beecee

Yes, the operative word that should have sealed his fate. How do you sort out the idiots from reasonable thinking people. Afterall you did elect Trump.

Funny, I used this young punk as an example in the "what is justice" thread, where we had the equivalent of crocodile tears being spilt for similar perpetrators rather then the vicitm, along with that other bare breasted turkey with the horns that took over the White House. A couple of questions...this happened in the reign of Trump, correct? Did we get any criticism from the White House on that? How was the jury selected? Were there any African Americans in that jury? What I did find was https://people.com/crime/why-was-kyle-rittenhouse-found-not-guilty-of-2-fatal-shootings-during-2020-black-lives-matter-protest/ "he answered a citizen militia's call on social media to protect Kenosha businesses from protesters". "The shootings by Rittenhouse quickly inflamed the debate about vigilantism and attracted pro-gun activists and allies to his side, including then-President Donald Trump, who chose not to denounce his actions. Politicians and activists on both the left and the right have invoked the Rittenhouse case in appeals to energize supporters, with Congressional Republicans celebrating the outcome and Democrats lamenting it, reports" Then I found this crazy example of American law....https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1057422329/why-legal-experts-were-not-surprised-by-the-rittenhouse-jurys-decision-to-acquit "But the law of self-defense in Wisconsin allows someone to use deadly force if they reasonably believe they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. "And if so, he's allowed to use essentially as much force as he thinks is reasonably necessary to stop the threat," said Kim. Rosenbaum, the first person Rittenhouse shot, had acted belligerently throughout the night, according to video evidence and witness testimony. Later, he chased Rittenhouse through a used-car lot. Rittenhouse and another witness both testified that Rosenbaum had reached for Rittenhouse's gun. Rittenhouse shot four times within a second, killing him". ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Jesus Christ almighty, I mean wtf!!! I am staggered that it seems this little punk seemed to have acted within his rights, according to the law in that state. Can't Biden under some federal jurisitiction, get that nonsense scrapped? I mean being able to buy and carry guns willy nilly in America is crazy enough, but when you have laws such as that, it beggars belief! Are Americans still fixed in there old wild west days of the likes of Billy the Kid, and Wyatt Earp? The little punk should be locked up and the keys thrown away, but he has been found not guilty instead. Why are Americans so intransigent in not changing their constitutuion that is what, 250 years old now? That's as old as Australia is as a nation! The USA is known as the leader of the free world, and has given us great men and examples of leaders...Washington, JFK, numerous scientists such as Feynman, Oppenheimer, Sagan, Edison, Vera Rubin etc etc etc, and the list goes on and on...orginizations such as NASA, Smithsonian Institute etc. It deserves that position and should be respected for that position. But this sort of nonsense has its enemies and potential enemies, as well as allies and friends, seeing this great nation as a backwood society, driven by religious fanatics and rednecks. One can only wonder!!! Ahh well. Perhaps another "great"may emerge to lead your nation. Personally and I don't know a terrible lot about her, but I do like your vice President Kamala Harris.

Oh, OK, according to the title, this is about Atheism, not your philosophical/religious view of how you believe the world should be. I wish you did get it...blinkers?? God= myth: religion = faith: science = knowledge: and atheism = label:

"Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due." Ulpian. "At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst." -Aristotle. "Peace and justice are two sides of the same coin." - Dwight D. Eisenhower.

"Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher arguing that all others are jackasses. He usually proves it, and I should add that he also usually proves that he is one himself". Henry Louis Mencken. (1880-1956). Minority Report, H. L. Mencken's Notebooks. Knopf, 1956. https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-is-theoretical-physicist#:~:text=A theoretical physicist is a,interactions between matter and energy.&text=Some of the most common,Dark matter "A theoretical physicist is a scientist who uses mathematics, calculations, chemistry, biology and a series of theories to understand the complex workings of the universe and the interactions between matter and energy. They often attempt to understand areas that scientists are not currently capable of traveling to for exploration and data collection, such as the deep reaches of outer space and the ocean floor. Some of the most common theories studied by theoretical physicists include": String theory Dark matter Quantum mechanics Electrodynamics Thermodynamics Relativity

And as usual, you again are off topic, but the reason for that is again obvious. Getting back on topic, it stands out like dog balls, that the various descriptions of God from any corner of the world and every major world religion is the product of primitive and superstitious peoples who knew very little about the world in which they lived. I also have learnt over the years, and as shown on many science forums, that theism generally look upon Atheist with scorn and disbelief, and yes, also with wishes and threats of death and violence. http://www.mtv.co.uk/lol/news/richard-dawkins-reading-out-hate-mail-is-like-religious-celeb-mean-tweets Richard dawkins reading out hate mail..... Theists believe in gods and in god because they have been lied to. Myths are promoted as truths. Lies are told as facts. To be a theist is the be convinced of the existence of a god or gods. To be an atheist is to NOT be convinced of the existence of a god or gods. When theists stop looking down their noses at Atheists, when they cease with the death threats and chose tolerance, when they see the arrogance and stupidity in arguing against science and the scientific methodology, on science forums no less, then perhaps the Dawkin's of this world, may likewise let them live according to their beliefs. Afterall, I certainly would not walk into a church on Sunday and start telling the congregation about the futility of their beliefs and the finality of death. I respect them for whatver they chose to believe, no matter how unscientific. I personally have nothing against theists and weird philosophical stances, as long as their stance affects none other then themselves. I simply see science as a refinement of common sense. "Science is simply common sense at its best that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic". Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-95) English biologist. "The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification". Thomas H. Huxley (1825-95) English biologist.

No I didn't ignore it, I rejected the gist of it. Glad you agree with what I have previously said re having good morals is not confined to god believers. And Of course I have plenty of love, compassion and forgiveness within me, and we [myself and the Mrs] show that in a far more practical way then just plain rhetoric. But I also firmly believe all need to be responsible for their actions, and face the consequences of such actions, and not make excuses for those actions....but hey matey, this isn't about compassion and love, its a thread for defining Atheism, a label I don't concern myself with too much in actual fact, as I have already stated and given reasons for. You have fun anyway, I'm out of this, as it is simply a rehashing of old ground.

They're out there! 😉

Have you ever considered you maybe wrong? Wrong in what we ought to have, for the reasons given. Apologies, damn, I was going to leave this.

John F. Kennedy once said, “Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.” But change for change's sake can be more damaging to your efforts towards creating an engaged and inspired workforce than no change at all. Our system of justice is not perfect, and as I have shown on other issues, if evidence is forthcoming, that I am wrong in my view of what justice should entail, I will consider and accomadate that view/philosophy. That has been far from the case though in this thread, or those of a similar vane. The first consideration when implementing justice is without question the vicitm and society. The second is to re-enforce the fact that in that society it is wrong and appropriate punishment to attempt to deter from any re- offending. The third is attempts at rehabilitation, particularly and irrefutably desirable with your first timer offenders. That is what the vast greater majority see as justice, and just as obvious as why mainstream science, is mainstream science. There are evil criminals in society that will always take advantage of attempts at rehabilitation and leniency. That is another irrefutable fact. These are the ones where locking them up and throwing away the key is entirely appropriate. What about if they are mentally ill, I hear someone ask? How do we tell a mentally ill person from an evil person is my reply. What physiological and/or psychological opinions can honestly and reasonably answer this? Military orginizations, police forces, and such are sadly, 100% necessary because of the diversity in society of the good, the evil...Many people that have had ideal upbringings can also be evil....many people with troubled, dysfunctional upbringings turn out as model citizens. I try and always see things with reality in mind, and with compassion ready to give if required and irrespective of what being left or right of the political spectrum, says I should be. A reason why I reject the labeling of Atheist, when essentially, imo anyway, I try and follow that which makes the most sense. I prefer practical evidenced based reasoning and examples over philosophical jargon. I certainly at this time see no reason to change that view, either here, or in the atheist thread, despite a couple of downvotes. In saying all that, I will leave this philosophical thread and concentrate on the sciences, or at least those that are within my capabilities. Best of luck to those trying to santise society.

The rest of your post, tells me differently. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/19/our-knowledge-of-covid-19-changes-every-day-hindsight-is-misleading-when-it-comes-to-science "We can’t look back and wonder what might have been, because the path that we’ve trodden was really the only one available. The reality is that, while hindsight might be fun, it is misleading".

A great example of going from the sublime to the ridiculious. The failure in the main is intractible criminals re-offending when shown leniency and attempts at rehabilitation. https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Pages/bocsar_media_releases/2014/mr_cjb178.aspx http://www.paroleauthority.nsw.gov.au/Documents/CJB178.pdf You go on about attempts at improving what we have. Most justice systems all allow for possible rehabilitation and sympathy for the instigator of a crime/s. (2) Examples of those are house arrests, community services, parole, ankle bracelets, non custodial sentences, educational courses, counseling, etc, (3) On many of those occasions when reahbilitaion and/or sympathy is shown, it ( as in the case I present) is thrown back into the face of society. In fact there are so many examples of that abusing and/or taking advantage of the system, that there is now movement where I come from to tighten and make more difficult the many examples of rehabilitation processes that do exist in the justice system. Which of course makes it harder for the younger criminal and first timer, to receive any just sympathy or rehabilitation processes. Yes, obviously he is/was being used. And I would also suggest he will/should be receiving treatment while in prison. That photo btw, was sent to me and is obviously something from your Democratic party.

It's really hard to imagine that anything like him/it could actually be allowed to run wild!

Another picture of justice being done, thankfully....... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-18/qanon-shaman-jacob-chansley-jailed-over-us-capitol-riots/100629288 The so-called "Qanon Shaman" has been sentenced to almost three and a half years in prison for his role in the US Capitol riots on January 6. The so-called "Qanon Shaman" has been sentenced to almost three and a half years in prison for his role in the US Capitol riots on January 6. Certainly, as it occured in my own back yard. That's the problem, it is far from an isolated example, and similar deplorable violence takes place everyday around the world...and some of those cases I have already mentioned throughout this thread. Again, you have danced around what I have been suggesting. Let me recap it for you...(1) Most justice systems all allow for possible rehabilitation and sympathy for the instigator of a crime/s. (2) Examples of those are house arrests, community services, parole, ankle bracelets, non custodial sentences, educational courses, counseling, etc, (3) On many of those occasions when reahbilitaion and/or sympathy is shown, it ( as in the case I present) is thrown back into the face of society. In fact there are so many examples of that abusing and/or taking advantage of the system, that there is now movement where I come from to tighten and make more difficult the many examples of rehabilitation processes that do exist in the justice system. Which of course makes it harder for the younger criminal and first timer, to receive any just sympathy or rehabilitation processes. https://www.smh.com.au/national/high-reoffending-rates-cast-doubt-on-parole-system-20060218-gdmzt7.html High reoffending rates cast doubt on parole system: https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Pages/bocsar_media_releases/2014/mr_cjb178.aspx Parole Supervision and Re-offending New research by the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research has found strong evidence that offenders released from prison on parole are less likely to re-offend than offenders released from prison without any supervision. The Bureau identified 2,019 offenders released from prison under parole supervision, matched them with 2,019 very similar offenders released from prison without parole, and then followed them up to see which group was more likely to re-offend. The Bureau found that, 12 months after release, 48.6 per cent of the unsupervised offenders had re-offended, compared with 43.6 per cent of the supervised offenders. At 36 months, the comparative rates of re-offending were 70.3 per cent for the unsupervised group and 65.7 per cent for the supervised group. more at link.................... ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: On another point I will raise at this time with reference to a bloke that escaped from prison in NSW 30 years ago [hewas serving 3 years and was in for growing marijuana] In that time he has been a model citizen, flying below the radar and avoiding capture for those 30 years. Due to covid, he lost his job and was sleeping on the beach, so decided to give himself up. the story here....https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/09/15/australian-prison-escapee-turns-himself-30-years-later-covid/8350204002/ CANBERRA, Australia – A 64-year-old fugitive walked into a Sydney police station to give himself up almost 30 years after he used a hacksaw blade and bolt cutters to escape from prison, police said on Wednesday. Darko Desic decided to go back to prison because Sydney’s COVID-19 lockdown made him jobless and homeless, media reported. Desic surrendered at Dee Why Police Station at Sydney’s fashionable northern beaches on Sunday morning and was denied bail when he appeared in a downtown court on Tuesday charged with escaping from lawful custody in 1992, a police statement said. The charge carries a potential seven-year prison sentence. Sydney’s lockdown, which began in June, had cost Desic his cash-in-hand work as a laborer and handyman, unnamed police sources told Sydney’s The Daily Telegraph and Australian Broadcasting Corp. “He slept on the beach on Saturday night and said: ‘Stuff it, I’ll go back to prison where there’s a roof over my head,’” a source told the newspaper. more at link.... extract: Born in the former Yugoslavia, Desic told police he escaped because he thought he would be deported once he had served his sentence, the newspaper reported. He feared he would be punished for failing to do his compulsory military service in his former country, which has since broken into several nations. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: He was so thought of in his local Northern beach community, that there is now a petition circulating that he be immdiatley released, and be granted full citizenship. I signed that petition. Just an example of a worthwhile scenario where sympathy needs to be applied. He is yet to go to court, but I'm pretty sure that deserved leniency and sympathy will be applied. Would you like anymore cases that illustrate where and when rehabilitiative processes have been abused and taken advantage of, or alternatively, where leniency should and most likely will be applied? Or perhaps you would like to give your own examples and links, to support your own philosophy and where that has ever worked exclusively?

???? I said..... you replied..... Yeah, I'll stick with obtuseness.

Are you serious? A monster, let out on parole, (you know, an example of rehabilitation) that then almost immediatly rapes and severly assualts a little girl and stabs a good samaritan that goes to her rescue. So you conveniently say it isn't part of the justice system? I see your position as being totally obtuse and simply a means of defending the indefensible.

The only differences would be more power to put a proble into orbit, and better and more efficient methods of slowing a craft upon entering the atmopshere for a landing.

And of course (as you forgot to address) they will most certainly, do their darndest to take advantage of the system. I would most certainly ( in the main real life case of the rape of the little girl) grab all the parole board that granted this arsehole parole, and put them through the wringer as to how with all those expert psychiatrists and psysiologists on that board, that they let this animal out on parole, without recognising what he was. It may have given them that warm fuzzy feel good feeling, but it certainly did not help the little girl, her parents, the good samaritan that went to her assistance and got stabbed for his efforts, the police that originally brought him before the courts, and society in general.

Pretty sure most cosmologists agree that the universe has much more to offer, and of course they also understand that the BB isn't the full story. No atoms have not always been here. In the very early moments of the BB, temperatures and pressures were so great that atoms definitely could not exist. In fact it wasn't until around 380,000 years post BB before temperatures were such that electrons could combine with protons to form our first atoms of hydrogen and other light elements. Those same atomic nuclei could not form until 3 minutes post BB. And earlier times suggest that all that existed was space, time, and a superforce of all known forces combined into one. When we die, our atoms are changed into other stuff and recycled into the ecosystem. The very first fundamentals were formed via E=Mc2, and as the superforce started to decouple (gravity first) as temperatures dropped due to the expansion of spacetime.

All well and good, and a heart warming exercise. Still it does nothing to change the incorridgibles that exist in society, nor the fact that the attempts at rehabilitation and being given second chances (you know, like the monster in my real life example) are sometimes thrown back into society's face. That's where justice has no choice but to lock them up and throw away the key...or the right wing politically motivated punk above. They both in different ways have without doubt, taken advantage of the system/s....or the "so called freedom" of the anti vax brigade, that are still screaming the loudest about their so called rights, with marches, protests, death threats etc, because society is excluding them ( for the good of society) from that very society, despite the money being thrown at attempts to re-educate them and their weird take on freedom of choice etc. They (the hard core of them) will not change and thankfully neither will the government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCT_iS6uToYThrow as much psychology and psychiatry attempts at reasoning with them as you like. They ( in all the cases shown) will take advantage of the justice system.

I'm buying nothing, in fact I'm only rejecting your philosophy. Which is all this is about.

Certainly not the same oomph as a Solar eclipse, but interesting scientifically never the less.

This cold blooded crocodile tear phony needs to be locked up ASAP before he spills even more blood…that's justice!!!

OK, essentially I am asking how they ascertain cosmological redshift from gravitational and/or Doppler redshift. This does explain it....... https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/c/cosmological+redshift Although cosmological redshift at first appears to be a similar effect to the more familiar Doppler shift, there is a distinction. In Doppler Shift, the wavelength of the emitted radiation depends on the motion of the object at the instant the photons are emitted. If the object is travelling towards us, the wavelength is shifted towards the blue end of the spectrum, if the object is travelling away from us, the wavelength is shifted towards the red end. In cosmological redshift, the wavelength at which the radiation is originally emitted is lengthened as it travels through (expanding) space. Cosmological redshift results from the expansion of space itself and not from the motion of an individual body. For example, in a distant binary system it is theoretically possible to measure both a Doppler shift and a cosmological redshift. The Doppler shift would be determined by the motions of the individual stars in the binary – whether they were approaching or receding at the time the photons were emitted. The cosmological redshift would be determined by how far away the system was when the photons were emitted. The larger the distance to the system, the longer the emitted photons have travelled through expanding space and the higher the measured cosmological redshift. The difference being with Doppler it is "shifted" towards the red end...With cosmological redshift, the wavelength is "lengthened"

https://phys.org/news/2021-11-longest-lunar-eclipse-centuries-week.html The longest lunar eclipse in centuries will happen this week, NASA says: You can see the longest partial lunar eclipse in hundreds of years this week. The "nearly total" lunar eclipse is expected overnight Thursday, Nov. 18, to Friday, Nov. 19, NASA said. "The Moon will be so close to opposite the Sun on Nov 19 that it will pass through the southern part of the shadow of the Earth for a nearly total lunar eclipse," NASA said on its website. The eclipse will last 3 hours, 28 minutes and 23 seconds, making it the longest in centuries, Space.com reported. more at link........................