njaohnt

We'd still be squatting in caves and being eaten by lions...

 

What I am saying is you know things that you can't know. Saying "Who knows" when we could find out, yes, the world would be no where if everyone said that for things that we could find out.

 

I could write a book saying I created the universe and then point to that book as proof

 

What does it prove?

 

Go ahead. Do it. You won't succeed. No one will believe it. It is not true, and is complete wrong.

What's with the bizarre point system?

I don't know

The theory of gravity makes the prediction that, notwithstanding air resistance, things I drop will accelerate towards the earth at 9.8ms^-1. If I so desire, I could spend all day dropping things and measuring their acceleration due to gravity. I could compile my results, work out the probability that the things I dropped indeed accelerated at the rate predicted by gravity and thus work out the probability that the assertion made by the theory is correct, and thus decide if my observations support the theory or not.

It's not about measuring, it is about existence. How did gravity come? You don't know. Even if you found a way to change gravity, or make another force, it had to come out of something, by the the rules of science. That's the thing. The rules of science are impossible without God, or at least some other god to make them -- or some other thing that made these amazing forces that allow us to live.

Love to see your calculations on that one... but regardless the argument is nonsensical. If I roll a dice 100 times the probability of obtaining the result, regardless of what it is, is (1/6)¹⁰⁰. A result is inevitable, the chances of coming to a particular result "by pure chance" are miniscule - using the extremely low probability of the observed result after the fact as evidence that it couldn't happen by chance isn't logically sound.

 

Yes, possible, but very unlikely.

njaohnt... pot... kettle... black...

 

I know. But that's not the same in world.

 

Obviously there is some disagreement of this, isn't there.

 

Also WHO PRESSED THE MINUS! I think it was you, but it could have been someone else.

You did not think hard enough.

 

And yet, you're suggesting "god did it" is a viable explanation

 

Maybe you haven't thought enough

 

Yes, but how is that different from gravity, and many other things being here. The only answer I've ever had, was that "We know here" but that is no better than Christianity. That's a 50/50. There is nothing with more, or less evidence. 1 point each.

 

Then we'll put on the factors. The Bible. People have said "the Bible is no evidence" but that is no better than some smart guy that thought up some theory, that you've never even seen -- 1/2 point for Christianity. That's the thing. If you could see God, He was with you everyday, you would believe that He exists, right? However, you will believe someone that you've never seen -- 1/4 point for atheism.

 

Point count.

Christianity: 1.5

Atheism: 1.25

 

Lay on your factors Atheists!

 

 

If he is not made of flesh and blood, then is he pure energy? If so, then he can't have eyes like ours, a nose, mouth and ears like ours, skin and internal organs like ours. How can we be made in his image then?

 

 

We can't.

Not really pure energy. Just -- what He is. Who knows? Perhaps some sort of special "matter"? Perhaps nothing, just a "Spirit" of nothing? Jump out of the fact that everything is made of matter, and go for the fact that no one knows what's out there.

 

Oh, less points for atheists!

The chance life the way it is, with life complexity is approximately 1/1 000 000 000

1.25/1000000000 = 1.25 × 10^-9

So now Atheism: 1.25 × 10^-9

If you take that attitude to everything you didn't know, the human race would be no-where.

 

No where? Where would it be?

Wait, I'm confused -- you mean "doesn't" ? If not (and sorry for the confusion) then I'd love to see the quote that says something about the Big Bang. I studied the OT quite extensively, I've never seen anything remotely close to it.

 

 

True, the biblical account of creation does not state how long each day was, that much is true, and could have also taken 10,000,000 of what we consider "years" now. This would make the theory that the universe is 14 billion years old actually plausible, by the way, wouldn't it?

 

That said, the problems I have with the creation story isn't about the time, it's about the details:

 

I would expect a God that invents the laws of physics to get the details straight. Of course he COULD have changed the rules right after he invented them, and then change them back, but you have to admit that's quite a trick for a God that you claim really really wants us to believe he exists.

 

Here are two examples:

1. Creation of Day and Night in the first day. And yet, the creation of the Sun, moon and stars is on Day 4. How do you have day and night without the sun?
2. Follow up on the same principle, God creates the Earth, seas and Plants before the sun. First, no plants without the sun (and if each day is a lot longer than a few hours, the plants would die without sun light). Second, planet Earth would go whoooooshing through space without the gravity from the Sun. No orbit.
   And guess what? No tides, either, without the Moon, which was also created a day later.

Either god's TRYING to confuse us on purpose (and then why complain when we fall for it? he's a lot stronger!) or that's not the way things happened.

 

A rather nice lay out of some of the problems can be found in this page: http://www.vexen.co....html#Chronology

 

 

 

 

 

"I don't know" is much better for a discussion than "I don't care what you say, I'll stick to X". Don't you agree?

 

Time.

 

Who needs sun? They're MIRACLES.

 

Ok then, what happened to them? Where did they go?

 

No where. They Bible doesn't say anything about a lot of things. It doesn't need to say something about them.

 

If you believe that then why bother to discuss this on a science forum, you certinly cannot show any evidence of miracles. But I can and have shown evidence of God being a psychopathic liar... yes you ignored all the murder and mayhem that was done by the will of that evil being you worship.

 

I don't know. I was brought here by mooeypoo from another forum (remember anti-big-bang case far a creator?) Otherwise, I'd still be find out about my fuel cell.

Did GOD or nature decide that there would be "food chains" among all living creatures? And can science save us from this ignorance?

Hope this is a better explanation.

 

Yes

 

Yes, somehow I didn't ask the question properly. But, is it Gods fault or natures; that we have to eat each other to exist? Someone please respond to this question!!

Uh, yeah, but they don't have human souls. They're there for us to survive. We rule over them.

OK, let's drop the straw man and address the question from a different perspective.

 

Please explain the reason or reasons why you believe in God. Please be clear as to the concept of God that relates to those reasons.

 

Ha. Why? Simple. It's the way things work.

 

Evolution:

Physics => matter => universe => us => other life out there?

Christianity:

Non-physical life=> God => Good & Devil & us =>(from Devil) Evil => temptation to believe in evolution

 

The way that the physical stuff work has to have a way for physics to come. How?

 

However Christianity doesn't come from that. There is no reason for it to come out of it.

 

Before you hit that minus, think. You won't come up with an answer, except to hit the plus. If you still want to press the minus, you haven't thought enough.

You are asking a question, that you can't find out. You don't know enough about the world outside our world to even guess.

It's just the way things work. To an atheist, it's like gravity. Where it came from, there's not even enough info for him to guess.

Heaven. Though you're not going, because you have done the debt of over 10 000 talents, so you can't pay that back, now can you? Believe in Him, ask for forgiveness of your debt, and your saved. (Just don't borrow any more in the future, please)

Who knows? Not me. Not you. You don't have infinite IQ, now do you? If you did, you would not be asking.

If this is true, then why is there suffering in the world?

 

If God can do anything, then He could make the universe so that suffering is impossible, and yet still achieve exactly what it is he wants. The only counter to this argument is to reject the God of the bible.

 

You would have to either admit that there are impossible things, even for God and if that is the case, then the Christian God no longer conforms to what the bible says (ie: God is not the God of the bible - and Christianity is falsified).

 

Or, you admit that God is evil and wants us to suffer unnecessarily.

 

Or, does not exist.

 

He has chosen not to. Why, I don't know. You, nor me know enough of why.

How do you know he knew all along it would work?

I don't know. I'm just guessing.

Really?! Also, you mention fossils - Doesn't the bible say that there were no dinosaurs?

No.

And then you have to be insulting....

That's not insulting, it's still good to have a patent, even if you knew all along that it would work.

Not true, if not for skeptics we would all think the earth is flat and covered by a crystal dome under water.

Not true, skeptics (well, depending on how strong of skeptics) would be too skeptical to think that the earth is round, and when the time came to prove that the earth is round, they would be too skeptical to send a space shuttle to make clear proof that the earth is round, they would be too skeptical to try it, because of its dangerousness.

 

 

 

Hitler was not only a Christian, a Roman Catholic, but a Creationist, he believed the bible was the infallible word of god...

Genesis and all....

However, did he ask for forgiveness? I don't think so, but if he (which, that would mean that he thought that what he did was wrong) did, then he is not evil. If he didn't, he is neither a Christian, nor is he not evil.

 

You need to look up the meaning of 'strawman' there strawman...

 

P.S. Yes I'm a skeptic and yes, I happen to hold 2 patents so skeptics can indeed be inventors!

Yes, things you know will work (probably). What were those patents?

Actually try it. By the way, to scale, the Earth is smoother than a cue ball. How tall must your mountain be for your solution to work if it's possible at all?

I don't know, but nothing is impossible with God.

 

A skeptic is simply someone who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual. It has nothing to do with the imagination of inventors and creators.

So? You're a skeptic. If the light bulb wasn't invented, and you had this idea, you try once, twice, three times...5984 times, 5985 times. Wouldn't you give up in your skepticism far before the over 10 000 tries that it took Edison? Wouldn't you say "I'm skeptical that the next one will work, so I'm skeptical that it is possible" on number 20? To tell you the truth (I'm not very skeptical) I would give up on number 30, or 40. Tell the truth. When would you give up?

 

You made the positive assertion. The burden of proof is on you. By dismissing the burden of proof, you've turned your mountain explanation into a logically fallacious and thus dismissible argument.

 

Classify the following people according to good and evil: Zakir Naik, Adolf Hitler, Fred Phelps, Mahatma Gandhi, David Koresh, Thomas Jefferson, Anders Behring Breivik. Then reclassify according to whether they identify as Christian. Compare your lists.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but the only person on that list that I know is Adolf Hitler.

Evil.

Non-Christian.

Actually no, you cannot have a mountain that high, Mt. Everest is very close to being as high as a mountain can be on the Earth, yes there are limits to how high a mountain can be under the influence of Earths gravity.

 

The Devil can do miracles.

 

Nothing made me turn to atheism. I am a skeptic and don't believe in anything for which there is no proof. There is no proof of deities so there is no reason to believe in them. If everyone were the skeptic they should be there would be no debates about deities at all.

Skeptics. If the whole world were skeptics(like, very skeptical skeptics), a whole bunch of inventions(light bulb, nuclear energy, and most of all, computers) would not be here.

So, where was it? Where did it go? What removed it? Given the difficulties humanity faced getting to the top of Everest, how did biblical era men climb it? How did they see so far in an atmosphere containing water vapor?

Who knows, an earthquake, maybe it exploded, and it is now a giant rock. Who knows?

"Given the difficulties humanity faced getting to the top of Everest, how did biblical era men climb it? How did they see so far in an atmosphere containing water vapor?"

The Devil can perform miracles.

 

Wait, why am I evil?

You are evil because you have done evil things in your life.

Are you saying I turned evil when I was a 10 year old in grade school?

 

Yes, you regretted taking The Gift, and you took it back, and exchanged it for the evil that you did.

How do you know I was raised in good?

You would have never been a Christian if you were not raised in good.

What do you know about me or my family?

Remember this?

That is easy for me. I became a Christian because my parents had me baptized, took me to church, sent me to Catholic school, and told who and what God was. The experience that made me turn to atheism was also the fact that I went to school where I learned about science, how to think logically, and to question what I am told.

And how do you know not many of the kids at my school were Christians?

I don't. I just think so. It sounds more likely for you to regret The Gift, if you were around people who regretted it.

And most importantly, who are you to judge me?

Who am I to judge you? I am not really judging you, I am just telling you my beliefs and what will happen to you if they are right.

By the way this is false. This is the proper way to cite them according to every writing standard. Also, my quotes are KJV which has no copyright. Care to try again?

Oh, sorry, I thought it was NIV.

 

So, you're not familiar with a globe? Pick up a globe, put a pin in Palestine, and use a string to see if you can form a line of sight to the east coast of China.

That I would succeed. Here's the deal.

Take a globe. You can see half of the globe. Turn it 180°, you can see the other half. At that time they occupied less than half the world. Turn it so that mountain would be facing the middle of your face. Move it closer to you, until you can't see the east of China. Certainly you can have a mountain that high.

I was raised as fundamentalist Christian, I really had no other choice. Reading the bible cover to cover several times (as opposed to reading in tiny bits picked out by the pastor) convinced me that if it was real then God was a psychopath and the actual nonsense passed off as reality just made it impossible to believe. The lack of any evidence what so ever to support anything supernatural pretty much spelled the death of all other god concepts as well... But the neo-pagans are pretty cool, naked ceremonies and all that sort... but in the end I came to realize there are no gods...

I cannot believe that after your experience with boat didn't change your mind. Well, if that can change your mind, the only thing that will is when you go to hell. The problem -- once you're there -- you're there, there's not going back.

 

Listen. Go back, and think about it. Think about how you survived, how that voice came, think about it...

 

 

 

The whole thing. Take a ball and see if you can see one side from the other.

 

"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth"-Daniel 4:11

 

"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."-Isaiah 11:12

The one before, all the kingdoms of the world were there, people were not very far, so with the amount of area on a globe that they took up, I can see all that area. Maybe the Devil gave a power to show Him very far. I also remember a verse that said that the earth is round in Isiah, I'll go find it.

 

Number 2. The end of all the earth? Again, they had no idea how big the earth was, because they occupied only a small part of it. The end of the all the earth? Where was it? Perhaps He is talking about the farthest part of where people were, because that was the world for them, and if a tree grew all the way to heaven, some could see everyone at that height.

 

Number 3. Remember, the Bible was translated. Perhaps the translator didn't know English to what we know, and thought it could be any area, or he didn't know Hebrew as well as normal, and thought that whatever he thought earth was was actually what meant an nation, or something. There was four corners of Israel.

 

You really shouldn't put verses like that, it is against the law. The NIV Bible is copyright, and you have to put NIV and the end of each passage if you don't have permission.

 

 

 

 

That is easy for me. I became a Christian because my parents had me baptized, took me to church, sent me to Catholic school, and told who and what God was.

 

The experience that made me turn to atheism was also the fact that I went to school where I learned about science, how to think logically, and to question what I am told.

So basically, you were raised in a world of good. You had to face the real evil of the world, and you became like them...however I never went to that real evil world(Christian school) -- yet, perhaps -- and maybe that is why I have not turned evil. You atheists really worry me about the net generation, because you were raised in good, and you turned bad. So if almost all the Christians turned bad, then almost everyone would be atheists, and that would be bad.

 

 

Now, yeah, you went to Catholic school, and that I've heard is not much different from the normal school -- from the looks of it, not many of the kids at that school were Christians -- so that must have been pretty evil.

I'm not sure if this is the topic that had that list of countries that said if then were religious, but that probably was wrong. I found a book that said that Christianity is more popular than anything else in the world. Agnostics were next, and atheists were 8^th.

 

Ok, I'll tell the story...

Great story. Can I put that in my signature?

Okay then, all you atheists, tell us your experience that was most likely to make you become a Christian, and then tell us what experience made you mostly turn to athism.

We'll see how they compare…

But there is no air in a vacuum.

 

Are you referring to a place outside the space-time continuum? Because that isn't what we are discussing.

No air in the vacuum? Still, it's zero, not negative. Nothing is nothing, not negative. If I'm not making sense, I'm probably thinking of something completely different.

yes, i do have many questions on the subject

 

primarily, how do i communicate the radio frequency (once received by the antenna) to a speaker?

when does it become sound?

 

 

(and thanks for the link, you've jogged my memory a bit to a an example of a rudimentary two-way radio, and it's helped in my understanding of the topic)

 

You really should Google this stuff up. I'll only tell you what I know, so for everything else, I go look it up.

For a simple earphone, just simply connect it to the antenna, but you may need to use a transistor, or a relay to get it out the loudspeaker. It becomes sound when it gets to the loudspeaker.

 

When the frequency changes by just a bit, it causes a different amount of energy to travel through, so that you can communicate in code.

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"-Matthew 4:8

What part of that says that the earth is flat?