Fluctuating magnetic fields cause heart attacks and strokes to double!

[LaraKnowles]

18 minutes ago, swansont said:

We’re a science discussion site. Saying you’ve seen news stories is very vague. Where are the actual papers where analysis is shown? Where are the statistics showing these alleged increased effects?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214552420300080 - Peer reviewed.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.021006 - Journal of the American Heart Association

https://biomedscis.com/fulltext/the-effects-of-solar-activity-and-geomagnetic-disturbance-on-human-health.ID.000203.php

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13769-does-the-earths-magnetic-field-cause-suicides/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2324402-solar-storms-may-cause-up-to-5500-heart-related-deaths-in-a-given-year/

There are links to magnetic storms and schizophrenia and even Alzheimer's https://biomedscis.com/fulltext/the-effects-of-solar-activity-and-geomagnetic-disturbance-on-human-health.ID.000203.php

https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-health/2019/09/19/geomagnetic-disturbances-and-cardiovascular-mortality-riskutm_sourcebmc_blogsutm_mediumreferralutm_contentnullutm_campaignblog_2019_on-health/

''Our results may be explained through the direct impact of environmental electric and magnetic fields produced during GMD on the human autonomic nervous system. Interactions between GMD and the autonomic nervous system are likely to induce a cascade of reactions in the body's electrophysiology that culminate in the collapse of organ functions and death.''

https://aepi.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42494-020-00019-9 Earth's magnetic field allegedly causes seizures too. 

It is theorized that this is because when Earth's magnetic field fluctuates, it messes up the pineal gland, causing all sorts of issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_storm

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by LaraKnowles

[swansont]

1 hour ago, LaraKnowles said:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214552420300080 - Peer reviewed.

“in patients with acute coronary syndrome” - niche group 

1 hour ago, LaraKnowles said:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.021006 - Journal of the American Heart Association

“in Elderly Adults” niche group

Also, the effects are ~3mm Hg, and I don’t see what the control variation was.

1 hour ago, LaraKnowles said:

 

https://aepi.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42494-020-00019-9 Earth's magnetic field allegedly causes seizures too. 

In epileptics, i.e. people already prone to seizures 

 

[LaraKnowles]

https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-health/2019/09/19/geomagnetic-disturbances-and-cardiovascular-mortality-riskutm_sourcebmc_blogsutm_mediumreferralutm_contentnullutm_campaignblog_2019_on-health/

''Our results may be explained through the direct impact of environmental electric and magnetic fields produced during GMD on the human autonomic nervous system. Interactions between GMD and the autonomic nervous system are likely to induce a cascade of reactions in the body's electrophysiology that culminate in the collapse of organ functions and death.''

 

Weird how no less than a few years ago scientists were assuring people that non-ionizing magnetic fields were harmless to people (remember scientists debunking the 5G conspiracy theories?) but now, all of a sudden, they are saying that even Earth's magnetic field is killing us. What is going on? Why the sudden 180? 

Edited December 19, 2023 by LaraKnowles

[swansont]

6 minutes ago, swansont said:

“in Elderly Adults” niche group

Also, the effects are ~3mm Hg, and I don’t see what the control variation was.

The measured variation was ~17 mm DBP and ~10 mm SBP.

 

[LaraKnowles]

The fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field during geomagnetic disturbances are measured in Nanotesla (nT). During a geomagnetic disturbance, the fluctuation intensity can vary depending on the severity of the geomagnetic storm. For mild storms, the fluctuations are a few tens of Nanotesla per minute. In a very severe storm, these fluctuations can be up to 500 nanoteslas per minute. 

[swansont]

38 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

The fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field during geomagnetic disturbances are measured in Nanotesla (nT). During a geomagnetic disturbance, the fluctuation intensity can vary depending on the severity of the geomagnetic storm. For mild storms, the fluctuations are a few tens of Nanotesla per minute. In a very severe storm, these fluctuations can be up to 500 nanoteslas per minute. 

How does this compare to the daily fluctuations of the field? And the overall strength of the field?

[LaraKnowles]

5 hours ago, swansont said:

How does this compare to the daily fluctuations of the field? And the overall strength of the field?

The strength varies depending on where you are but the lower end is 25,000 nanoteslas, upper end is 65,000. 

Fluctuations greater than -50 nanotesla per minute are considered geomagnetic storms. The authors of these studies are not suggesting that Earth's static magnetic field is causing these effects, but specifically the fluctuations in the field. A fluctuating magnetic field induces currents in a conductor, known as magnetic induction. The idea is the fluctuating magnetic field during these geomagnetic storms induces currents in the body, affecting the heart and nervous system.

Edited December 21, 2023 by LaraKnowles

[swansont]

12 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

The strength varies depending on where you are but the lower end is 25,000 nanoteslas, upper end is 65,000. 

Fluctuations greater than -50 nanotesla per minute are considered geomagnetic storms.

And it fluctuates by tens of nT every day. The overhead sun compresses the magnetosphere; I remember measuring a diurnal effect of about 30 nT when we were testing the magnetic shielding of an atomic clock.

12 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

The authors of these studies are not suggesting that Earth's static magnetic field is causing these effects, but specifically the fluctuations in the field. A fluctuating magnetic field induces currents in a conductor, known as magnetic induction. The idea is the fluctuating magnetic field during these geomagnetic storms induces currents in the body, affecting the heart and nervous system.

That’s the ”idea” but the connection is tenuous. They are explaining an effect that’s not there.

If this were a physics paper there would be no result - you barely have 1 standard deviation on total deaths in fig 4 of the paper, CVD deaths have less separation and MI is even less. It would be properly reported as being consistent with zero. (in high-energy particle physics you need five sigma for something to be considered a real result)

 

[LaraKnowles]

30 minutes ago, swansont said:

And it fluctuates by tens of nT every day. The overhead sun compresses the magnetosphere; I remember measuring a diurnal effect of about 30 nT when we were testing the magnetic shielding of an atomic clock.

That’s the ”idea” but the connection is tenuous. They are explaining an effect that’s not there.

If this were a physics paper there would be no result - you barely have 1 standard deviation on total deaths in fig 4 of the paper, CVD deaths have less separation and MI is even less. It would be properly reported as being consistent with zero. (in high-energy particle physics you need five sigma for something to be considered a real result)

 

How do you explain all the studies I linked reporting associations between geomagnetic storms (which are defined as a disturbance time index of -50 nT or lower) and effects on the heart and other systems in the body? When multiple studies corroborate these types of findings it makes it harder for me to be convinced that correlation doesn't equal causation in the context of this topic.

I understand correlation doesn't equal causation, but these studies are independent from one another, done by different authors in different countries in different organizations. I can't find any studies (or sources in general) saying that there is no association found between geomagnetic storms and negative health effects. The general scientific consensus seems to be that geomagnetic storms are harmful to health.

When small studies started showing correlations between the full moon and health effects, other studies debunked them and said there's no link. I'm not seeing the same thing happening concerning geomagnetic storms causing health effects.

Edited December 21, 2023 by LaraKnowles

[swansont]

11 hours ago, LaraKnowles said:

How do you explain all the studies I linked reporting associations between geomagnetic storms (which are defined as a disturbance time index of -50 nT or lower) and effects on the heart and other systems in the body? When multiple studies corroborate these types of findings it makes it harder for me to be convinced that correlation doesn't equal causation in the context of this topic.

I assume these other studies have similarly weak correlation, where the effect has a small bias but is still consistent with zero

Why does a 50 nT storm have an effect but a daily fluctuation of 30 nT doesn’t?

 

https://pburnley.faculty.unlv.edu/GEOL452_652/magnetism/notes/MagNotes19diurnal.html

 

11 hours ago, LaraKnowles said:

I understand correlation doesn't equal causation, but these studies are independent from one another, done by different authors in different countries in different organizations. I can't find any studies (or sources in general) saying that there is no association found between geomagnetic storms and negative health effects. The general scientific consensus seems to be that geomagnetic storms are harmful to health.

You’ve presented a few studies that have a tiny change, much smaller than the normal variation. If one argued that there is no effect, it would not be contradicted by the data.

Contrast this with e.g. smoking tobacco, where you see ~20x higher death rates from certain afflictions (e.g. emphysema and lung cancer in men)

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

11 hours ago, LaraKnowles said:

When small studies started showing correlations between the full moon and health effects, other studies debunked them and said there's no link. I'm not seeing the same thing happening concerning geomagnetic storms causing health effects.

Small studies have large statistical uncertainties, which is why they require followup by large studies. It’s not uncommon for the followup to show no effect once you have better statistics.

Where are the studies that show the effect under controlled conditions in lab animals? That’s usually the next step. Shield the earth’s field and put in place a known variation that can be turned on and off. It probably won’t happen, because something that only has a ~1% effect means you need a lot of subjects for the statistics to show up.

[LaraKnowles]

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

I assume these other studies have similarly weak correlation, where the effect has a small bias but is still consistent with zero

Why does a 50 nT storm have an effect but a daily fluctuation of 30 nT doesn’t?

 

https://pburnley.faculty.unlv.edu/GEOL452_652/magnetism/notes/MagNotes19diurnal.html

 

You’ve presented a few studies that have a tiny change, much smaller than the normal variation. If one argued that there is no effect, it would not be contradicted by the data.

Contrast this with e.g. smoking tobacco, where you see ~20x higher death rates from certain afflictions (e.g. emphysema and lung cancer in men)

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

Small studies have large statistical uncertainties, which is why they require followup by large studies. It’s not uncommon for the followup to show no effect once you have better statistics.

Where are the studies that show the effect under controlled conditions in lab animals? That’s usually the next step. Shield the earth’s field and put in place a known variation that can be turned on and off. It probably won’t happen, because something that only has a ~1% effect means you need a lot of subjects for the statistics to show up.

They simulated the geomagnetic field fluctuations on rats and found that the rats experienced more seizures the next day compared to control rats. https://aepi.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42494-020-00019-9

 

Quote

Electromagnetic waves aggravate epileptic seizures

Electromagnetic activity has been demonstrated to increase the susceptibility to epilepsy in animal studies. Michon et al. [13] exposed chronic epileptic rats to artificial magnetic fields that simulated the magnitude and morphology of enhanced geomagnetic activity for 5 min once per hour from midnight to 8:00 a.m. in next morning with changing intensities (from 0 nT to 70 nT in increments of 15 or 20 nT for 30 s) and revealed that the exposed rats had increased occurrence of seizures the next day. Exposure to increased magnitudes of daily natural geomagnetic activity (regional range approximately 10–70 nT) or nocturnal exposure to experimental magnetic fields that simulated geomagnetic activity with incremental changes in intensity over time significantly elevated the incidence of seizures in epileptic rats during the observational period [14, 15]. 

 

[swansont]

4 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

They simulated the geomagnetic field fluctuations on rats and found that the rats experienced more seizures the next day compared to control rats. https://aepi.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42494-020-00019-9

Epileptic rats.

You’re omitting important details.

[iNow]

13 minutes ago, swansont said:

Epileptic rats.

You’re omitting important details.

As epilepsy is itself related to a faulty flow of electric current through the brain, I wouldn’t be surprised if even there the change in measurement detected from simulated geomagnetic current applied transcranially may be an artifact. 

The strongest evidence of magnetisms impact on our minds comes from transcranial magnetic stimulation, a more useful and modern day equivalent of shock therapy used to treat specific mental challenges. This, however, is SEVERAL orders of magnitude higher intensity and more focused than that which is being discussed here in this thread. 

[swansont]

 

This is fig. 4 in the paper that the blog post discusses. Error bars are one standard deviation, meaning there's a decent chance that the result is zero for each of these results. There is no conclusive evidence showing an effect.

“Our study included up to 2,008,990 days with data for mortality, Kp index, temperature, and relative humidity from 263 cities. The mean daily total mortality was 14 deaths/day, with winter having 16 deaths/day, spring with 14 deaths/day, summer with 13 deaths/day and fall having 14 deaths/day, including 44,220,261 deaths in the study period”

I notice that they don’t give the variation in daily deaths, and if you divide deaths by the number of days you get 22, which is larger than the daily mortality numbers they cite.

Also, if their conclusions are to be consistent, geomagnetic activity must be preventing strokes.

 

[LaraKnowles]

Seen a lot of news articles lately about upcoming magnetic storms and their impact on human health: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/magnetic-storms-in-january-2024-anticipating-impact-timing/ar-AA1m2YfQ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EdgeStart&cvid=2ac33d5b533f441398bc86eb57ce3bd0&ei=22

A lot of these articles mention how magnetic storms are bad for the heart.

[exchemist]

33 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

Seen a lot of news articles lately about upcoming magnetic storms and their impact on human health: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/magnetic-storms-in-january-2024-anticipating-impact-timing/ar-AA1m2YfQ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EdgeStart&cvid=2ac33d5b533f441398bc86eb57ce3bd0&ei=22

A lot of these articles mention how magnetic storms are bad for the heart.

No they don't. 

But for you it makes a change from spontaneous combustion and exploding thymus glands, I suppose.

[swansont]

It’s not difficult to find sources that say there is nothing to this

https://www.health.com/condition/stroke/solar-flare-health-effects

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/science-verify/solar-flares-geomagnetic-storms-cmes-do-not-affect-people-humans-on-earth/536-9d58a725-6c74-4efd-85e8-7cbf1b3a55fb

 

[LaraKnowles]

22 minutes ago, swansont said:

It’s not difficult to find sources that say there is nothing to this

https://www.health.com/condition/stroke/solar-flare-health-effects

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/science-verify/solar-flares-geomagnetic-storms-cmes-do-not-affect-people-humans-on-earth/536-9d58a725-6c74-4efd-85e8-7cbf1b3a55fb

 

The second link says "Access Denied" when I click on it. What did it say? 

 

EDIT: Managed to find a cached version of it. It seems to be talking about radiation rather than the fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field, specifically how the radiation cannot harm us since the magnetic field protects us from it. The studies I linked were talking about how fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field during geomagnetic storms are responsible for the health effects, not radiation. The magnetic field is what prevents the radiation from reaching the surface but it is ultimately the fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field that are causing all these health effects.

Edited December 26, 2023 by LaraKnowles

[LaraKnowles]

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2014cosp...40E1114G/abstract#%3A~%3Atext%3DIt was shown statistically that%2Ccomparison with quiet geomagnetic conditions

Geomagnetic disturbances are fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field.

Quote

It was shown statistically that during geomagnetic disturbances the frequency of myocardial infarction and brain stroke cases increased on the average by a factor of two in comparison with quiet geomagnetic conditions.

Mechanism by how magnetic frequencies lead to heart attacks is discussed lower down in the article:

Quote

Our investigations show the red blood cells are very sensitive to electromagnetic forces. Most probable that geomagnetic fluctuations (frequency) acting on blood, brain, adrenals involves the adaptation system. This leads to increasing a level of catecholamines in blood responsible for activation of the clotting system, rise in aggregation and spasm in the afferent vessels of the microcirculatory network. In persons suffering from CHD, the foreground problem is the reversibility of these pathological processes.

Are hospitals kept updated on space weather so that they can plan accordingly?

 

[pzkpfw]

Don't you already have a thread on this stuff over in  Medical Science | Anatomy, Physiology and Neuroscience ?

 

[LaraKnowles]

This is referring to a specific study with a large sample size. 

[swansont]

40 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

Geomagnetic disturbances are fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field.

Which happen every day

33 minutes ago, LaraKnowles said:

This is referring to a specific study with a large sample size. 

Same topic. Threads merged

“Undated cases were excluded from the analysis”

No number is given; if these are randomly distributed then the ratio is smaller.

They do not specify the size of the disturbance and why normal daily fluctuations don’t have an effect.

“The analyzing data collected by the Moscow ambulance services covering more then one million observations over three years, cleaned up by seasonal effects of meteorological and social causes”

Meteorological? I wonder how big of a magnetic field fluctuation you get from lightning.