# How large would a black hole need to be to overcome inflation and pull all matter one day into a big crunch?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Geniuscfcp said:

Looking at the universe through hubble. To me is like watching a flower. We try to imagine the next phase. Unfortunately as we see further distances we have the problem of the images as they are minus the time the light has taken to arrive. Observing a galaxy 4 billion light years away we are seeing the galaxy as it were 4 billion years ago. My thoughts on black holes are that yes they will eventually join together with other black holes. And continue increasing their mass. Eventually all or I'd imagine most of the universe will be nothing more than black holes. I see them pulling on one and other. And eventually they will have nothing left to attract. All the matter in what we know as our universe will be consumed. Say two of the multi black holes are left. They will attract one and other and accelerate towards each other.  And once they collide they start the universe over again. This is the most obvious solution to my idea of the big bang. I have no mathematical equation. Just a simple idea. I welcome Any feedback. Please

In many hundreds of trillions of years hence, the universe will have decayed. Based on current knowledge, BH's will be the last thing to decay via Hawking Radiation.  Again as previously mentioned a BH is not an all purpose vacuum cleaner. The best example given was that if our Sun should magically become a BH, we would need to squeeze the current mass into a diameter of around 6kms. If that happened, only matter that came within 3 kms of the EH of the 6km diameter BH, would be lost to this BH...that is 1.5 Schwarzchild radius.

Another valid point that should be made is that any one that denies the existence of BH's, would then need to explain in another way the incredible evidence that we have for them.

Edited by beecee
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On 10/12/2020 at 8:55 AM, MSC said:

Been having some wild speculative thoughts, but I want to cross examine them with guidance on this question. Depending on the answer, my thoughts may or may not be valid. If there is some kind of known and verified limit on this then my speculation means nothing.

So how large can a black hole potentially get?

What I'm imagining is a Colossus of a black hole, with a strong enough gravitational pull that all matter everywhere is destined to fall into it.

Can such a thing exist?

Correction: Overcome Expansion? May have messed up the terminology a bit.

The observed acceleration of the expansion rate would see any recollapse or big crunch as unlikely...We would seem more likely to see something akin to a "Big Rip"

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On 10/12/2020 at 9:18 AM, Charles 3781 said:

According to current theory, didn't the entire Universe spring from a minute "Black Hole" smaller than a proton. Then expanded outwards. To create trillions of stars, galaxies and so on.

Given the wide vista of prospects allowed by such a theory,  would you rule anything at all out,  as physically impossible?

Not really....The BB/Inflationary model of the evolution of the universe, tells us how the universe/space/time evolved from a hot dense state at t+10-43 seconds. It then explains how our first fundamental particles arose (phase transitions and false vacuum) the formation of atomic nuclei at about 3 minutes post BB, then our first light elements at about 380,000 years post BB. Gravitational collapse after that point, explains the creation of stars, planets etc.

We are as yet only able to speculate about that first 10-43 second from whence our universe evolved. But some reasonable explanations are available which do not require any pre-existing BH.

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• 4 weeks later...
On 3/10/2021 at 4:15 PM, Geniuscfcp said:

Looking at the universe through hubble. To me is like watching a flower. We try to imagine the next phase. Unfortunately as we see further distances we have the problem of the images as they are minus the time the light has taken to arrive. Observing a galaxy 4 billion light years away we are seeing the galaxy as it were 4 billion years ago. My thoughts on black holes are that yes they will eventually join together with other black holes. And continue increasing their mass. Eventually all or I'd imagine most of the universe will be nothing more than black holes. I see them pulling on one and other. And eventually they will have nothing left to attract. All the matter in what we know as our universe will be consumed. Say two of the multi black holes are left. They will attract one and other and accelerate towards each other.  And once they collide they start the universe over again. This is the most obvious solution to my idea of the big bang. I have no mathematical equation. Just a simple idea. I welcome Any feedback. Please

Dimensions of black holes.  As the black holes collect matter. And then other black holes. Billion and Billion of years from now. Because the gravity increases with more matter therfore becoming denser instead of becoming larger they shrink due to the force of gravity acting on itself. So the beginning of the universe makes complete sense and the black hole that began the universe was so dense it wasn't much larger than a proton.  This is of course just theoretical but to me it's seems the most likely.  If there's anyone around in a few Billion years from now. Then let me know if my theory was close of just complete jibberish.  Replying is welcomed.  Thanks Eddie.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Geniuscfcp said:

Dimensions of black holes.  As the black holes collect matter. And then other black holes. Billion and Billion of years from now. Because the gravity increases with more matter therfore becoming denser instead of becoming larger they shrink due to the force of gravity acting on itself. So the beginning of the universe makes complete sense and the black hole that began the universe was so dense it wasn't much larger than a proton.  This is of course just theoretical but to me it's seems the most likely.  If there's anyone around in a few Billion years from now. Then let me know if my theory was close of just complete jibberish.  Replying is welcomed.  Thanks Eddie.

Again, I believe that the acceleration in the expansion rate, and the fact that BH's are not all purpose vacuum cleaners outside of 3 Schwarzchild radius, invalidate your hypothesis..

The best example given was that if our Sun should magically become a BH, we would need to squeeze the current mass into a diameter of around 6kms. If that happened, only matter that came within 3 kms of the EH of the 6km diameter BH, would be lost to this BH...that is 1.5 Schwarzchild radius.

SMBH's of around 20 billion solar masses have been detected.

Edited by beecee
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6 hours ago, Geniuscfcp said:

So the beginning of the universe makes complete sense and the black hole that began the universe was so dense it wasn't much larger than a proton.

Are we then still inside the black hole? Or are you suggesting that some things can indeed escape from black holes?

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20 hours ago, zapatos said:

Are we then still inside the black hole? Or are you suggesting that some things can indeed escape from black holes?

The hypothetical scenario being suggested, imo seems to actually be more akin to a hypothetical White Hole then a BH.

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