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RohanBraga

Has epigenetics shown that all humans are equal?

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Pardon for my ignorance. 

Does the new field of epigenetics show that all humans have the same intelligence??

That is, all humans have same genes related to intelligence (hence all humans are exactly equal in intelligence) but those genes are switched on and off by  epigenetic processes.

So, the the IQ genes were switched on by epigenetics for people who migrated to cold climates increasing their IQs, but were switched off by epigenetic processes for people in the tropics thus making it low.

Has this been shown in epigenetics research??

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There is no "intelligence gene", but there are genes responsible of control of how well brain is feed by nutrients and controlling oxygenation of the brain.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oxygenation+of+brain+intelligence

Nutrition of a women in the prenatal phase, nutrition of a newborn child and later development of human being has influence of intelligence. In countries (or regions of the Earth) where there is food shortage, due to costs and availability, people have worse average IQ.

People to become intelligent require stimulation of the brain, during childhood, and later in life. Again, it is easier for people and families who don't fight every day to survive.

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24 minutes ago, RohanBraga said:

Thanks for your reply. But I can show you this article: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2163484-found-more-than-500-genes-that-are-linked-to-intelligence/

How can brother and sister have different IQs when all environmental factors are the same?

Because the IQ test probably favours one over the other, who may have a different skill set to the one the test is measuring. IQ tests select for people that can do them.

 

Edited by StringJunky

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25 minutes ago, RohanBraga said:

Thanks for your reply. But I can show you this article: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2163484-found-more-than-500-genes-that-are-linked-to-intelligence/

How can brother and sister have different IQs when all environmental factors are the same?

Because, although genes can have an effect on many traits, they very rarely determine those traits. Also, because a brother and sister are not genetically identical (they could differ in all 500 or more genes). Also because the environmental factors will not be the same for both of them (because of difference in sex, age, birth order, personality, etc, etc)

 

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On 12/30/2019 at 4:29 PM, RohanBraga said:

Pardon for my ignorance. 

Does the new field of epigenetics show that all humans have the same intelligence??

That is, all humans have same genes related to intelligence (hence all humans are exactly equal in intelligence) but those genes are switched on and off by  epigenetic processes.

So, the the IQ genes were switched on by epigenetics for people who migrated to cold climates increasing their IQs, but were switched off by epigenetic processes for people in the tropics thus making it low.

Has this been shown in epigenetics research??

Intelligence is polygenetic - means there are a lot of genes that can help or hinder the IQ. Now this genes can be switched on or off by epigenetics - which it makes it all the more difficult to find out why one person is intelligent or not.

A pretty deciding factor however seems to be neither genes nor epigenetics but stress in the here and now.

There has been done a study on the IQ of Indian farmers when they just had their harvest - and their livelihood is halfway secure - and when they are in the period of sowing/waiting where they have least grain left and no security that their investment of sowing will pay off.

There IQ is 15 points higher in the economically secure period than in the period of fear.

Economic inequality is hence the most stupid thing humanity ever invented.

Because as you see it does not only destroy the IQ of many good people. It as well activates the psychopathic genes (you do not automatically become a psychopath even if you have the genes for it). 

The later can ultimately destroy our species because the more unequal and violent our societies become the more useful activated psychopathy is. This gives the psychopaths genes a survival advantage and a self feeding circle is created (positive feedback loop - anyone familiar with complex systems will immediately get a chill on the spine when he hears that term).

I hence fear our species is on genetic auto-destruct since the first really wealthy (and hence really unequal) civilization arrived. 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, HomoSad said:

There has been done a study on the IQ of Indian farmers when they just had their harvest - and their livelihood is halfway secure - and when they are in the period of sowing/waiting where they have least grain left and no security that their investment of sowing will pay off.

 

Interesting, do you mind providing a source?

 

42 minutes ago, HomoSad said:

Because as you see it does not only destroy the IQ of many good people. It as well activates the psychopathic genes (you do not automatically become a psychopath even if you have the genes for it). 

The later can ultimately destroy our species because the more unequal and violent our societies become the more useful activated psychopathy is. This gives the psychopaths genes a survival advantage and a self feeding circle is created (positive feedback loop - anyone familiar with complex systems will immediately get a chill on the spine when he hears that term).

Is that from the same source or speculations added by you?

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9 hours ago, Ghideon said:

Interesting, do you mind providing a source?

 

Is that from the same source or speculations added by you?

The source for the farmer IQ dip is here:

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2013/08/29/poor-concentration-poverty-reduces-brainpower-needed-navigating-other-areas-life (I remebered it wrongly: it is a 13 Point Dip and not 15 Points so good that you asked for the source. I was arguably a bit lazy yeserday because I had to type everything on a Smartphone and that gives me back pain).

The rest is a hypothesis (what you call speculation) based on some scientifically known facts:

Economomical inequal societies are more violent than societies which are just poor and this is one of the most robust findings of social Sciences:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/08/income-inequality-murder-homicide-rates

There is as well this very famous Monkey Experiment that Shows what our natural reaction to inequality normally would be: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

Now in Theory any Society could be very unequal socially but in practice only wealthy societies can be it (one small Group for example has metal weapons and now bullies the other who has not - if no one would know how to make a metal weapon such a problem would never have arived. If all have the same weapons than just numbers of Group members would Count for power diferences and alliances and hence Group number can Change. So one would be carefull of how fare to let the violence escalate).

It is a dificult to test hypothesis but it might be possible to compare the genetic make up of societies which have been economically unequal for very Long time and isolated societies who haven't. Because islands population tend to have some inbreeding and there could be other variables involved in why a particular tribe on a particular Island became very violent or non violent this method is propably not entirely safe.

Better would be if we would know the Genome of a certain area over the last 5000 years - but unluckily it degenerates over time.

The best evidence I have comes from a study of how a tribe of Primates changed over time. At a certain Point the most violent male members of the tribe died because they all did eat meat that was infected by a disease while the peacefull males did not. The tribe became much more peacefull and this sticked over Generations. The biologist said that this has to do with culture mainly (one would not eliminate a polygenetic trait by just eliminating one Generation and one Generation of males) but culture means here that genes of agression where propably not avtivated in the Infant apes once the male tyrants where gone. So this is a possible example of a negative Feedback loop started by a violent Change in genetic composition of the group.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html

To see real changes in polygenetics trait by natural selection it can take several thousands years but what I still try to find out is if psychopathy is really so strongly polygenetic or not. All I know so fare is that six genes are involved but not what that means in Terms of Speed of possible Change ( I have a life science degree but not in genetics).

In my opinion all our economic, religious and political ideologies should be re-evaluated in Terms of our biology - are they in line with our natural biological requirements or are they just a mixture of elite interests - the interest of our most agressive and loud "baboon" bullies together with lofty dreams of the very protected of how we want to be but in reality can't be? Or even worse are this idelogies, as I sugest and in the Long run, solely in the interest of a new species in the making that is much more psychopathic? With the new weapon Technologies (drones, Biopweapons) it's possible that the psychopaths at some Point conciously decide they want to be a new species - and get rid of the old species that they see as inferior. And they do the later, be assured of that.

The non-psychopathic rich that supported psychopathic ideologies (of merciless competition) without recognizing that danger would than be destroyed by what they fianced together with all there Children, Grand children etc. It's said one lives on in ones Children, so...

This is a very Special Scenario but back to everyday reality: What Kind of economy will bring out the best in us and what the worst and over the longer run?

I learned some economics at the University. It is all about mathematics, and a bit About choices but it does not care what a human is really made of. In Germany one says that some scientists live in "an ivory Tower". That means their Research is very esoteric and fare removed from the reality of human life. This is the best description of the continous deniable of biology in economics  I see.

Mabye when facing genetics the People are just not ready to addmit that they are much less masters of themselves than they thought.

 

 

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