beecee

Yep, agreed, punished in the appropriate manner according to the crime, incorrigible or not. Again, my sympathy lies with the visitm/s

Emotional stress??🤪 I would hazard a guess and say most of us at one time or another has undergone emotional stress.We aren't depraved criminals though, or can be said to be mentally ill. Nothing is accomplished by punishing him? isn't being jailed (contained) or being euthanised ( death penalty) forms of punishment? But you see locking him up and throwing away the key as accomplishing nothing? It's certainly protecting the rest of society...It's certainly administering justice, and of course with the case in question, rehabilitation was being practised when he commited his animal act. Sorry, again my first thoughts are with the vicitm. What happens with him and how he is being treated is of secondary concern, if any.

Don't knock us old bastards! We're there, you young ones have yet to get there!!!😉 I suppose in some instances and with some older people, changes annoy them. It annoys me for example, when I see kids today in front of the TV, staring at a mobile phone, or playing some type of Internet game. In my day I was (risking my life)out riding billy carts down the hill of the street I lived in, exploring old military installations, tunnels etc around the cliffs of Sydney, ( again risking our lives) making rafts out of timber and old corrugated Iron and sailing on some swamp in some of the undeveloped (at that time) areas on the outskirts of Sydney and playing pirates, and building bon fires and letting off crackers on Empire night, including blowing up the occasional letter box with some big bungers, ahhh memories!!! but gee we had great fun!!! 😄

How do you know he is sick? Presuming you mean mentally ill. He had been in jail before for raping an elderly woman. So we have an elderly woman and a little child...first thing that comes to mind is a snivelling coward. Yes, I gave him a like on that. So in essence you agree with capital punishment albeit under another name when appropriate? While I gave him a like, I am also reluctant to have the death penalty for fear of getting the wrong person. Sadly, locking them up and throwing away the key maybe the only answer to ever avoid that horrible possibility.Granted though in the case I exampled, that possible error [the wrong person] was nil. Also factually true (sorry dimreeper) This is illustrated admirably in the other real life case I gave a while back. https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9383624 "Kenan Basic stopped to help a 19 year old woman with her car at service station Woman had a broken-down car and Mr Basic spent two hours helping her fix it They hugged and he followed her a short distance to make sure she was alright Days later the woman claimed Mr Basic stalked her and indecently assaulted her Mr Basic spent two weeks in prison, lost his job and is going through a divorce All charges were dropped against him after woman admitted to lying" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here we have two cases, which imo raises the question/s of extreme wrongs being done to others...one involving a coward that raped a little girl, the other a woman falsely accusing a man who stopped to help her of sexual assault. The question arises who and where should our sympathies lie with in the first instant...the convicted rapist ( that was already out on parole and been given a chance to reform) or the little 7 year old girl who most probably has had here life ruined? Or in case two, the woman who has falsely accused a man who stopped to help her of sexual assault, and who has consequently lost his job, spent time in prison, and is going through a divorce because of it, or that same poor man? WTF!! I have given two real life cases, where it is beyond doubt as to where sympathies should lie, irrespective of any "supposed" mental illness. And all you have done is continued with trying to protect your own PoV based on some religious philosophy. Justice can never be fully done with relation to the two cases I have raised...how do you fully compensate a poor little girl that probably has had her whole life ruined along with the possibility of never being able to have a family, or the good samaritan that was falsly accused of sexual assault, spnt 2 weeks in jail, lost his job and is going through divorce because of it. That old friend, is where your sympathies, justice and compensation should lie. They are some more facts you seem so reluctant to accept. Personally, I understood exactly where you were coming from. What I must ask, is how do we determine and/or diagnose mental illness? Are psychiatry and/or psychology exact sciences? Was the bloke in my example mentally ill or just a depraved animal? Was the woman who falsely acused a man of sexual assault, mentally ill, or just having a bad day? Are the leaders and followerers of extreme Islam ( like ISIS and the Taliban) mentally ill or just religious fanatics? I really try and understand some of the points being put in this thread and others discussing society and society needs, in as calm and as unbiased a manner as possible, but I find it impossible to feel sympathy for instigators of some of the crimes that have been exampled. How do we conclusively determine mental illness, particularly with regards to a reasonable justice system?

Agreed...but it's science that results generally in such critical thinking. And I didn't say it was a fact. PS: You need to stop flaying yourself for being a madman. I don't believe you are. 😉

And as per Santa, all serve a harmless purpose with little children, be it fact or fantasy. But little children grow up and as they grow up, parents need to teach them (as opposed to instruct) how to critique logically certain so called facts. Science then excels.

And explaining further (if I may 😉) that does not mean the galaxies are moving faster then light, rather it is simply due to the intervenning space expansion. And the speed of light "c" only applies to anything with mass.

? I may have missed it. What instructions are you on about? Parental instructions to their children? 🤣 You bloody beauty!!! 🤔 Umm, sorry, what did I win?

On the contrary. Your arrogance is there for all to see in a number of threads, after being corrected on various unsupported points you have made. Take a deep breat, an aspro, have a good lie down and see if that fixes your problems up.

Yes, and children do also but in a limited sense if you have been following my posts. In that era, for parents to explain an eclipse for example, would be stretching it...volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, lightening, thunder, thereby giving rise and reason to manufacture some mythical supernatural deity or belief. We still do it today for infants...Santa and the Easter Bunny. And no, I don't really see anything too wrong in that...it does add a sense of fun and awe for our little ones.

😏 Whatever floats your boat. The only thing I'm assuming, is the fact that ancient man did not have the tools, nor the shoulders of giants before them, to stand on and see further. I thought I already said that. Teach the children? In that era with the lack of science?, I don't know.

Why do you chose to be a sociopath to protect a little girl? Any decent citizen would do that instinctively...in fact with the case in question, one poor bloke got stabbed for trying to stop this animal. . Agreed, but sadly.....

On the highlighted part that is most likely correct, as I am now recalling (before I read your post) an article as to the variability of Neutron star collapse points. Thanks for that.

The first sentence is correct and as I see it...The second, I'm of the opinion that if they were in any orbit around one another, that "gravitational drag" would be likely a given and compulsory, and as such, merging a certainty over time, and as such a BH would form. Agreed with the highlighted part, although the opposite is possible I believe with White Dwarfs accreting mass, from a companion and becoming a Neutron star or even a BH. The last part has me thinking somewhat...I would have thought a BH forming from two Neutron stars merging would be a cert....but hey, it's been a while since I was into this stuff. Still lovely to be discussing science rather then politics, religion and such!

Anyone else like to tidy up, modifiy, add?

There are many probable reasons, that possibly being another.

Label all you like, and play the vicitm status as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that evil people exist, as I have illustrated many times. Stop telling porky pies. I have answered most of your questions, including about the dog. They just don't fit your weird life philosophy. One, two, or three criminologists do not a Summer make. While evil people, (many who have had their chance but throw it back into the face of justice) exist, so to should prisons. You don't believe the arsehole in the example I gave was given a chance? He was out on payroll! Or have you forgotten? Here it is again....https://www.mygc.com.au/man-who-raped-7yo-girl-in-dance-studio-toilet-sentenced-to-life-in-prison/ Man who raped 7yo girl in dance studio toilet sentenced to life in prison: A man who raped a seven-year-old girl in the bathroom of a Sydney dance studio will die in jail, after being sentenced to life behind bars over the horrific attack. Convicted rapist Anthony Sampieri appeared in Downing Centre District Court on Wednesday, where he pleaded guilty to 10 charges including three counts of sexual intercourse with a child under 10. The court heard the 56-year-old, who was out on parole at the time for raping an elderly woman, dragged the little girl into the men’s bathroom at the Kogarah dance studio in November, 2018. Whilst in the locked cubicle, Acting Judge Paul Conlon said the man punched and bound the little girl before subjecting her to more than 40 minutes of terror, with some of it filmed on a mobile phone. One of the parents, Nick Gilio, was slashed across the head and stabbed in the stomach after confronting the man. The court heard he is still recovering both physically and mentally following the incident. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Now once and for all dimreeper, please explain to me why and how such a depraved monster should be given another chance, after he commited his ghastly crime while being given a chance. Please try and answer honestly. This of course as I have argued with you and your politics, is just one case that I am familiar with as it happened in Sydney. There are probably thousands, or tens of thousands similar cases throughout the world. And while you are answering the question, try to imagine the life long effects on that poor little girl, and if that was your child. No, not at all. beecee is simply facing reality, rather then sticking like glue to some politically inspired religious nonsense and bleeding heart attitude with regards to an impossible santised world. And of course your usual misplaced accusation of "revenge"... I did not know this little girl, nor her family, nor anyone connected with the case. But after reading reports from reputable sections of the media, my sympathy kicked in for the little victim, rather then some cult idealogy that feels for the evil perpetrator of this crime, that you seem to hold dear to your heart. Justice for all! particularly including justice for victims and criminal justice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice Justice, in its broadest sense, is the principle that people receive that which they deserve, with the interpretation of what then constitutes "deserving" being impacted upon by numerous fields, with many differing viewpoints and perspectives, including the concepts of moral correctness based on ethics, rationality, law, religion, equity and fairness. Whoever said that? What they deserve is justice befitting the crime...was it the first time? Was violence commited against anyone? If for example it was their first brush with the law, and no violence was commited, then at least where I come from, he may be given home arrest for a period, some community servicing, or maybe a short prison sentence depending on circumstances. There would not be any hanging, I'm pretty sure! 😉 Agreed. We have those social commitments in Australia and I would think most westernised countries. Could they be improved? Certainly. While understanding and accepting your first sentence, yes agreed totally, and would certainly vote for anyone furthering and bettering such programs. In saying that, yes, many of us are fortunate enough to have a reasonable upbringing with decent parents and not really "wanting" for too much. Yet we also understand that even in such idealistic fortunate upbringings, nothing is certain, and the result can still be a violent, troubled and evil person. By the same token those raised in poverty, broken families, violence etc, can also still turn out to be model, successful citizens. Others of course, the exact opposite. Yet all need to be given a chance to redeem themselves if offending against society. No one has ever argued against that.

Actually more about the morbid fear of the finality of death. Yeah for many probable deeply underlying reasons.

My non professional answer is that with (1) ) (1a) and (1b) a merging would be the final result and a combined collapse to a BH. I think we also have gravitational radiation from merging Neutron stars? With (2) the same final formation of a BH from remnants of both. I am puzzled by whatever you mean by the gravity's cancelling each other out. That essentially happens at Lagrange points where the fields balance. From my own view Neutron stars like any degenerated matter are balanced just near the EDP, and NDP and not much tipping is needed. Even a White Dwarf can be tipped above the EDP to form a Neutron star or BH. Just my thoughts, some based on what I have read in Thorne's book, but don't despair, one of our bright professionals is sure to be along to answer your questions and/or tidy up or modify my answers.

I didn't really say it was a need, it is a reason. And in answer to the second part, probably a variety of reasons, convention, the hard to accept cold hard fact that death is death, and finality, and of course because as yet science does not have all the answers to answer those questions.

Agreed, that all are probable reasons. Who said unappreciativly? And who is crowing? There access to science was limited. We of course are standing on the shoulders of giants that stand on the shoulders of other giants, that stand on the shoulders of other giants, ad infinitum until we have those standing on the shoulders of early man before he jumped down from the trees and discovered that he was bipedal. Disagree. It probably as you already have said is a possibility, a reason why they created the supernatural in their minds. I equate religion with supernatural. Well, OK, not obvious to you, but obvious to me. Sadly unless they were calling for old farts to go to Mars, I wouldn't stand a chance. But hey, and fair dinkum, if it wasn't for the Mrs, and my health and safety were reasonably guarranteed within the known and accepted dangers of such a trip, with a return also being seen as realistic, I would jump at the chance!!

Yes, we learn all the time, but none of that invalidates the likelyhood of early man creating dieties out of fear. Not sure what other popular assumptions you don't like, but that's your choice. And no one has said early man was stupider, but the facts stand, that they didn't have the advanced science to fall back on, nor the shoulders of giants, on whose shoulders they could stand to see any reasonable distance. So do I. The fact though remains, in that they didn't have the advanced sciences to call upon. I keep mentioning it because it is one of the prime obvious reasons. Please explain to me why it wouldn't be a reason? I stand amongst many who also hope they come true within one's lifetime. But nothing is certain, that I won't get hit by a bus tomorrow.

Yet GR, despite your misgivings fails us at the quantum/Planck level. And as others have inferred, a singularity of infinite density and spacetime curvature is now generally dismissed, and rather a singularity as defined by the failure of our laws of physics and GR prevails at this time, which makes far more sense.

Which is? We do not know that with any certainty as yet. Nonsense. That is simply an example of pure unsupported arrogance.

Nice post, particularly the WTF remark. The contest between religion and science? I agree with you on that score...One we can live without, the other we cannot. One has no evidence to support it and is simply a comfort thingy, the other is a product in eternal progression, as evidence comes to light. In saying that, I fully support those that see a need for that warm cozy comforting thingy, unless as the more fanatical of those, try and use it in scientific debates. Science is what we know; Philosophy/religion is what we don't know: Bertrand Russell. The highlighted word is my own insert. And yet even that fails more times then not. 😉 I was recounting the obvious nature of early man, without anything more then basic scientific intelligence, and how they probably were confounded by volcanis eruptions, eclipses, even thunder and lightening. Without relatively advanced science, there "god of the gaps" of choice was the methodology they used to explain them. Yep, of course, but going on some of your remarks and comments, you seem to be pushing a philosophically political point of view, as obviously is one other. eg: "You shouldn't. You should only pay attention to literate, civilized slave-owners who stoned people to death for being gay". I'm not really convinced, but hey! I could be wrong on that score. I still live in hope that we can put boots on Mars before I kick the bucket...I still live in hope that we will discover that life off this Earth does exist somewhere/sometime. I hope that we will always have intrepid humans, that will set out to go where no man has ever gone before. I still hope that the long sort after, validated QGT will surface in the near future. I hope that my Son, my Mrs, my grandchild, my freinds, all stay healthy. I hope that true evil will one day be eliminated and we can all live in peace and harmony, no matter our social or political standings in life. I hope that my bar fridge will always stay stocked full of VB, even when I am incapable of walking/riding up the street for a carton.