Gabriel

A Practical Solution For Every Problem

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8 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I rather doubt that Gabriel's point was directed at you specifically.
His view is that everyone should forgive.
It's like communism- it only works if everyone does it (properly, all the time).


However, regardless of what others do, if you forgive then, at least, you save yourself the effort of maintaining your dislike or bearing a grudge or whatever you call it.

I'd like to add to that by saying my point isn't precisely about forgiveness whatsoever. My point (as stated in my initial paper) is to act off of a premise that provides well-being to you as an individual, and I happened to cite forgiveness as a possible example that may bring that into being should you need to do so in the first place.

Edited by Gabriel

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20 hours ago, Phi for All said:

This must be one of those times when you redefine everyday words to suit your argument. Sometimes withholding forgiveness is NOT holding a grudge! Your position is more unclear.

'Forgiving' doesn't have a set definition/meaning.

Edited by Itoero

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13 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I rather doubt that Gabriel's point was directed at you specifically.
His view is that everyone should forgive.
It's like communism- it only works if everyone does it (properly, all the time).


However, regardless of what others do, if you forgive then, at least, you save yourself the effort of maintaining your dislike or bearing a grudge or whatever you call it.

 

I realise that.

9 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

It's like communism- it only works if everyone does it (properly, all the time).

A content populace is more likely to work.

28 minutes ago, Itoero said:

'Forgiving' doesn't have a set definition/meaning.

yes does it does.

 
Quote

 

forgiving
/fəˈɡɪvɪŋ/
adjective
 
  1. ready and willing to forgive.
    "Taylor was in a forgiving mood"
    synonyms: merciful, lenient, compassionate, pitying, magnanimous, humane, clement, mild, soft-hearted, forbearing, tolerant, easy-going, indulgent, accommodating, understanding, placable
    "Oliver Cromwell was not renowned for his forgiving nature"
       
    • (of a thing) easy or safe to deal with.
      "snow is a forgiving surface on which to fall"

 

    •  
    •  

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1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

yes does it does.

I've many time been asked 'Can you forgive me?' while there was imo nothing to forgive. In such a case I forgave while there was no grudge.

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31 minutes ago, Itoero said:

I've many time been asked 'Can you forgive me?' while there was imo nothing to forgive. In such a case I forgave while there was no grudge.

2

Is that different from I forgave while there was a grudge?

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1 hour ago, Itoero said:

I've many time been asked 'Can you forgive me?' while there was imo nothing to forgive. In such a case I forgave while there was no grudge.

So then forgiveness isn't something you need to do to become a biologically healthy person at the moment. Some people experience chronic health problems due to their unwillingness to forgive (including my family) and my example was more directed at them then somebody who doesn't have much of a problem with forgiving someone. 

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3 hours ago, Itoero said:

'Forgiving' doesn't have a set definition/meaning.

Not with you it doesn't. You have a history of broadening definitions to suit what you feel like saying. Here, you seem to be saying "Sometimes you can forgive without forgetting, but that's not holding a grudge", which is a great example of how your treatment of words dilutes their meaning and impact wrt understanding and clarity. I don't know whether you're mistreating "forgiving" or "grudge", but you're definitely working outside most people's interpretations. 

So what are the consequences of your forgiveness, or lack thereof? If I stole your cellphone, you wouldn't forgive me, but you also say you wouldn't hold a grudge. What would you do? If I gave it back, apologized, and you still didn't forgive me, my observation would be that you're harboring some deep-seated feelings of resentment.

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18 minutes ago, Gabriel said:

So then forgiveness isn't something you need to do to become a biologically healthy person at the moment. Some people experience chronic health problems due to their unwillingness to forgive (including my family) and my example was more directed at them then somebody who doesn't have much of a problem with forgiving someone. 

It can be necessary for your health, but not for everyone. A grudge doesn't necessary has an influence on your health. When my cellphone got stolen, I of course memorized it, but the memory has no influence on my health.

11 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

You have a history of broadening definitions to suit what you feel like saying.

I've never done that. That's just how you misinterpret things.

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10 minutes ago, Itoero said:

When my cellphone got stolen, I of course memorized it,

Which part?

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25 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

So what are the consequences of your forgiveness, or lack thereof? If I stole your cellphone, you wouldn't forgive me, but you also say you wouldn't hold a grudge. What would you do? If I gave it back, apologized, and you still didn't forgive me, my observation would be that you're harboring some deep-seated feelings of resentment.

When a cellphone gets stolen it's most of the times no by someone you know. You remember how and why it got stolen and change your behavior so it doesn't happen again.

8 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Which part?

The display.

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3 minutes ago, Itoero said:

The display.

 

Well, we all display. Is that forgiveness?

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21 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Well, we all display. Is that forgiveness?

I memorized the display of de cellphone because it was a big display. It is possible to forgive, and let go of a grudge, but still remember the situation so that you don’t get into the situation again.  If you harbor hard feelings to maintain the grudge that means the forgiveness that you may have thought you offered hasn’t been fully given.  It might be that for many people forgiveness is a personal  'thing' and unrelated to saying 'I forgive you'. Maybe for many people a grudge slowly disappears.

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9 minutes ago, Itoero said:

I memorized the display of de cellphone because it was a big display. It is possible to forgive, and let go of a grudge, but still remember the situation so that you don’t get into the situation again.  If you harbor hard feelings to maintain the grudge that means the forgiveness that you may have thought you offered hasn’t been fully given.  It might be that for many people forgiveness is a personal  'thing' and unrelated to saying 'I forgive you'. Maybe for many people a grudge slowly disappears.

2

the thread answers.

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On 11/13/2018 at 8:27 AM, Itoero said:

When a cellphone gets stolen it's most of the times no by someone you know. You remember how and why it got stolen and change your behavior so it doesn't happen again.

Knowing how you could have prevented an undesirable situation after it's happened and changing how you act to prevent that situation from happening again is part of how we grow as people. For example, I wrote this paper, and I learned that I am fundamentally vague and unclear with how I communicate my ideas to other people, so I will try to change how I communicate so people can understand me clearly.

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:56 PM, Gabriel said:

he goal of this paper is to provide a pragmatic solution to every problem we experience on our planet today.

The main problem imo is that you're goal is to provide a pragmatic solution for all people which can't work. (also not 'in theory')

People deal very different with the concepts you mentioned depending on their place in the hierarchy of needs. The hierarchy is not proven but the main concept is imo correct.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

First some 'facts', this is from google:

"Nearly 1/2 of the world's population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty. According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty."

"When you answer this quiz, Hunger Notes will make a donation to assist people in crisis. The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization estimates that about 815 million people of the 7.6 billion people in the world, or one in ten, were suffering from chronic undernourishment in 2016."

When you struggle to fulfill the basic physiological needs then spending time with your children, forgiving people, travelling…(and the other stuff you mentioned) then people can't deal with those concepts in a way you find logic. I don't know where you live but many/most people live very different then you do.

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor hierarchy of needs

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1 hour ago, Itoero said:

The main problem imo is that you're goal is to provide a pragmatic solution for all people which can't work. (also not 'in theory')

People deal very different with the concepts you mentioned depending on their place in the hierarchy of needs. The hierarchy is not proven but the main concept is imo correct.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

First some 'facts', this is from google:

"Nearly 1/2 of the world's population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty. According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty."

"When you answer this quiz, Hunger Notes will make a donation to assist people in crisis. The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization estimates that about 815 million people of the 7.6 billion people in the world, or one in ten, were suffering from chronic undernourishment in 2016."

When you struggle to fulfill the basic physiological needs then spending time with your children, forgiving people, travelling…(and the other stuff you mentioned) then people can't deal with those concepts in a way you find logic. I don't know where you live but many/most people live very different then you do.

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor hierarchy of needs

I see what you mean. What I should do, I suppose, is work on a different scale. Perhaps I should focus on indivudal countries instead of the entire planet, that way each solution will be more precise and effective then a premise that merely says "Do what is right."

Thank you for that, I appreciate it :)

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