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24 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

Because unlike you nature cannot be fooled.

Perhaps you can help me as I seem to be fooled here. What gender do you associate with the following?

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If I answer your question you'll use the basis for my gender identity to claim that I don't believe any other basis is valid. So I won't answer. Is there any other point to your question than to trap 

I said insurmountable and systematic. My example shows a systematic difference which is typical in athletics. Your examples are in fact the ones which are specific, anecdotal, and not observed at the

I watch MMA. Some women in the sport have raised concerns about transgender athletes, which is how it came to my attention. Some in the medical have put forward scientific reasons to legitimise this c

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39 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Perhaps you can help me as I seem to be fooled here. What gender do you associate with the following?

Female. From Diabetic fetopathy associated with bilateral adrenal hyperplasia and ambiguous genitalia: a case report

Quote

The newborn with ambiguous genitalia was delivered with Apgar scores at 1 and 5 minutes of 4 and 3 respectively and was handed to the waiting neonatologist in the operative room. The newborn finally expired due to respiratory failure eighteen minutes after birth. The subsequent fetal chromosomal study revealed 46,XX.

Did you have a point?

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14 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

Did you have a point?

The point is that your assertion of binary only genders is unsupportable nonsense, not based on science, and is most commonly rooted in ignorance and bigotry. 

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6 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

No, you're just wrong.

Elaborate 

You appear to be suggesting you didn’t intend to suggest binary genders with your “can’t fool nature” comment. If that’s inaccurate, surely you can clarify your meaning. 

Said another way, what’s your point?

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14 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

 

Answer my previous question first.

No, I don't. I'm exploring why you think gender is a simple matter of science.

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

Elaborate 

You appear to be suggesting you didn’t intend to suggest binary genders with your “can’t fool nature” comment. If that’s inaccurate, surely you can clarify your meaning. 

Said another way, what’s your point?

There are insurmountable and systematic differences in athletic performance between men and women. Right now those differences cannot be fully eliminated with hormone therapy or other medical interventions. Pretending that they can be will not fool nature.

11 minutes ago, zapatos said:

No, I don't. I'm exploring why you think gender is a simple matter of science.

It definitely isn't simple or science if we make a person's gender dependent on their belief, since belief has nothing to do with science.

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5 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

There are insurmountable and systematic differences in athletic performance between men and women

Insurmountable? Lol. I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

Your generalizations are... let’s just call them... misguided and misogynistic.

 

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

Insurmountable? Lol. I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

Men 100m sprint:

Rank Mark WIND Competitor DOB Nat Pos   Venue Date Results Score
1 9.58 +0.9 Usain BOLT 21 AUG 1986 JAMJAM 1   Olympiastadion, Berlin (GER) 16 AUG 2009 1356
2 9.69 +2.0 Tyson GAY 09 AUG 1982 USAUSA 1   Shanghai (CHN) 20 SEP 2009 1316
2 9.69 -0.1 Yohan BLAKE 26 DEC 1989 JAMJAM 1   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 23 AUG 2012 1316
4 9.72 +0.2 Asafa POWELL 23 NOV 1982 JAMJAM 1f1   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 02 SEP 2008 1305
5 9.74 +0.9 Justin GATLIN 10 FEB 1982 USAUSA 1   Suhaim bin Hamad Stadium, Doha (QAT) 15 MAY 2015 1298
6 9.76 +0.6 Christian COLEMAN 06 MAR 1996 USAUSA 1f   Khalifa International Stadium, Doha (QAT) 28 SEP 2019 1291
7 9.78 +0.9 Nesta CARTER 11 OCT 1985 JAMJAM 1   Guidobaldi, Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010 1283
8 9.79 +0.1 Maurice GREENE 23 JUL 1974 USAUSA 1f3   Athina (GRE) 16 JUN 1999 1280
9 9.80 +1.3 Steve MULLINGS 29 NOV 1982 JAMJAM 1   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 04 JUN 2011 1276
10 9.82 +1.7 Richard THOMPSON 07 JUN 1985 TTOTTO 1f2   Port-of-Spain (TTO) 21 JUN 2014 1269
11 9.84 +0.7 Donovan BAILEY 16 DEC 1967 CANCAN 1   Olympic Stadium, Atlanta, GA (USA) 27 JUL 1996 1262
11 9.84 +0.2 Bruny SURIN 12 JUL 1967 CANCAN 2   La Cartuja, Sevilla (ESP) 22 AUG 1999 1262
11 9.84 +1.3 Trayvon BROMELL 10 JUL 1995 USAUSA 1h4   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 25 JUN 2015 1262
14 9.85 +1.2 Leroy BURRELL 21 FEB 1967 USAUSA 1f3   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 06 JUL 1994 1259
14 9.85 +1.7 Olusoji Adetokunbo FASUBA 09 JUL 1984 NGRNGR 1   Doha (QAT) 12 MAY 2006 1259
14 9.85 +1.3 Michael RODGERS 24 APR 1985 USAUSA 2   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 04 JUN 2011 1259
17 9.86 +1.2 Carl LEWIS 01 JUL 1961 USAUSA 1   Olympic Stadium, Tokyo (JPN) 25 AUG 1991 1255
17 9.86 -0.4 Frank FREDERICKS 02 OCT 1967 NAMNAM 1f1   Lausanne (SUI) 03 JUL 1996 1257
17 9.86 +1.8 Ato BOLDON 30 DEC 1973 TTOTTO 1   Walnut, CA (USA) 19 APR 1998 1255
17 9.86 +0.6 Francis OBIKWELU 22 NOV 1978 PORPOR 2   Olympic Stadium, Athina (GRE) 22 AUG 2004 1255
17 9.86 +1.4 Keston BLEDMAN 08 MAR 1988 TTOTTO 1f2   Port-of-Spain (TTO) 23 JUN 2012 1255
17 9.86 +1.3 Jimmy VICAUT 27 FEB 1992 FRAFRA 2   Paris (FRA) 04 JUL 2015 1255
17 9.86 +0.9 Noah LYLES 18 JUL 1997 USAUSA 1   Shanghai Stadium, Shanghai (CHN) 18 MAY 2019 1255
17 9.86 +0.8 Divine ODUDURU 07 OCT 1996 NGRNGR 1   Austin, TX (USA) 07 JUN 2019 1255
17 9.86 +1.6 Michael NORMAN 03 DEC 1997 USAUSA 1f3   AP Ranch, Fort Worth, TX (USA) 20 JUL 2020 1255
26 9.87 +0.3 Linford CHRISTIE 02 APR 1960 GBRGBR 1   Gottlieb-Daimler Stadion, Stuttgart (GER) 15 AUG 1993 1252
26 9.87 -0.2 Obadele THOMPSON 30 MAR 1976 BARBAR 1   SGJ, Johannesburg (RSA) 11 SEP 1998 1253
26 9.87 -0.1 Ronnie BAKER 15 OCT 1993 USAUSA 1   Stadion Śląski, Chorzów (POL) 22 AUG 2018 1252
29 9.88 +1.8 Shawn CRAWFORD 14 JAN 1978 USAUSA 1   Eugene, OR (USA) 19 JUN 2004 1248
29 9.88 +1.0 Walter DIX 31 JAN 1986 USAUSA 2f2   Luzern (SUI) 08 AUG 2010 1248
29 9.88 +0.9 Ryan BAILEY 13 APR 1989 USAUSA 2   Guidobaldi, Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010 1248
29 9.88 +1.0 Michael FRATER 06 OCT 1982 JAMJAM 2   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 30 JUN 2011 1248
33 9.89 +1.6 Travis PADGETT 13 DEC 1986 USAUSA 1qf2   Eugene, OR (USA) 28 JUN 2008 1245
33 9.89 +1.6 Darvis PATTON 04 DEC 1977 USAUSA 1qf3   Eugene, OR (USA) 28 JUN 2008 1245
33 9.89 +1.3 Ngonidzashe MAKUSHA 11 MAR 1987 ZIMZIM 1   Des Moines, IA (USA) 10 JUN 2011 1245
33 9.89 +1.9 Akani SIMBINE 21 SEP 1993 RSARSA 1   Sóstói Stadion, Székesfehérvár (HUN) 18 JUL 2016 1245
37 9.90 +0.4 Nickel ASHMEADE 07 APR 1990 JAMJAM 1sf2   Luzhniki, Moskva (RUS) 11 AUG 2013 1241
37 9.90 +0.6 André DE GRASSE 10 NOV 1994 CANCAN 3f   Khalifa International Stadium, Doha (QAT) 28 SEP 2019 1241
39 9.91 +1.5 Dennis MITCHELL 20 FEB 1966 USAUSA 1   Arena Civica, Milano (ITA) 07 SEP 1996 1238
39 9.91 +0.9 Leonard SCOTT 19 JAN 1980 USAUSA 2   Gottlieb-Daimler Stadion, Stuttgart (GER) 09 SEP 2006 1238
39 9.91 -0.5 Derrick ATKINS 05 JAN 1984 BAHBAH 2   Nagai Stadium, Osaka (JPN) 26 AUG 2007 1241
39 9.91 -0.2 Daniel BAILEY 09 SEP 1986 ANTANT 2   Paris-St-Denis (FRA) 17 JUL 2009 1239
39 9.91 +0.7 Churandy MARTINA 03 JUL 1984 NEDNED 2sf1   Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 05 AUG 2012 1238
39 9.91 +1.1 James DASAOLU 05 SEP 1987 GBRGBR 1sf2   Birmingham (GBR) 13 JUL 2013 1238
39 9.91 +1.8 Femi OGUNODE 15 MAY 1991 QATQAT 1   Wuhan (CHN) 04 JUN 2015 1238
39 9.91 +1.0 Julian FORTE 07 JAN 1993 JAMJAM 1   Olympiastadion, Berlin (GER) 27 AUG 2017 1238
39 9.91 +0.4 Zharnel HUGHES 13 JUL 1995 GBRGBR 1f1   Kingston (JAM) 09 JUN 2018 1238
39 9.91 +0.2 Bingtian SU 29 AUG 1989 CHNCHN 1   Moratalaz, Madrid (ESP) 22 JUN 2018 1238
49 9.92 +0.3 Andre CASON 20 JAN 1969 USAUSA 2   Gottlieb-Daimler Stadion, Stuttgart (GER) 15 AUG 1993 1234
49 9.92 +0.8 Jon DRUMMOND 09 SEP 1968 USAUSA h   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 12 JUN 1997 1234
49 9.92 +0.2 Tim MONTGOMERY 28 JAN 1975 USAUSA 2   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 13 JUN 1997 1234
49 9.92 -0.2 Seun OGUNKOYA 28 DEC 1977 NGRNGR 2   SGJ, Johannesburg (RSA) 11 SEP 1998 1235
49 9.92 +1.0 Tim HARDEN 27 JAN 1974 USAUSA 1   Luzern (SUI) 05 JUL 1999 1234
49 9.92 +2.0 Christophe LEMAITRE 11 JUN 1990 FRAFRA 1   Albi (FRA) 29 JUL 2011 1234
49 9.92 -0.8 Kemar BAILEY-COLE 10 JAN 1992 JAMJAM 3   Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 24 JUL 2015 1238
49 9.92 +0.9 Jak Ali HARVEY 04 MAY 1989 TURTUR 1f2   Erzurum (TUR) 12 JUN 2016 1234
49 9.92 +0.7 Isiah YOUNG 05 JAN 1990 USAUSA 1f1   Montverde, FL (USA) 09 JUN 2018 1234
58 9.93 +1.4 Calvin SMITH 08 JAN 1961 USAUSA 1   Air Force Academy (USA) 03 JUL 1983 1231
58 9.93 -0.6 Michael MARSH 04 AUG 1967 USAUSA 1f1   Walnut, CA (USA) 18 APR 1992 1234
58 9.93 +1.8 Patrick JOHNSON 26 SEP 1972 AUSAUS 1   Mito (JPN) 05 MAY 2003 1231
58 9.93 +1.1 Ivory WILLIAMS 02 MAY 1985 USAUSA 1f2   Rethymno (GRE) 20 JUL 2009 1231
58 9.93 +1.8 Kemarley BROWN 20 JUL 1992 JAMJAM 1   Walnut, CA (USA) 17 MAY 2014 1231
58 9.93 +1.7 Clayton VAUGHN 15 MAY 1992 USAUSA 1   Mobile, AL (USA) 08 MAY 2015 1231
58 9.93 +2.0 Marvin BRACY 15 DEC 1993 USAUSA 1   Alexander Stadium, Birmingham (GBR) 07 JUN 2015 1231
58 9.93 +1.9 Kim COLLINS 05 APR 1976 SKNSKN 1f2   Bottrop (GER) 29 MAY 2016 1231
58 9.93 +0.8 Cameron BURRELL 11 SEP 1994 USAUSA 1sf2   Eugene, OR (USA) 07 JUN 2017 1231
58 9.93 +1.6 Christopher BELCHER 29 JAN 1994 USAUSA 1sf3   Eugene, OR (USA) 07 JUN 2017 1231
58 9.93 +0.8 Cravon GILLESPIE 31 JUL 1996 USAUSA 2   Austin, TX (USA) 07 JUN 2019 1231
58 9.93 +1.9 Arthur CISSÉ 29 DEC 1996 CIVCIV 1   Leverkusen (GER) 24 JUL 2019 1231
70 9.94 +0.2 Davidson EZINWA 22 NOV 1971 NGRNGR 1   Linz (AUT) 04 JUL 1994 1227
70 9.94 -0.2 Bernard WILLIAMS 19 JAN 1978 USAUSA 2   Commonwealth Stadium, Edmonton (CAN) 05 AUG 2001 1228
70 9.94 +1.7 Diondre BATSON 13 JUL 1992 USAUSA 2h2   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 25 JUN 2015 1227
70 9.94 +1.4 Andrew FISHER 15 DEC 1991 JAMJAM 2   Moratalaz, Madrid (ESP) 11 JUL 2015 1227
70 9.94 +1.0 Ameer WEBB 19 MAR 1991 USAUSA 2f1   Stadio Olimpico, Roma (ITA) 02 JUN 2016 1227
70 9.94 +0.9 Wayde VAN NIEKERK 15 JUL 1992 RSARSA 1f3   Velenje (SLO) 20 JUN 2017 1227
70 9.94 -0.5 Reece PRESCOD 29 FEB 1996 GBRGBR 2   Alexander Stadium, Birmingham (GBR) 18 AUG 2018 1230
77 9.95 +0.3 Jim HINES 10 SEP 1946 USAUSA 1   Estadio Olímpico, Ciudad de México (MEX) 14 OCT 1968 1224
77 9.95 +0.8 Ben JOHNSON 30 DEC 1961 CANCAN 1f1   Moskva (URS) 09 JUL 1986 1224
77 9.95 +1.9 Olapade ADENIKEN 19 AUG 1969 NGRNGR 1f1   El Paso, TX (USA) 16 APR 1994 1224
77 9.95 +0.8 Vincent HENDERSON 20 OCT 1972 USAUSA 1   Leverkusen (GER) 09 AUG 1998 1224
77 9.95 +1.8 Joshua J. JOHNSON 10 MAY 1976 USAUSA 1   Walnut, CA (USA) 21 APR 2002 1224
77 9.95 +0.6 Deji ALIU 22 NOV 1975 NGRNGR 1   Abuja (NGR) 12 OCT 2003 1224
77 9.95 +1.8 John CAPEL 27 OCT 1978 USAUSA 3   Eugene, OR (USA) 19 JUN 2004 1224
77 9.95 +1.6 Rodney MARTIN 22 DEC 1982 USAUSA 2qf2   Eugene, OR (USA) 28 JUN 2008 1224
77 9.95 -0.8 Trell KIMMONS 13 JUL 1985 USAUSA 1f2   Letzigrund, Zürich (SUI) 19 AUG 2010 1228
77 9.95 +0.9 Mario FORSYTHE 30 OCT 1985 JAMJAM 3   Guidobaldi, Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010 1224
77 9.95 +1.8 Kemar HYMAN 11 OCT 1989 CAYCAY 1h2   Moratalaz, Madrid (ESP) 07 JUL 2012 1224
77 9.95 +1.2 Thando ROTO 26 SEP 1995 RSARSA 2   Pretoria (RSA) 18 MAR 2017 1224
89 9.96 +0.1 Mel LATTANY 10 AUG 1959 USAUSA 1   Athens, GA (USA) 05 MAY 1984 1220
89 9.96 +1.2 Raymond STEWART 18 MAR 1965 JAMJAM 6   Olympic Stadium, Tokyo (JPN) 25 AUG 1991 1220
89 9.96 +0.8 Kareem STREETE-THOMPSON 30 MAR 1973 USAUSA h   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 12 JUN 1997 1220
89 9.96 +1.0 Marc BURNS 07 JAN 1983 TTOTTO 1   Port-of-Spain (TTO) 25 JUN 2005 1220
89 9.96 0.0 Wallace SPEARMON 24 DEC 1984 USAUSA 1   Shanghai (CHN) 28 SEP 2007 1220
89 9.96 +1.4 Harry ADAMS 27 NOV 1989 USAUSA 1h2   Des Moines, IA (USA) 06 JUN 2012 1220
89 9.96 -0.4 Dentarius LOCKE 12 DEC 1989 USAUSA 2   Stade Louis II, Monaco (MON) 19 JUL 2013 1222
89 9.96 +1.4 Chijindu UJAH 05 MAR 1994 GBRGBR 2   Blankers-Koen Stadion, Hengelo (NED) 08 JUN 2014 1220
89 9.96 +1.3 Quentin BUTLER 18 SEP 1992 USAUSA 2h4   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 25 JUN 2015 1220
89 9.96 +1.6 Senoj-Jay GIVANS 30 DEC 1993 JAMJAM 1sf3   Eugene, OR (USA) 08 JUN 2016 1220
89 9.96 +2.0 Aaron BROWN 27 MAY 1992 CANCAN 1h1   Montverde, FL (USA) 11 JUN 2016 1220
89 9.96 +2.0 Joel FEARON 11 OCT 1988 GBRGBR 1   Bedford (GBR) 30 JUL 2016 1220

Women 100m sprint:

Rank Mark WIND Competitor DOB Nat Pos   Venue Date Results Score
1 10.49 0.0 Florence GRIFFITH-JOYNER 21 DEC 1959 USAUSA 1qf1   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 16 JUL 1988 1314
2 10.64 +1.2 Carmelita JETER 24 NOV 1979 USAUSA 1   Shanghai (CHN) 20 SEP 2009 1280
3 10.65 +1.1 Marion JONES 12 OCT 1975 USAUSA 1   SGJ, Johannesburg (RSA) 12 SEP 1998 1277
4 10.70 +0.6 Shelly-Ann FRASER-PRYCE 27 DEC 1986 JAMJAM 1   Kingston (JAM) 29 JUN 2012 1266
4 10.70 +0.3 Elaine THOMPSON 28 JUN 1992 JAMJAM 1   Kingston (JAM) 01 JUL 2016 1266
6 10.73 +2.0 Christine ARRON 13 SEP 1973 FRAFRA 1   Népstadion, Budapest (HUN) 19 AUG 1998 1259
7 10.74 +1.3 Merlene OTTEY 10 MAY 1960 JAMJAM 1   Arena Civica, Milano (ITA) 07 SEP 1996 1257
7 10.74 +1.0 English GARDNER 22 APR 1992 USAUSA 1   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2016 1257
9 10.75 +0.4 Kerron STEWART 16 APR 1984 JAMJAM 1   Stadio Olimpico, Roma (ITA) 10 JUL 2009 1255
9 10.75 +1.6 Sha'Carri RICHARDSON 25 MAR 2000 USAUSA 1   Austin, TX (USA) 08 JUN 2019 1255
11 10.76 +1.7 Evelyn ASHFORD 15 APR 1957 USAUSA 1   Zürich (SUI) 22 AUG 1984 1253
11 10.76 +1.1 Veronica CAMPBELL-BROWN 15 MAY 1982 JAMJAM 1   Mestský Stadion, Ostrava (CZE) 31 MAY 2011 1253
13 10.77 +0.9 Irina PRIVALOVA 22 NOV 1968 RUSRUS 1f2   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 06 JUL 1994 1251
13 10.77 +0.7 Ivet LALOVA-COLLIO 18 MAY 1984 BULBUL 1   Plovdiv (BUL) 19 JUN 2004 1251
15 10.78 +1.0 Dawn SOWELL 27 MAR 1966 USAUSA 1   Provo, UT (USA) 03 JUN 1989 1248
15 10.78 +1.8 Torri EDWARDS 31 JAN 1977 USAUSA 1sf2   Eugene, OR (USA) 28 JUN 2008 1248
15 10.78 +1.6 Murielle AHOURÉ 23 AUG 1987 CIVCIV 1f1   Montverde, FL (USA) 11 JUN 2016 1248
15 10.78 +1.0 Tianna BARTOLETTA 30 AUG 1985 USAUSA 2   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2016 1248
15 10.78 +1.0 Tori BOWIE 27 AUG 1990 USAUSA 3   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2016 1248
20 10.79 0.0 Xuemei LI 05 JAN 1977 CHNCHN 1   Shanghai (CHN) 18 OCT 1997 1246
20 10.79 -0.1 Inger MILLER 12 JUN 1972 USAUSA 2   La Cartuja, Sevilla (ESP) 22 AUG 1999 1246
20 10.79 +1.1 Blessing OKAGBARE-IGHOTEGUONOR 09 OCT 1988 NGRNGR 1   Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 27 JUL 2013 1246
23 10.81 +1.7 Marlies GÖHR 21 MAR 1958 GDRGDR 1   Berlin (GER) 08 JUN 1983 1242
23 10.81 -0.3 Dafne SCHIPPERS 15 JUN 1992 NEDNED 2   National Stadium, Beijing (CHN) 24 AUG 2015 1243
25 10.82 -1.0 Gail DEVERS 19 NOV 1966 USAUSA 1   Estadio Olímpico, Barcelona (ESP) 01 AUG 1992 1245
25 10.82 +0.4 Gwen TORRENCE 12 JUN 1965 USAUSA 2   Paris (FRA) 03 SEP 1994 1239
25 10.82 -0.3 Zhanna BLOCK 06 JUL 1972 UKRUKR 1   Commonwealth Stadium, Edmonton (CAN) 06 AUG 2001 1240
25 10.82 -0.7 Sherone SIMPSON 12 AUG 1984 JAMJAM 1   Kingston (JAM) 24 JUN 2006 1243
25 10.82 +0.9 Michelle-Lee AHYE 10 APR 1992 TTOTTO 1f2   Port-of-Spain (TTO) 24 JUN 2017 1239
30 10.83 +1.7 Marita KOCH 18 FEB 1957 GDRGDR 2   Berlin (GER) 08 JUN 1983 1237
30 10.83 0.0 Sheila ECHOLS 02 OCT 1964 USAUSA 1qf2   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 16 JUL 1988 1237
30 10.83 -1.0 Juliet CUTHBERT 09 APR 1964 JAMJAM 2   Estadio Olímpico, Barcelona (ESP) 01 AUG 1992 1243
30 10.83 +0.1 Katerina THANOU 01 FEB 1975 GREGRE 2sf1   La Cartuja, Sevilla (ESP) 22 AUG 1999 1237
30 10.83 +0.1 Dina ASHER-SMITH 04 DEC 1995 GBRGBR 2f   Khalifa International Stadium, Doha (QAT) 29 SEP 2019 1237
35 10.84 +1.9 Chandra STURRUP 12 SEP 1971 BAHBAH 1f1   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 05 JUL 2005 1235
35 10.84 +1.8 Kelly-Ann BAPTISTE 14 OCT 1986 TTOTTO 1f1   Clermont, FL (USA) 05 JUN 2010 1235
37 10.85 +2.0 Anelia NUNEVA 30 JUN 1962 BULBUL 1h1   Sofia (BUL) 02 SEP 1988 1233
37 10.85 +1.0 Muna LEE 30 OCT 1981 USAUSA 1   Eugene, OR (USA) 28 JUN 2008 1233
37 10.85 +2.0 Barbara PIERRE 28 APR 1987 USAUSA 1sf1   Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 21 JUN 2013 1233
37 10.85 +2.0 Aleia HOBBS 24 FEB 1996 USAUSA 1f1   Baton Rouge, LA (USA) 29 APR 2017 1233
37 10.85 +1.5 Marie-Josée TA LOU 18 NOV 1988 CIVCIV 1   Suhaim bin Hamad Stadium, Doha (QAT) 04 MAY 2018 1233
42 10.86 +0.6 Silke MÖLLER 20 JUN 1964 GDRGDR 1   Potsdam (GDR) 20 AUG 1987 1231
42 10.86 0.0 Diane WILLIAMS 14 DEC 1960 USAUSA 2qf1   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 16 JUL 1988 1231
42 10.86 +1.2 Chryste GAINES 14 SEP 1970 USAUSA 1   Stade Louis II, Monaco (MON) 14 SEP 2003 1231
42 10.86 +2.0 Marshevet HOOKER 25 SEP 1984 USAUSA 2   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 04 JUN 2011 1231
46 10.87 +1.8 Octavious FREEMAN 20 APR 1992 USAUSA 2   Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 21 JUN 2013 1228
47 10.88 +0.4 Lauryn WILLIAMS 11 SEP 1983 USAUSA 2   Zürich (SUI) 19 AUG 2005 1226
48 10.89 +1.8 Katrin KRABBE 22 NOV 1969 GDRGDR 1   Berlin (GER) 20 JUL 1988 1224
48 10.89 0.0 Xiaomei LIU 11 JAN 1972 CHNCHN 2   Shanghai (CHN) 18 OCT 1997 1224
48 10.89 +1.5 Allyson FELIX 18 NOV 1985 USAUSA 5   Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 04 AUG 2012 1224
51 10.90 +1.4 Glory ALOZIE 30 DEC 1977 NGRNGR 1   Laguna (ESP) 05 JUN 1999 1222
51 10.90 +1.8 Shalonda SOLOMON 19 DEC 1985 USAUSA 2f1   Clermont, FL (USA) 05 JUN 2010 1222
53 10.91 +0.2 Heike DRECHSLER 16 DEC 1964 GDRGDR 2   Moskva (URS) 06 JUL 1986 1220
53 10.91 +1.1 Savatheda FYNES 17 OCT 1974 BAHBAH 2   Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 02 JUL 1999 1220
53 10.91 +1.5 Debbie FERGUSON-MCKENZIE 16 JAN 1976 BAHBAH 1   Manchester (GBR) 27 JUL 2002 1220
53 10.91 +1.8 Alexandria ANDERSON 28 JAN 1987 USAUSA 3   Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 21 JUN 2013 1220
53 10.91 -0.2 Rosângela SANTOS 20 DEC 1990 BRABRA 2sf2   Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 06 AUG 2017 1221
58 10.92 0.0 Alice BROWN 20 SEP 1960 USAUSA 2qf2   Indianapolis, IN (USA) 16 JUL 1988 1217
58 10.92 +1.1 D'Andre HILL 19 APR 1973 USAUSA 3   Atlanta, GA (USA) 15 JUN 1996 1217
58 10.92 +0.1 Yulia NESTSIARENKA 15 JUN 1979 BLRBLR 1sf1   Olympic Stadium, Athina (GRE) 21 AUG 2004 1217
58 10.92 +1.4 Jenna PRANDINI 20 NOV 1992 USAUSA 1f1   Walnut, CA (USA) 18 APR 2015 1217
58 10.92 +1.2 Jasmine TODD 23 DEC 1993 USAUSA 3   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 26 JUN 2015 1217
63 10.93 +1.8 Ewa KASPRZYK 07 SEP 1957 POLPOL 1   Grudziadz (POL) 27 JUN 1986 1215
63 10.93 +1.0 Tayna LAWRENCE 17 SEP 1975 JAMJAM 1   Bruxelles (BEL) 30 AUG 2002 1215
63 10.93 +1.8 Jeneba TARMOH 27 SEP 1989 USAUSA 4   Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 21 JUN 2013 1215
66 10.94 +1.0 Carlette GUIDRY 04 SEP 1968 USAUSA 1   New York, NY (USA) 14 JUN 1991 1213
66 10.94 -0.1 Schillonie CALVERT-POWELL 27 JUL 1988 JAMJAM 1h1   Mesa, AZ (USA) 10 JUN 2017 1213
68 10.95 +1.0 Bärbel WÖCKEL 21 MAR 1955 GDRGDR 2   Dresden (GER) 01 JUN 1982 1211
68 10.95 +2.0 Me'Lisa BARBER 04 OCT 1980 USAUSA 3   Carson, CA (USA) 20 MAY 2007 1211
68 10.95 +1.8 Simone FACEY 07 MAY 1985 JAMJAM 1   Boulder, CO (USA) 18 MAY 2008 1211
68 10.95 +1.0 Morolake AKINOSUN 17 MAY 1994 USAUSA 4   Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2016 1211
68 10.95 +1.3 Gina LÜCKENKEMPER 21 NOV 1996 GERGER 1h1   Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 05 AUG 2017 1211
68 10.95 +1.1 Mujinga KAMBUNDJI 17 JUN 1992 SUISUI 1   Zofingen (SUI) 13 JUL 2018 1211
68 10.95 +1.6 Kayla WHITE 24 SEP 1996 USAUSA 2   Austin, TX (USA) 08 JUN 2019 1211
75 10.96 +1.2 Marie-José PÉREC 09 MAY 1968 FRAFRA 1   Dijon (FRA) 27 JUL 1991 1209
75 10.96 +2.0 Galina MALCHUGINA 17 DEC 1962 RUSRUS 2   Moskva (RUS) 22 JUN 1992 1209
75 10.96 +1.0 Eldece CLARKE-LEWIS 13 FEB 1965 BAHBAH 1   Fort-de-France (FRA) 29 APR 2000 1209
75 10.96 +0.4 Muriel HURTIS 25 MAR 1979 FRAFRA 1   Parc des Sports, Annecy (FRA) 22 JUN 2002 1209
75 10.96 +1.9 Kimberlyn DUNCAN 02 AUG 1991 USAUSA 1   Baton Rouge, LA (USA) 13 MAY 2012 1209
75 10.96 +2.0 Aurieyall SCOTT 18 MAY 1992 USAUSA 2sf1   Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 21 JUN 2013 1209
75 10.96 +0.9 Natasha MORRISON 17 NOV 1992 JAMJAM 3sf2   National Stadium, Beijing (CHN) 24 AUG 2015 1209
75 10.96 +1.0 Christania WILLIAMS 17 OCT 1994 JAMJAM 3sf1   Estádio Olímpico, Rio de Janeiro (BRA) 13 AUG 2016 1209
75 10.96 +0.3 Mikiah BRISCO 14 JUL 1996 USAUSA 1   Eugene, OR (USA) 10 JUN 2017 1209
75 10.96 +0.6 Ashley HENDERSON 04 DEC 1995 USAUSA 2   Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 22 JUN 2018 1209
85 10.97 0.0 Angella ISSAJENKO 28 SEP 1958 CANCAN 3   Köln (GER) 16 AUG 1987 1206
85 10.97 +0.2 Mary ONYALI-OMAGBEMI 03 FEB 1968 NGRNGR 1qf2   Gottlieb-Daimler Stadion, Stuttgart (GER) 15 AUG 1993 1206
85 10.97 +0.1 Pauline DAVIS-THOMPSON 09 JUL 1966 BAHBAH 3   Nassau (BAH) 21 JUL 2000 1206
85 10.97 +0.1 LaTasha COLANDER 23 AUG 1976 USAUSA 1   Sacramento, CA (USA) 10 JUL 2004 1206
85 10.97 -0.7 Sanya RICHARDS-ROSS 26 FEB 1985 USAUSA 2   Shanghai (CHN) 28 SEP 2007 1210
85 10.97 +1.8 Mechelle LEWIS 20 SEP 1980 USAUSA 2sf2   Eugene, OR (USA) 28 JUN 2008 1206
85 10.97 +1.2 LaShauntea MOORE 31 JUL 1983 USAUSA 1   Maringa (BRA) 30 MAY 2010 1206
92 10.98 +0.1 Marina ZHIROVA 06 JUN 1963 URSURS 2   Moskva (URS) 17 AUG 1985 1204
92 10.98 +0.8 Angela BAILEY 28 FEB 1962 CANCAN 2   Budapest (HUN) 06 JUL 1987 1204
92 10.98 +1.6 Natalya VORONOVA 09 JUL 1965 URSURS 2qf2   Olympic Stadium, Jamsil, Seoul (KOR) 24 SEP 1988 1204
92 10.98 +0.6 Léonie Myriam MANI 21 MAY 1977 CMRCMR 2f2   Athina (GRE) 11 JUN 2001 1204
92 10.98 +0.5 Carrie RUSSELL 18 OCT 1990 JAMJAM 1f2   Letzigrund, Zürich (SUI) 29 AUG 2013 1204
92 10.98 +2.0 Candace HILL 11 FEB 1999 USAUSA 1   Shoreline, WA (USA) 20 JUN 2015 1204
92 10.98 +1.5 Carina HORN 09 MAR 1989 RSARSA 5   Suhaim bin Hamad Stadium, Doha (QAT) 04 MAY 2018 1204
92 10.98 +1.5 Shania COLLINS 14 NOV 1996 USAUSA 1sf1   Eugene, OR (USA) 07 JUN 2018 1204
92 10.98 +1.6 Twanisha TERRY 24 JAN 1999 USAUSA 3   Austin, TX (USA) 08 JUN 2019 1204

The fastest woman couldn't outrun the 100th fastest man. It's not even close. Insurmountable is the appropriate word.

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I gave examples of it being surmounted. Just because you found one specific example where it wasn’t doesn’t magically render my rebuttal invalid. 

Either way, you’re boring and I’m done. 

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

I gave examples of it being surmounted. Just because you found one specific example where it wasn’t doesn’t magically render my rebuttal invalid. 

I said insurmountable and systematic. My example shows a systematic difference which is typical in athletics. Your examples are in fact the ones which are specific, anecdotal, and not observed at the highest levels of performance.

14 minutes ago, iNow said:

Either way, you’re boring and I’m done. 

Reality can be boring. While your fantasies may be more interesting, nature cannot be fooled.

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5 minutes ago, iNow said:

I gave examples of it being surmounted. Just because you found one specific example where it wasn’t doesn’t magically render my rebuttal invalid. 

Either way, you’re boring and I’m done. 

She does have a point though (the men's running events, not the other stuff). For alot of sportsmen/women, sport is a way out of poverty.

What if you're born female and you're considered a world class athlete, in some sports if you moved over to the men's events you're career would be over, you wouldn't even qualify. That's not a situation that would encourage people to be themselves.

I could be wrong, but their seems to be a lot more male to female athletes entering sports than female to male athletes.

It's something I think needs to be addressed at some point. I don't think sport needs a major overhaul, just a few tweaks here and there.

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23 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

I could be wrong, but their seems to be a lot more male to female athletes entering sports than female to male athletes.

Perhaps you’re wrong. Perhaps you’re correct. These claims can be verified. Do you know how to count? Then count. Return when done.

It’s a simple count based on what’s actually happening in actual reality. You haven’t done that, though. You’ve not cited someone else who’s done that, either.

You’re literally extracting assertions from your colon, arriving at conclusions based on those deposits, and expecting all of us to accept them as valid.

In a word, No. In another word, Stop. 

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19 minutes ago, iNow said:

Return when done.

Sure. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports#Trans_men

at the bottom.

20 minutes ago, iNow said:

and expecting all of us to accept them as valid

Now who's extracting assertions from their colon. 

I have made no assertions, just given opinions.

Quote

An opinion is a judgement, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclusive.

 

29 minutes ago, iNow said:

 

In a word, No. In another word, Stop. 

You need to get of your high horse and stop assuming people who are interested in this have an anti trans agenda.

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2 hours ago, VenusPrincess said:

It definitely isn't simple or science if we make a person's gender dependent on their belief, since belief has nothing to do with science.

You promised to answer my question.

6 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

You need to get of your high horse and stop assuming people who are interested in this have an anti trans agenda.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

If you don't want us to assume you and another have an anti-trans agenda then stop saying things that sound like you do have an agenda.

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11 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

Your link doesn’t support your claim. Your link mentions “notable” athletes, but you claimed that there are “a lot more male to female athletes entering sports than female to male athletes.”

The notable entries are highlights, not exhaustive indices.

Would you like to try again, or take the smarter and simpler path of just acknowledge that I had a valid criticism of your point? Those are your options. 

14 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

You need to get of your high horse

What if my horse truly is larger than yours and I enjoy riding it?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, zapatos said:

 

If you don't want us to assume you and another have an anti-trans agenda then stop saying things that sound like you do have an agenda.

Where have i made anti trans statements?

You need to stop pulling assumptions out your ass, they stink.

11 minutes ago, iNow said:

Your link doesn’t support your claim

Yes it does.

1 hour ago, Curious layman said:

I could be wrong, but their seems to be a lot more male to female athletes entering sports than female to male athletes.

My link doesn't support your accusations and assumptions.

as for the down votes...yawn, you sad bastard.

Edited by Curious layman
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6 minutes ago, zapatos said:

You promised to answer my question.

I did. If a person's gender is dependent upon their belief then the basis for my own gender identity may not be the same as theirs, so your attempt to suss out a "simple and scientific" basis for my own identity is a waste of time as it would not necessarily concede a rejection of a more complicated basis for anyone else's identity if the basis truly is arbitrary. See how confusing things become when we let people define words however they'd like?

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9 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

You need to stop pulling assumptions out your ass, they stink.

Stop assuming I'm talking about you.

3 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

I did. If a person's gender is dependent upon their belief then the basis for my own gender identity may not be the same as theirs, so your attempt to suss out a "simple and scientific" basis for my own identity is a waste of time as it would not necessarily concede a rejection of a more complicated basis for anyone else's identity if the basis truly is arbitrary. See how confusing things become when we let people define words however they'd like?

You're dodging my question and answering  one I didn't ask so you can pontificate. Don't waste my time. If you just want to preach then  say so.

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3 minutes ago, zapatos said:

You're dodging my question and answering  one I didn't ask so you can pontificate. Don't waste my time. If you just want to preach then  say so.

If I answer your question you'll use the basis for my gender identity to claim that I don't believe any other basis is valid. So I won't answer. Is there any other point to your question than to trap me? I have zero faith in your ability to be intellectually honest so I won't even give you that ammunition.

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19 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

Yes it does.

And even if I stipulate this point that your wiki link about this sub population of notable transgendered athletes makes it SEEM like there are more male to female transgendered athletes entering sports than female to male transgendered athletes entering sports, we’re still left with the question of relevance. 

In what way are you suggesting this assertion is relevant? Is it possible for you to answer in a manner that doesn’t rely on preexisting misogynistic assumptions and gender biases?

I don’t believe you can. I’m ready to be proven wrong, but doubt your ability to demonstrate that I am. 

2 minutes ago, VenusPrincess said:

I won't answer.

In fairness, by posting this, you already have. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, iNow said:

preexisting misogynistic assumptions and gender biases?

Try reading the 100m sprint times that were posted.

 

33 minutes ago, iNow said:

In what way are you suggesting this assertion is relevant?

I never made an assertion and never said it was relevant. If it was wrong, then fine, I'm happy to be educated. But what I'm not fine with, is being accused of being misogynistic.

the point of his thread was/is about the future of sport regarding transgenders. My concerns about the safety or fairness isn't my way of saying including them is wrong, i just think sport will need to change in the near future and was interested in how or what that might be.

If you can only interpret my questions or my (admittedly) shitty knowledge on the subject as having an hidden agenda then that's too bad.

I was hoping to learn something interesting*, not defend myself against unfair accusations.

peace.

edit: * which I have.

Edited by Curious layman
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