Tom O'Neil Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) I have been looking at folio 49v for some time now. But, tonight I just stared at it till I came up with a solution and my cipher is the solution to the VMS with a 100% result. As most of you know there is a number column to the left of the glyph column which reads 1-5 and then the glyph column which descends next to the paragraphs. Using proper math associated with my cipher for these glyph’s in the tabbed margins they add up together to be 156 which is the same for the vord count on this page. The total in the first column is 73 and the next column for the other two paragraphs is 83. So to my pleasure there was a system to the madness on this page. Here is a link to the actual VMS document in question. https://www.jasondavies.com/voynich/#f49v/0.44/0.625/3.20 Edited November 5, 2016 by Tom O'Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Once again, the value of this thread is entirely decided by your ability to explain your method. Last time, you didn't even try. If you don't do better here the thread will almost certainly end up getting locked- and you might find yourself getting banned. So- which is it to be? The choice is yours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom O'Neil Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Once again, the value of this thread is entirely decided by your ability to explain your method. Last time, you didn't even try. If you don't do better here the thread will almost certainly end up getting locked- and you might find yourself getting banned. So- which is it to be? The choice is yours. Here is my write up describing my methed: Explanation Method Voynich Numerology.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Is that the same thing you posted earlier- where it didn't fit the bill as an explanation? If so, why did you think it would be better received now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrKrettin Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I for one fail totally to understand the explanation in the pdf file. Either it's me being thick, or it is not an explanation, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I for one fail totally to understand the explanation in the pdf file. Either it's me being thick, or it is not an explanation, or both. Spoiler alert- the problem isn't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom O'Neil Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Methodology of a Number System Cipher to the VMS First off, I believe that the Voynich Manuscript is a cipher, but not in natural language form (meaning the glyph’s are not arranged as so). I truly believe there is text, a book or books that were used to produce the manuscript, but in the art of numbers. Yes if you interchange the glyph’s you can get the same result and therefore make the script seem as a major null as a natural language. So it would seem to violate frequency analysis to equate to an alphabet. The cipher in number form adds a natural defense at trying to decode the main body of the text; by the premise of a number system in which I believe John Dee would be so inclined to do. John Dee used a number system in which he associated divination to letters as numbers. Yes I even attempted to decode several paragraphs from 16th century Bibles. Although not in welsh which violates the main thrust of the language that I propose it is in Welsh! And it was not verse by verse so that was a failure. However, if you attack the Voynich Manuscript from a theme and imagery perspective along with a sound cipher many words have come forth which represent its meaning. The cipher which I came up with is a number system which letters equal numbers. I approached this decoding method in the Voynich Manuscript from the most intricate approach attributed to the Zodiac in folio 67r2. Furthermore this became the base of operations for my cipher in which I added upon. This should answer the (Strange) question. However Mr. Strange you have to line up the Zodiac on top of creating cipher for that to work. If you can present one using a number system in a different language; I would like to see it and I will allow 1 Zodiac sign to be a different language to be fair. Every attempt in history here has been met with failure; but I noticed a glyph equivalents to the (scorpion) and, (craf, i.e. garlic) equaled a 1 in along with the code I embraced for this image of craf in f99r; as the Voynich Glyph’s which I associated to have number equivalents added up to a 1. oHae89 o=6, H=8, a=1, e=5, 8=8, 9=9 } All add up and equal a 1 This cipher I have found which I’m certain is used within the Voynich Manuscript has confounded the language to numbers. It does not follow order of a natural language which has kept it secrets for so long. The words which I have found are in Welsh would be 85 out of a hundred. And they correlate to the imagery and themes. The reason I have 15 words outside of welsh is attributed to known astronomy words in which John Dee would have known. John Dee also annotated a Welsh to English Dictionary (1)! I discount the, “Boke of Jona”, because it was just an attempt in which it produced failure from not following verse by verse and its outside of the Welsh Language. So in a sense I’m just using Welsh with astronomical and astrological slight imbalances to the overall language. That is fair! I’m certainly not using every European Language. 1) The facts are the images and themes tell a story on their own.2) The Voynich word has to add up and equal the Welsh, English or astronomy equivalent word3) Translate that in which the cipher meets the images head on.4) And the theme words correlate to the whole picture; I would say no this is not just a coincidence from 1-9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 The system is perfectly clear. That the system is purely subjective guesswork and has no objective repeatability is also plain from the explanation. Why Tom came up with it is less clear but he attempts to explain it. Nothing in Tom's explanation detracts from the assertion that Tom's system is complete rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Methodology of a Number System Cipher to the VMS First off, I believe that the Voynich Manuscript is a cipher, but not in natural language form (meaning the glyph’s are not arranged as so). I truly believe there is text, a book or books that were used to produce the manuscript, but in the art of numbers. Science doesn't care what you believe, it cares what you can provide evidence for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrmDoc Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Tom, I don't do downloads from potentially untrustworthy sources but I did take some time to familiarize myself with the subject and I reviewed your comments and illustrations. If I understand correctly, your cypher of the Voynich manuscript is based on the work of John Dee whose cyphers link letters to numbers. To validate this aspect of your cypher, you have to establish how John Dee's work may have contributed to the Voynich's production. Was he the author of the manuscript and do you have proof other than your intuition...or, do you have credible evidence suggesting that the manuscript's true author was familiar with and using John Dee's cyphers? It's my understanding that the author of the manuscript was never established; therefore, that latter question may be impossible to answer. Secondly, you are associating specific letters and symbols with specific numbers. How did you arrive at that association? How did you establish the order of those letters and symbols? Are those letters and symbols from a work established and deciphered prior to the Voynich manuscript? It's my understanding that the Voynich script is unique to its text and not found in any other manuscript of the era. So, how did you establish that the Voynich script was indeed an alphabet of ordered and defined letters and symbols rather than random artistic musings? Thirdly, if I understand further, Italy appears to be the establish origin of the manuscript yet your cypher appears to render translations in Welsh. How do you account for that incongruity? Have you deciphered complete and coherent passages of text in Welsh or any other language? Finally, how does this... o=6, H=8, a=1, e=5, 8=8, 9=9 ...equal 1? If I understand numerology correctly, 6 + 8 + 1+ 5 + 8 + 9 = 27 and 2+7 = 9. If your sincere interest involves a serious discussion of your work, my further participation in this discussion depends on your direct and concise answers to my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 ! Moderator Note What part of do not reintroduce this topic did you not understand. Don't do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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