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Let's bloody hope not! I remember before I flew to Panama in 1974, having vaccinations for Yellow Fever, Smallpox, Typhoid and Cholera.

That certainly is the furthest thing from my mind. OK, point taken. Accepted. Personally I don't know enough about all the alternatives, to accurately have an opinion on which is best. [I have also heard and reject some of the noise that was once topical about the application and use of wind farms] Solar power panels [of which I have had installed for 2 years] also have "minor" cons [dirt etc] but thankfully I am still able to access them for their yearly clean up. Thanks for your contribution, even if I perhaps did misconstrue some of your points.

Yeah, but realitically, it would be a Kerr metric BH, and if one could judge one's trajectory to pass at the polar regions, and the exact centre, one should pass through the ring singularity unharmed, to where though is anyone's guess! 😉

Actually now two known rioters from the rabble are now known to be infected, both in hospital, and presumably both regretting their stupidity and starting to think critically, if they survive that is. https://www.9news.com.au/national/melbourne-protests-second-person-tests-positive-to-covid19/18309d32-2bd0-4012-b2bf-596dc5e18759 "A second person who took to the streets of Melbourne CBD to protest last week has been confirmed as having COVID-19. The discovery comes after a person who was hospitalised with the virus on Thursday was found to have participated in the illegal demonstration on Wednesday. COVID-19 Commander Jeroen Weimar said a man in his 30s in Geelong had since tested positive to COVID-19 after attending the protests in Melbourne CBD on Tuesday". As I said, many industries including teaching, health, airline, hardware, and now building industry, are making it mandatory for their employees to get vaccinated, irrespective of any 80 or 90% vaccination rates. That also may force some to think critically about their stupidity. Well said. A scenario I took extreme umbrage at was the following woman...I won't call her a mother, far too kind.

It is even more disappointing that you fail to see That all I have done [without any qualifications or opinions] is recognise the "good pont" made by studiot re waste, and what I could find on that particular issue. yes there is...full stop. And that's what the article also concerns itself with. Plus I wouldn't really be telling the stupid vehicle recyclers that do put them where they aint supposed to be, that they don't put them where they aint supposed to be...really! Yes, as suggested by the article https://publications.csiro.au/publications/publication/PIcsiro:EP208519/SQbattery lithium/RP1/RS25/RORECENT/STsearch-by-keyword/LISEA/RI2/RT72 I believe my position on this issue should be clear. Afterall, it was my OP and I have reiterated many times that we should be doing the utmost scientifically in introducing all forms of clean alternate forms of energy and recognising that every system has its stengths and weaknesses, and research must continue to iron out those weaknesses and promote the strengths.

Meanwhile, in the Premier State of NSW.................. Unvaccinated residents across New South Wales are likely to be restricted from sporting events, pubs and restaurants until 90 per cent of the population has received both jabs. The state government is finalising its road map for 80 per cent, which is expected to be revealed this week, but some ministers divided over when unvaccinated residents should get freedoms. The first restrictions are set to ease for the fully vaccinated on October 11, when NSW is predicted to hit the 70 per cent mark double-dose milestone. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

https://plus.maths.org/content/galileo-and-science-deniers Galileo and the Science Deniers by Mario Livio: The title is the name of a book by Mario Livio [have heard of him somewhere] and an account on the life and times of Galileo, and a review of book, Galileo and Mario. I will be making an effort to obtain it as my next read. The followings are extracts from the review that gelled with me.... in a famous quote from Galileo: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." It took a long time, but today Galileo has been vindicated even in the eyes of the church. In 1992 Pope John Paul II officially declared that he was right. There's an obvious lesson for scientists here: help the public know about your work and understand it. "Scientists owe it to the public [to communicate their work] because much of science is funded by the public," says Livio, "In addition, science is an integral part of human culture. In the same way we study Shakespeare, we should also know about science." Indeed, as Livio demonstrates in the last chapter of the book, the schisms we perceive today, between science and the humanities, or between science and religion, or science and spirituality, is something Galileo himself would have found abhorrent. We are learning about epidemiology and the role of maths in it, about the biology of viruses, and the scientific methods used to develop drugs and vaccines, which can't be cut short no matter how urgent the need. We are also learning that, in contrast to popular belief, science is as much about dealing with uncertainty as it is about producing certainty. "The main message I wanted to convey is that we need to listen to science. We have to find ways of stopping arguments from politics, or religion, from interfering with the interpretation and progress of science." Galileo's story, apart from providing welcome entertainment for boring lockdown evenings, serves as a potent reminder of the importance of freedom of thought, and of just how precious our gift for understanding the world through science really is.

A nice flexible consitution if I may say so. Nice to see.

Good point.................. https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/energy/Energy-storage/Battery-recycling A serious waste problem As demand grows for energy storage and batteries, so too does the amount of lithium-ion battery waste. The following statistics paint a picture of the challenge: only 2 per cent of Australia's annual 3,300 tonnes of lithium-ion battery waste is recycled this waste is growing by 20 per cent per year and could exceed 100,000 tonnes by 2036 if recycled, 95 per cent of components can be turned into new batteries or used in other industries by comparison, of the 150,000 tonnes of lead-acid batteries sold in 2010, 98 per cent were recycled, and the majority of Australia's battery waste is shipped overseas, and the waste that remains left in landfill, leading to a potential fires and environmental contamination. more at link......................

The only path I see as obvious, is taking your politics and philosophical rhetoric with a grain of salt. As per the subject of this thread and the heading, is obviously a start at school, the science fairs and such https://jmss.vic.edu.au/news/latest/australian-science-fair-2020/ https://www.scienceweek.net.au/ are examples, and then museums such as Sydney's Power House museum https://www.maas.museum/powerhouse-museum/ or the USA's Smithsonian Institution, [on my bucket list to visit] and of course more publicity on these places of opportunity and learning. I remember when my boy was around 6 years old, and I took him and his mate to the Sydney Observatory for a "night show" and the kids were allowed to camp over for the night. I wish such things were available when I was a kid!

And nothing creates critical thinking, better then contracting the covid19 virus... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-24/melbourne-tradie-with-covid-slams-protesters-urges-vaccination/100489814 Melbourne construction worker Nathan Chellia was on the phone to contact tracers when he collapsed at home, just one day after being diagnosed with COVID-19. Key points: Nathan Challia wants protesters to learn from his mistake and get vaccinated The Melbourne tradie spent two weeks in intensive care in hospital with COVID-19 He says people involved in this week's wild protests must stop spreading the virus "I was pretty much unconscious," Mr Chellia said. "The Department of Health had to call an ambulance and take me to hospital." The father of two would go on to spend the next 14 days in intensive care in Melbourne's Northern Hospital, where he could barely eat or drink. His throat was so closed, even simply sipping water would cause him to choke. At one point, Mr Chellia was asked by his doctors to contact his loved ones and make final arrangements in case "something happens". He told them that if he needed to be placed on a ventilator for more than 24 hours, they should let him die. "I had headaches, vomiting, bleeding from my mouth. I was pretty much half-dead," he said. "And I realised then that I had made a silly mistake because I hadn't had a vaccine." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: The protests continued yesterday with police out numbering protestors now, and the bleating cry of police brutality from those arrested. No mention of course of the health workers who were assaulted a couple of days previously, nor the assault of reporters, or the damage to many vehicles in their so called protest "freedom of choice" cries. Thankfully, the hardline now taken by government and police is standing firm, and the only results of their forlorn protests, is delay in ending these lockdowns. Criticism of the government is valid though in its delay in getting the required number of vaccines, probably in part due to the high rate of success Australia initially had in containing this virus last year. We are a victim of our own success it could be said. Meanwhile other states such as Queensland, Northern Territory, Tasmania, and Western Australia, remain virtually free of this "delta" variant, due to border closures. Thankfully vaccination numbers are now approaching the 70% mark when borders will be reopen.

That just about sums up your intentions for genuine discussions...or should we say as another mentioned, arguments?

Who do you believe practises science? *clue* Perhaps some of the names I have given.

Getting back on track, and as I have always been suggesting, it's science itself that the task of getting people interested falls on. In this respect the many talks and docos by the likes of Neil Degrasse Tyson, Brian Greene, Brian Cox, Sir David Attenborough, and the likes of "Blue Planet", "Love and Bananas; An Elephant Story" "Chasing Ice'.Blackfish, Our Universe, Cosmic Journeys, Wonders of the Universe etc can help in. Yet [at least where I am] the free to air channels are flooded with nonsensical "reality" type shows, when nothing could be further from that reality. Science is a wonderful, awesome discipline, that we all should make sure that our kids understand.

and the quote also said, "but can never answer questions such as "what should humans do about global warming?" meaning that while science can draw graphs based on the data available, and the many observationl aspects, what humanity does about it, is another decision, involving greed, emotional instability, and selfishness, and the fact that any human catastrophe will probably not occur with this generation. Not sure what planet you are on, or maybe what universe you are in, they all certainly can be problems in need of a solution, personal, societal and racial...but anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I would think this is off topic. We have also shown previously that science/models/theories also isn't about any supposed truth and/or reality.

Highlighted part by me seems valid.

That was an extract from the link btw, and agree, on face value is not really valid. But again it is totally true and factual, that science certainly cannot, nor attempts to answer all of mankind's political, and emotional problems. As he continues to rightly say, "they are simply a clash of human wants: one large faction wants one thing and the other faction wants something else. Lastly, many areas of life are simply too non-physical to be satisfactorily addressed by science. Love, hate, relationships, poetry, art, music, literature, and spirituality are all outside the realm of science. Any problems that arise in these areas cannot be completely solved by science." Just as science/theories/models, do ont necessarily reveal to us the true reality of our existence. But hey, my fault, but we maybe skewing off topic somewhat! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Biomass_v9.png ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Would appreciate some comments on the above. “Surprisingly, at least to me, humans are relatively small” and my second query, what is the "uncertainty" in the given biomass numbers?

Carl Sagan's ship of the imagination: It was a landmark of my youth also. It was shown every Sunday at 1300hrs in 30 minute episodes [from memory, may have been 1 hour episodes] But I'm not sure how you can believe that your generation was bedazzled by this lie that science can solve all mankinds problems. That most certainly was never part of my expectations, nor anyone else I knew. Science was never meant to or even predicted to solve all of humanities problems, but it certainly does far better then any other aspect of our society. Think what it has achieved in reducing hunger, disease, and increasing food supplies. Where would agriculture [and many other areas of our daily lives] today be without the science of satellites? Think human qualities in attempting to get a "perfect world" and if all our areas of science were applied as they should be. I came across this answer to your claim... https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2013/09/25/how-can-science-solve-all-of-our-problems/ There is enough rice in the world to feed every single person on the globe seven servings a day. World hunger is a result of human behavior and not inadequate agricultural science. Public Domain Image, source: Christopher S. Baird. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Science can answer questions such as "is the average global temperature increasing?" but can never answer questions such as "what should humans do about global warming?" Many of the "problems" that are discussed in the political sphere are not really problems at all in the scientific sense. They are simply a clash of human wants: one large faction wants one thing and the other faction wants something else. Lastly, many areas of life are simply too non-physical to be satisfactorily addressed by science. Love, hate, relationships, poetry, art, music, literature, and spirituality are all outside the realm of science. Any problems that arise in these areas cannot be completely solved by science." Not being sure of the validity of the above claim, started to wonder about his credentials... https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/faqs/ What are Dr. Baird's qualifications for providing answers to science questions? For the past three years, Dr. Baird has been an Assistant Professor of Physics at West Texas A&M University. In this capacity, he teaches numerous entry-level and upper-level university courses and carries out research on quantum devices. Previous to this, he was an adjunct physics professor for ten years at the University of Massachusetts Lowell and senior research scientist at the Submillimeter-Wave Technology Laboratory. While at UMass Lowell, Dr. Baird taught electromagnetics courses to PhD students and supervised PhD student research in the laboratory. Additionally, he has authored several dozen academic research publications, including various internal reports for the military. Furthermore, Dr. Baird has served as a peer reviewer for academic journals such as Applied Physics Letters, Optics Express, and IEEE Transactions on Antennas and Propagation; as well as a reviewer of applications for NASA fellowships and a reviewer of book proposals for CRC Publishing.

I would imagine that along with most other forms of alternate energy sources, these are continually being looked at.

And even as a baby with whooping cough and mumps vaccinations. In fact in many instances in some states, unvaccinated toddlers are refused entry to kindagartens, and all social welfare is refused for their parents. Certainly not one that took part in the destructive riots of this mob in question. The initial core were tradies concerned with mandatory vaccinations, yet these same mandatory vaccinations are near part and parcel already with other government and private concerns...then the ratbags got wind of it and decided to turn it into the riot of which it was. Even the tradies own union, the CMFEU, a left leaning union are at odds with the small section of members fighting against mandatory vaccination. The other point of course being that new cases in Melbourne, had more then 50% found on building sites. This has now led to the closing down of the building industry for 2 weeks, whereas before they had remained open during this current lockdown. And more recent news now has one of those confirmed protestors, having covid, and serious enough to now be in hospital. This is raising fears of a possible super spreading event. Many protestors presumably are now having sleepless nights. The biggest criticism of these riots, are that our police force are taking too much of a softly softly approach, [as on the first day] and consequently has led now to a more harder line with the use of batons, rubber bullets, and many arrests over the following couple of days. The disgraceful actions of this rabble and the justification of more force, has been highlighted with health care workers being assaulted in vaccination clinics during their march, reporters having bottles of urine tipped over them, and the desecration of the shrine of rememberence. Any support this mob did have, has quickly drained away.

I believe I mentioned it early in the piece, by far my favourite sci/fi movie was "2001: A Space Oddysey" and despite it now being somewhat dated [1968] predicted many things...Moon landings, space shuttle, space station, [albeit in a much simple form] AI, etc. Still imho, number uno! I may enjoy a sci/fi movie, but I will always afterwards go through the movie and see how many things they did get wrong. Did you see the Sagan version of Cosmos? It is what got me avidly interested in science, particularly cosmology. That and consequently a number of other various science docos, had me searching for more knowledge and info...Hawking's A Brief History of Time, was part of that trip...the forums such as this where I learnt further and more exacting definitions and data. My point is, and I have put this before, is that pop science docos do serve a purpose. If any layperson becomes insterested [as I did] they will endeavour to learn more and more [as I did]The BB as a conventional explosion being wrong, the rubber sheet and bowling ball analogy limitations...many many others. Sure, most will probably enjoy such pop science, do some thinking, be in momentarial awe, and then back to what they do best. If one person out of 10 make the effort to clarify and get more data, then the pop science has done a job. Also with all due respect, and having crossed swords with you before re how far space exploration will realistically take us, I see you view as somewhat pessimistic. While certainly you are probably far more learned then me, there are also others probably more learned then you, that would also fervently disagree. This is why I generally don't put any time limit on things. If I had back in July 1969 made a prediction, it would certainly have been that by now we would have a permanent outpost on the Moon. But that doesn't make that prediction as never going to happen. Obviously in that respect, the more problems we have on Earth, the slower our continued progress in space will be. Will we put boots on Mars? Certainly!! Don't ask me when though, although I hope the current schedule, is accurate.

Here's some more on that finding.... https://phys.org/news/2021-09-earliest-evidence-human-americas.html Thomas Urban conducts a magnetometer survey of mammoth footprints at White Sands. Credit: David Bustos / Cornell University Footprints found at White Sands National Park in New Mexico, providing the earliest evidence of human activity in the Americas. Credit: Cornell University

Meanwhile, back to normality.......................

For three days now Melbourne has been under attack from extreme right wing ratbag elements that have caused much damage and plenty of disgust among normal Aussies. The core of these riots while having some legitimacy, have been hijacked by various extreme elements that have like leaches, jumped on the bandwagon, in a belief of achieving some sort of result or victory. In fact, thankfully the opposite has happened. The legitimate core involved tradies and members of the CMFEU union and a mandatory vaccination order. On the first day after trashing their head office, many were found not to be union members, plus the fact that the leaders of the union, do support mandatory vaccination, as also now required in many other industries and sections of the community...health care, airline, public servents...why the hell this section should be excempt is beyond me, particularly considering that a great portion of new cases of covid 19 are in that industry and on building sites. This has led to the shutdown of the industry for 2 weeks along with the mandatory vaccinations necessary. The union also now has said they will review any membership based on whether a member has been vaccinated. Here are some photos of examples of the merging of the radical right ratbags and the copy cat Trumpism that has infected some in Australia.......The first photo shows the trashing of their union office headquarters... The next is an example of utter disrespect when they gathered on the steps of Melbourne's shrine of rememberence for all those killed in war... And on top of all this Australia's east coast has yesterday expeienced a 5.8 magnitude earthquake with the epi-centre about 100 kms nor/east of Melbourne business district. Thankfully no loss of life and some minimal building damage. Don't smirk at the 5.8 magnitude, we aint that used to earthquakes in Australia! Oh, and don't forget the conspiracy nuts......