Bettina

It's a convienent way for Hezbollah to feed civilians propaganda about Israel and the 'west'. Hopefully, that should change.

A real life Jekyll and Hyde. A terrorist by any other name is a ....

Bee

Mooeypoo' date='

I agree with most of what you say, I was responding to Bettina's comment that "Hezbollah didn't win anything that they didn't already have", which IMO is simply not true. I definitely agree that both sies lost a lot, but I also think there is a big difference in what each side lost.

 

And once again please don't assume criticism of Israel = support for Hezbollah, because this is simply not the case.[/quote']

 

I look at "winning" as a good thing. Winning the lotto, winning free gas, winning the senior pagent. Winning, by starting a war and destroying the country you live in because you chose to hide among civilians is not winning.

 

Hezbollah already had the undying support from their friends Iran, Syria, and every other terrorist group already, so what did they "win". I just don't see it.

 

Israel, like I said, gained monitors on their border. Much stronger than they had before, and thats a good thing.

 

Sorry we don't agree....

 

Bee

Bee, I will try to help.

You did. Thanks for those links. Lots of stuff over my head, but thanks.

Bee

I would still like an idea of the percentage of scientists that believe in the cyclic model... Anyone?

Bee

Hezbollah will never disarm. The type of rockets it used to start the conflict in the first place will be replaced by even longer range types with bigger grenades attached to them and they will get them for free from Syria and Iran.

No amount of good will from Israel, now, in the past, or in the future, will stop the next war by states who wish to end (and openly state that) Israels existance....period.

Israel is what will eventually happen to all civilized states/countries if we let terrorism win so, unlike some posters here, I will state again that Hezbollah didn't win anything that they didn't already have and Israel just bought itself some time by pushing those small rockets farther back.

What is needed is a very strong U.N. composed of a very strong mulitnational force who has the power to investigate and place blame on the group who starts the fighting. Something that will never happen.

If I was Israel, I would get ready to defend itself again and soon.

Bee

Are you talking about this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model

 

This describes the "colliding branes" model' date=' at least how I heard it described[/quote']

 

Yes. only its said better in "Fabric of the Cosmos" where I read it. Some times I thing theoretical physicists are just too cool. even though they can't prove anything.

 

I'm waiting for "The elegant universe" from Amazon to get here...

 

Martin....

 

I have two files for you attached. Its easier for me to do it this way than quote and miss something. I'll get back when I read more.

 

Bee

Bee' date=' do you have the New Scientist issue #2564 that has this editorial?

I only can get a sample of it on the web

 

"Editorial: [b']Loop quantum gravity increases its pull[/b]

12 August 2006

Magazine issue 2564

String theory's main rival has earned the right to be taken seriously - it could be the most profound scientific generalisation of all time

THE accepted idea of matter is that it is made up of minuscule particles guided by quantum force fields. This is already far removed from the common-sense view that matter is, well, just chunks of stuff. If that seems hard enough to take, then brace yourself for another step away from common sense.

 

Theoretical physicists working in the rarefied field of loop quantum gravity have developed a way to describe elementary particles as merely tangles in space (see "Out of the void"). If they are right, it could be the most profound scientific generalisation of all time, in which everything in the universe emerges from a simple network of relationships, with no fundamental building blocks at all.

 

Up to now, loop quantum gravity has seemed like a poor relation of string theory, which for years has been the most popular route to a "theory of everything" in which all ..."

 

If you have the issue and find anything noteworthy from that editorial you want to quote from it, I would be interested.

Hi Martin...Yep... thats the copy I just received but have only quickly scanned it. I will get back to you on the rest of that editorial.

It has another neat article on the "Adept" probe looking for Dark Energy and Lee Smolins "Out of the Void" article.

Check back tomorrow morning.

Bee

I just received the latest copy of New Scientist and they had an article on the cyclic universe model (my favorite model). What I want to know is the percentage of scientists who believe in that model vs the other models.

I've been reading about branes that collide every trillion years too and got to wondering about who believes in what....

Thanks

Bettina

My housemate's dog (Bassett Hound) keeps eating plants in the garden.

 

Plants!

 

I am assuming this is due to some kind of dietary deficiency at the moment... anyone had any experience with this?

When my dog has an upset stomach or other digestive problem, her tail will be pulled in close to her body. When I see that, I know she doesn't feel well and when I let her out and she will immediately start chewing grass. She doesn't do that at any other time so I've learned the clues. I also give her a Tums and that helps too.

If its a severe stomach problem she will eat enough to throw up and then feels better otherwise she will eat just enough and then feels ok...

However, some dogs just like to eat plants and grass so you have to check the dogs habits.

If it is indeed her stomach, check her dog food or try another brand. That failing, you can call a vet.

Bee

You are an amazing person Mooey. Those photos are not only awful but a reminder of what kind of world Israel and other civilized unions are living in... and of the people who don't want to do anything to help make it better.

Sometimes I really hate this world and the thought of any kind of God.

Bee

Israel won hands down. To say that terrorists won anything is (censored by me).

Bee

\applause

Expected response from you. I'm glad I stopped taking you seriously.

Bee

This makes me angry so I am giong to say exactly what I think - what a load of emotive BS!! Don't misquote me and don't tell me what I think:mad:

 

If I had posted something like this I would probably have got a warning from a moderator. In my very honest opinion' date=' I think differnt rules apply to different people. I probably will get one now anyway.

 

 

If your going to accuse me of having a case closed mindset, then you should probably get your facts straight. The current action in Lebanon is against Hezbollah (or Hizbullah), [b']not Hamas[/b]. The two are completely separate entities, but you seem to use them interchangably (your not the only one). Hezbollah has not been involved in suicide bombings for at least seven years. To suggest that the present action in Lebanon is to protect themselves against "their schoolbuses and commuter busses(sic) full of CIVILIANS" getting blown up in suicide attacks is a strawman.

 

 

To my knowledge, there is no evidence that Hezbollah (not Hamas) is targeting woman and children in particular, rather than civilians in general. If you can provide some I will gladly stand up to be corrected, otherwise this is just another emotive strawman.

 

Let me get this quite clear, I have never called Israel a "terrorist state" and I have never suggested that I have an answer to the problems in the Middle East. I have never suggested that I support Hezbollah in any way shape or form.

 

 

This really made me p*ss*d off, and this is where I believe you should of been warned. It is quite clear you are suggesting that Bud. and I support terrorism. I can't speak for Bud., but I do not support terrorism, and have never suggested in this forum that I support terrorism, and never will. It is a logical fallacy to assume that criticism of Israel=support for Hezbollah. I made this quite clear in my post:

 

As for having a case closed mindset, I would suggest to you that you have a similar mindset in reference to Islam, and this may be why you are so vehemently opposed to any criticism of Israel:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say it is fairly clear who has the case closed mindset.

Tetrahedrite...

I went back and re-read your post 216 and I owe you an apology. Your right, I let my emotions dictate without thinking out what you said. It was clear that you don't consider Israel a terrorist state and I don't think that of you. I'm sorry for getting you ticked off. You didn't deserve that one from me.

As far as warnings go, you don't deserve one, and as for me, I hope I'm treated like everyone else. I don't mind getting slapped if I have it coming because how am I going to learn anything if I don't. Again... I'm sorry.

In this link you provided http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah I found this to back up what I think about that terrorist group...

Although Hezbollah has denounced attacks on Western civilians, it makes an exception in the case of Israel. Nasrallah stated that "in occupied Palestine there is no difference between a soldier and a civilian

About Hezbollah and Hamas being different entities I don't agree. They both want Israel destroyed so that puts them in the same bottle as far as what has been discussed in this thread. Instead of shooting rockets at soldiers, they send them into the poplulated cities for the sole purpose of killing civilians.

And as far as the rest of your post... your correct. I do think that way about Islam because its what I see in the news and read in the Koran. I will never apologize for any statement I've made against the Islamic religion. Its a vile, militant religion with a broad agenda. I defend Israel and proud of it.

Bettina

You know what I wish?

 

I wish the world had a smart smartest smarter bomb. One that goes only' date=' and directly to where you point it. One that not only never misses, it never causes any damage to any of the surroundings. Only to it's specific target.

 

~moo[/quote']

 

One thing for sure. The terrorists would not use them. They want a "smart bus bomb" or a "smart market bomb" or a " smart mall or school bomb" but never a "bud bomb"...

 

Bee

....I also strongly agree with budullewraagh's sentiments in that one group committing attrocities does not justify attrocities being committed in retalliation, under any circumstances. One step forward, two steps back, thats all it is.

Really, then what should Israel do when their schoolbuses and commuter busses full of CIVILIANS gets blown up by hezballah and hamas. Mind you....they target women and children first. So, you can join budullewraagh, who calls Israel a terrorist state, without telling us what should Israel do.

I'm not out to prove either of you wrong because you both have a case closed mindset. The real terrorists love both of you I think..... Sad.

Bee

budullewraagh

I feel sorry for you. You hate war.... and so do I.... but you have no way of justifying self defense. Do you feel the same about the U.S. in WWII ? Do you feel that war was worth winning?

Bee

I didn't. Please re-read my post.

Not directly, but you did make the implication. I re-read most of your posts in this thread, and to be honest, it makes me wonder whose side your really on.

Bee

What is it you don't understand' date=' I did give you an answer what they should do now. The results may certainly not be seen until long from now but that I thought were understood.

 

Do I think the war could have been avoided, yes but that is another question although related cause what I'm looking for is active measurements for avoiding the next war. This is what I mean by Israel having played out the military card. A big military is not enough of a deterrent for these types of conflicts.[/quote']

 

I did understand. I was referring to your first question in your earlier posts that you never answered. The war could not have been avoided because rockets were being fired into Israel from Lebanon. With Hamas on one side and then Hezbollah coming into play on the other was too dangerous to leave unchecked. Complaining to the U.N. and waiting for an answer would have taken months from my short experience. Israel stands alone in this world and they rightfully fear for their existance. Doing what they did was the only thing that gets the U.N. to wake up.

 

Your second question on what Israel should do now is easy. Pack up, leave, and let the U.N. handle Lebanon per the agreements. You have to at least do that but I don't believe the next war can be avoided. Fanatical Islam has no rules but the sword. Thats all they know.

 

Bee

Sorry for the delay' date=' been away fishing

 

It's true that Lebanon and Syria stringently adhere to the boycott but they are the only ones in the Arab League and I also wrote that Israel would include trade in the peace agreements (with all parties in the now ongoing conflict) not just for economic purposes but for the future protection of it's people. I think Israel has played out it's military card, now it's time they also use their wits with a full spectrum of measures.[/quote']

 

Except for very minimal trade between Egypt and Jordan who have peace treaties with Israel, I know of no other Arab states trading with Israel. No matter what measures Israel takes they will still be hated just because they live there.

 

By Israel playing that military card, it got what it wanted... a U.N. army of peacekeepers to patrol the Lebanon/Israel border. This will make it harder for Hezbollah to launch rocket attacks against Israel without bringing condemnation from the U.N. security council.

 

I know I kept asking you "what should Israel do now" and you failed to give me an answer but its only because I have no good answer myself....

 

I hope you let those fish go after you caught them.

 

Bettina

Surely, if anything, that reinforces what I said?

I must have missed something. I don't get what budullewraagh is talking about, I can't find your post that he referenced, and I don't get the meaning of what you just said.

I must be tired.

Bee

Freedom for who?

 

If someone makes a choice for you' date=' you cannot truly be said to be free to choose.

 

Perhaps it was the meddling itself that was resented, rather than the intended results.[/quote']

 

Could be, but not in all cases. Ask the once professional women in Afghanistan if the Taliban life was their choice. I read about women doctors who suddenly were stripped of their title, forced to wear a head to toe burka, and imprisoned in their homes. Their daughters forced out of school after eight years old... All because they were female.

 

Read the link below...especially section 10.

 

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/afgan/afgtoc.htm

 

I'm glad we meddled and I hope we keep on meddling to stop the spread of Islamofacists.

 

Bettina

All I'm saying is that there has been plenty of public debate which emphasized the notion that "the terrorists hate us because they hate our freedom' date='" whether or not it is explicitly said that this is the only reason. I distinctly remember more than one Bush speach to that effect, and (believe it or not) I do listen to conservative talk radio sometimes, and that's the [i']only[/i] reason they ever mention at all.

 

However, I think it's quite fair to say that that is silly. mooeypoo, all those things you mention, about how they see our capitalism and our secularism as decadent and immoral - yes, yes they do. That's why they do all they can to establish oppressive, Taliban-like theocracies in the Islamic world. But there's a big difference between that and going outside the Islamic world to attack others. They attack us not because we're a free society, but because they see us as meddling in their society. They'd rather be insulated in their own little medieval world, not having to deal with infidels like us at all. Sweden has nothing to do with them, and hence, they couldn't care less how many Swedes doom themselves to eternal torment.

IMO they were already isolated. What they feared, is that the wests "meddling" might interfere or undermine their oppressive, Taliban-like way of life. That "meddling" is called...freedom....and they hate us for it.

I will try to find the link that reported a top Taliban official quoting that freedom was evil and should be destroyed at its root.

Bettina

Which is why our school system is failing....

Bee

Not quite sure I get it. It's a couple of guys stacking up some rocks and then knocking them over....

....sigh.....

You need to see the artistry in it. Its very very hard to make that film look the way it does. Even when making it "forward" you had to make your moves different. It took a lot of work and retrys.

Hard to explain...

Bee

Israel is hated because it's perceived as an occupying nation that has no right to be there. The United States is hated because it supports Israel' date=' and generally meddles in the Islamic world. If they have other reasons I'm not aware of them.

 

mooeypoo, you posted as I was typing. I don't think you're completely right about that. I don't think it's really about democracy at all. Even Iran is, after all, at least nominally democratic, and Hamas is an elected government. Not that we should take anything Osama Bin Laden says at face value, but in his last video he did have a point: "You say we attack you because we hate your freedom, but if that was true, then why do we not attack, say, Sweden?"[/quote']

 

I didn't think Iran was democratic. Its leader is just a puppet of the religious mullahs who really run things. The people may have voted in the president but who voted in the Mullahs?

 

Just wondering...

 

Bee