to "different-Amino-acids" and "Proteins" ( perhaps ) !!!...

(6) and as You can "see" !!!... ( in the Image "P3270213 3.JPG ) ... THERE is "only" !!!... "ONE" way !!!... THAT the three(3)-"D.N.A."-"Bases" !!!... can be "connected" together !!!...

(7) This WAS the "difficult" !!!... to make a "TRIPLE-Base" !!!... "suitable" !!!... for a "TRIPLE-"D.N.A."-Helix" !!!...

(8) The "reason" for the "nead" of a "TRIPLE-Helix" !!!... can be on the "more" existing Pyrene( C16H10) molecules !!!... ( as Benzene( C6H6) molecules) !!!...

(9) and !!!... the "very" HOT !!!... "Enviroment" of a "Planet with Life" !!!...

(10) because !!!... : ( 3*3 ) = "nine(9)" !!!... "Hydrogen-Bonds" !!!... are "better" !!!... THAN "only" three(3) !!!... "Hydrogen-Bonds" !!!...

(11) and to "answer" to Your "Last" (probably) "Question" : "WHY" ???... "would" ???... "Life" !!!... "do" THIS !!!...

the "answer" is !!!... "because" LIFE "try" !!!... "everything" !!!... every "possiblity" !!!...

THANK You !!!...

Kosta - GREECE

and !!!... "IF" !!!... "Biochemistry-Scientists" !!!... make My "TRIPLE-Base" !!!... and My "TRIPLE-D.N.A."-Helix" !!!...

THEN !!!... :

(1) We can "compare" together !!!... our "Double-Helix" !!!... with mine "Triple-Helix" !!!...

(2) "IF" we make an "artificial-Cell" !!!... we can make it with My "TRIPLE-Helix" !!!... to "prove" THAT it WAS made by "Intelligent-Desing" !!!... ( and "NOT" !!!... on "existing-Life" !!!... )

(3) The "TRIPLE-Helix" !!!... can be "used" to "store" inside "Codet-DATA" !!!... "better" !!!... "because" is is "NOT" LIFE from "our" Earth !!!...

THANK You !!!...

Kosta - GREECE

Edited June 1Jun 1 by Koni