njaohnt

Bible law exceeds God’s “Eye for an Eye” law.

 

From this fact, it follows that human institutions have placed themselves higher than God, in terms of what laws they will follow. This includes religious hierarchies. They all break the first commandment. All believers also break the first commandment if following secular law over God‘s.

 

 

 

There are ample examples in scriptures where the basic law of an eye for an eye is promoted. IOW, the penalty should suit the sin. A graduated scale of fault. A do onto others and brotherly love type of fiduciary thinking. Reciprocity is fair play type of thinking.

 

Lev 24;20

Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

 

You might note that this passage indicates that man sins against man and shows that we do not and cannot sin against God. Forgiveness comes from man. God cannot be hurt by mere men.

 

There are also ample instances where the Bible urges us to kill our own for reasons that are less offensive and that do not meet the notions of the justice of an eye for an eye. Fornication and disrespecting parents being two of the many reasons to exact holy revenge by death. Exceeding an eye for an eye by a long shot. It is these more barbaric law that has helped secularism grow.

 

 

 

In following secular laws, we seem to be ignoring God’s laws and thus breaking the first commandment.

 

God. The word God, means many things to many people but at the root of your understanding of the meaning of that word-- should be rules for living a good life.

 

Secularism has wisely, chosen to discard some of the older notions and draconian laws.

 

As more people become educated to secular standards, religions will decline. God’s laws will die in the hearts of men.

 

Should believers of the Bible God follow God’s laws or the laws of man?

 

Does it break the first commandment or not if believers follow mans laws?

 

Is this an end to religion’s and God’s relevance in terms of law?

 

Is the mythical God no longer required for the best law?

 

Remember please that we are in 2011. Not 111.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

DL

Look in, I believe that chapter, if not the one before.

A question for atheists. In a world where there's no proof of God's existence or of life after death; how will you explain to your children why you brought them into the world and why they should die?

Lots have done it. There is tons of evidence.

Matthew 19:26, Luke 18:27, Mark 10:27. In both cases, Jesus says something to the effect of "all things are possible with God." That sounds like omnipotence.

Possible. Not needed to be good, though. If I had a legal counterfeit bill maker, and you are in debt, and your $250 000 house is at risk, Am I going to give you money? Maybe. First I would give it to the people that are at risk of losing their food, which only costs a dollar a day, in the poorest of countries. Looks like your at the back of the line, but the people in extreme poverty keep on cutting in line, because of their situation.

If someone doesn't work, is it your responsibility to provide for them, because you are not evil? No, they need to stop doing the evil which do, and get a job. Looks like you need to start following the Bible to have your prayer answered.

The bible is a hearsay book written by MAN and is no evidence of anything. Please tell us where there is any credible evidence to support a belief in god that is a work of god, not one of mankind's storybooks.

 

P.S.

 

You cannot use the bible as evidence to support the bible itself as evidence.

Not God's existence, but His laws and what He wants you to do.

So, the bible is not evidence of anything anyhow. Please tell us, is god omnipotent or not and please cite something to support that claim if you think it is.

The Bible is the only place where you can find out why God does what He does. Where else?

Hearsay evidence is not credible support for your position. Can you cite something more authoritative and verifiable?

No.

Then he is not omnipotent.

The Bible says nothing about Him being omnipotent.

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=omnipotent+&qs_version=NIV

How do you know he won't smite me with his hammer?

 

12Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.^b I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”

(Jeremiah 29:12-14 NIV)

But you better do more research on God, because you don't want to go to Hell.

^'4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many.' -- that's happening a lot --' ⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.' --Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and apparently some of these countries are going out against Israel--' There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.'--Japan, Haiti--' ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.

⁹ "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.'' '--Like I said, Israel--' ¹⁰ At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, '--You--' ¹¹ and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ¹² Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, ¹³ but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.' --Looks like you've heard, haven't you?--

(Matthew 24 NIV)

The Tribulation. Imagine how much worse Hell must be.

'¹ Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go, pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth."

² The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

³ The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died.

⁴ The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. ⁵ Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

"You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,

you who are and who were;

⁶ for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,

and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve."

⁷ And I heard the altar respond:

"Yes, Lord God Almighty,

true and just are your judgments."

⁸ The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. ⁹ They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

¹⁰ The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony ¹¹ and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

¹² The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. ¹³ Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

¹⁵ "Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

¹⁷ The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!" ¹⁸ Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. ¹⁹ The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. ²⁰ Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. ²¹ From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,^[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.'

(Revelation 16 NIV)

It starts with the question: Is God rational?

 

Well what is rationality? Simply put, rationality is a consistent behaviour given consistent situations.

 

So, if God is rational, then He will act in a consistent way. This is essential if God is to be good.

 

Take this: God is presented with a situation where there is two choices:

1) Do something Good

2) Do something Evil

 

If God is rational, then He will choose to do good. If He is irrational, then He will randomly choose good sometimes and evil other times.

 

Thus, if God is Good, then He must act rationally. Of course He doesn't have to, only that if He chooses to be Good He must act rationally and thus we can know what God should do if He wishes to be Good (but being omnipotent He is capable of being evil and of choosing not to be).

 

This might be a bit confusing as the logic is fairly complex, but put simply:

 

• Irrational actions don't have consistency.
• An all powerful being must have the ability to be evil.
• A Good being must be rational (so that they consistently choose good).

 

Therefore God, if He is good, must be rational.

 

If God is rational, then we can work out what the rational action would be, and thus the action God would take in that situation.

 

Now, God would not be constrained to only perform these actions, but that if He didn't perform them He would not longer be completely Good (thus Good and Evil for God is a choice, not a necessity). Actually, from this we can conclude that God has free will because if He didn't have the freedom to choose Good or Evil, then He would not be all powerful as He would have a constraint.

 

Now, given all the above, in the following situation what is the rational course of action consistent with being good:

 

You have the power to make the universe anyway you want with any physical laws you want and any restrictions on the inhabitants of that universe that you want.

 

1. Create a universe with suffering
2. Create a universe without suffering

 

As it is possible to create a universe without suffering, then all suffering is unnecessary. Is the deliberate creation of suffering a Good or evil act?

 

If it is an evil act, then God can not be good because He will have made a deliberate and evil act.

 

But, according to Christian doctrine, God will not perform an evil act. But if God created the universe with suffering He will have performed an evil act.

 

This means that the Christian religion is incompatible with a universe that has suffering in it, and as our universe has suffering, then this means the Christian religion can not be true.

 

There is no escape from this. The properties of an omnipotent and good god with a universe that has suffering can not be combined.

 

Now, if God is not Good, or God is not rational; then the universe as it is, is compatible, but the Christian religion states that God is good (and thus rational).

 

If God is not omnipotent; then the universe as it is, is compatible, but the Christian religion states that God is omnipotent.

 

In all debates, if something disagrees with reality, then reality wins. The reality is we live in a universe with suffering and the Christian religion requires us to be in a universe without suffering.

 

As reality always wins: The Christian religion must therefore fail.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genisis3&version=NIV

God didn't want suffering to happen.

All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning." - Alexander Vilenken

 

Does the OP think he is a better physicist than Mr. Vilenken?

 

I can quote you the article on Stephen Hawking website where he explains why the universe has a beginning.

 

Does the OP think he is a better physicist than Mr. Hawking.

 

Or is he just going to ignore the physical evidence just so he does not have to admit that their is a solid case for the existence of God.

 

If scientist in general are like the person who started this thread then I weep for the future of humanity.

I didn't actulally make this thread…

We're talking about two MILLION people here, njaohnt.

 

What are the odds that none of them prayed to have their arms and legs back? What are the odds that none of them are righteous? Many of these are war heroes who fought for your freedom. Are you going to tell me that none of them are worthy in God's eyes? I can understand about God's plan and all, but do you really think that God's plan can cure cancer and diseases and all the miraculous things you claim, but the plan doesn't include anything truly…

Maybe God protected the righteous.

You make me think that. You believe God did all of this, but you aren't even trying to find out just what it is He did. The universe is a masterpiece and you act like there is something wrong with looking at and admiring all the details. God gave you your senses, your brain, and this absolutely phenomenal place to live in and explore. And your response seems to be to cover your eyes and ears, refusing to experience it. Understanding the universe is not a betrayal of God.

 

That is what makes me think you are wasting your view. Life is a wonder. Don't squander it.

I am not covering my eyes.

The fact that science COULD speculate on an actual beginning of the universe but officially DOESN'T should tell you a lot about the integrity of the scientific method, and about the precision of Big Bang Theory. We can measure what happened after the expansion began but only up to a fraction of a fraction of a second after. The initial expansion, right as it first starts, involves too much energy. We can only be sure of what happened once the energy drops to levels we've been able to measure with particle physics experiments, at around 10⁻¹¹ seconds after the event started.

 

Science can say, "Right now, we don't know what actually happened before the universe was 10⁻¹¹ seconds old". It doesn't need to fill that gap with a creator. We're learning more about those kinds of energy levels all the time. Someday the gap will be gone, filled with knowledge and not superstition.

Tell me when that day comes.

I mean you're not here to listen, consider, and debate, you're here to spew YOUR opinion regardless of whatever other people put up in front of you.

 

And I don't believe you read that page, dear sir. From what you're saying, it's quite clear. How about you try?

 

~mooey

Say what you want, it doesn't make it true. Tell me what I probably would have said if I did read them.

Come on, you're not even trying. Take the blinders off and have a look around. It's amazing out there. And if you are right about God it would be a shame if you wasted the view while you are here on earth.

What make you think I'm wasting my view?

Look.

 

You can't come into a science forum and then just refuse to debate. You clearly didn't read a word off that page if this is your answer to it.

What are you afraid of, exactly?

 

 

 

We can't keep discussing when you refuse to cooperate in a discussion, njaoht. That won't be a discussion, it would be you preaching, and that's not just impolite, it's also against the rules.

 

This is your time to decide: Are you here to debate fairly (which means you read our evidence just like we read yours) or are you here to proselytize and preach?

 

You're not going to convince anyone by doing the latter.

 

~mooey

I have read those pages (not in full, but the parts that I thought were interesting, tell me a part that you think I should read[if a place exsists]).

Am I here for preaching? Well that depends on your definition of "preaching". What do you mean?

Basically yes. Other devices connected to my router can pick it up.

How did you set it to stream.

Almost two million people in the US alone (can you imagine how many in other countries where war is more prevalent?) and God hasn't answered any of their prayers to give them back their limbs.

Have they prayed? Are they righteous? I don't think so. Perhaps some, but God's plan might be to not to grow them back.

Now that's just lazy. That's not the only evidence, there are quite a HUGE amount of actual observational and empirical evidence to support the "big bang" theory. The fact you never bothered checking them out doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

You should go over this article:

http://www.talkorigi...my/bigbang.html

 

 

~mooey

Evidence that it came. Evidence of how it came. I could make lots of assumptions of how a lot of thing were made. How they came to be.

Let's take paintings. The earth is very hard to look at the subtlest details of how it could have came, just like the painting that I am looking at now. It is very easy to study it, to see how the artist made it, but there are so many ways that it could have been made, so guess would be wrong. Same thing with the universe.

I'm not. It just automatically does it when my computer is on and unlocked.

But how did you set it to do that?

I don't, but since there's no proof for their existence, we can't say they are either.

Science goes by evidence. There's evidence for the big bang. Where's your evidence for the existence of any form of miracles?

 

You can't use miracle as evidence without having evidence for miracles.

 

 

The only evidence of the Big Bang is that we are here. Same thing with God.

Well, if people losing their limbs is part of God's plan as you suggested, God wanted them to get amputated.

 

And if everything that happens on earth is part of God's plan, he also wanted those abortions.

Perhaps something way worse would if they didn't get amputated. You are saying this like amputees are common, and you at least ten everyday, which you don't.

http://whywontgodhea...m/gods-plan.htm

 

Gotta pull out the why does god hate amputees again:

 

"If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child, the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan. You can also see that all the Christians who are fighting against abortion are missing the point. They are actually fighting against God's plan, and their fight is completely futile. God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] Each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God, so fighting against abortion is a totally wasted effort."

Evil people chose for those abortions. No one wanted the amputees to get amputated (except, perhaps, the Devil). Comparing abortions with amputees is not right.

This is very common. Stress can constrict blood vessels, resulting in a reduced oxygen flow to the muscles, nerves and tendons and that causes acute pain. When the constriction stops, the pain goes away pretty quickly. It happens to me every once in a while.

 

There is absolutely no phenomena you could mention that can't be more easily explained by natural causes than by divine intervention.

 

And as Arete has so beautifully shown, even though the Bible NEVER mentions that God hates amputees, He has never answered any prayers to regrow a limb for one. That's a pretty big exception to the prayer guidelines, isn't it? Wouldn't you think something like that would be mentioned in the Bible, like most of His other rules and laws?

The Bible says that God will fulfil any prayer if:

- they follow Him

- it is in His will

- it will bring glory to Him

Perhaps the amputees are not following God, or maybe they are part of God's plan, that would ruined if they were not amputees.

 

 

That's beside the point. Saying "There is no evidence that they don't exist" is not evidence of their existence.

 

How do you accurately determine whether an event is miraculous, or merely unlikely? To prove it is miraculous you must demonstrate that no possible natural cause could exist.

Could someone's back heal after many days of pain, from a natural causes? I don't think so. Usually it gets better slowly, not suddenly. Does it ever happen overnight after many nights of pain.

1. It's miracle, not miricle. If you have a modern browser it will highlight your misspelled words such as by underlining them in red. Pay attention!

 

2. As far as how do we know that miracles aren't real? We don't. We also don't know if this is all a figment of my imagination (or if I am a figment of yours!). Religious miracles and solipsism are antithetical to science. This is a science discussion board.

1. Miricle is a less popular word for miracle. The browser found it as a word. It is not in many dictionaries that way, but it is still a word.

2. Have you had miracles happen in your life? I have.

That's a nonsensical answer.

 

If you solve any inconsistency with the dismissive "they're miracles" then why even try to fit the biblical story to reality? Just admit it has nothing to do with it and be done with that.

 

You can't eat the cake and leave it whole. Either the bible follows reality, or it doesn't.

How do you know that miricles are not real. There is no evidence that they don't exist(unless you count the fact that perhaps you haven't experienced a miricle as evidence).

And the bible says lots of things that are easily shown to be false, like Noah's Ark and genesis but there are many more and all the murder, genocide, rape, child molestation, seriously evil if god is real.

Where do you did that God was the Evil One in that? Not one of them was God doing, helping, or promoting evil.

what is the Lossless decomposition ?

Decomposition that doesn't lose data(or the data can be restored).

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition_(computer_science)

I'm trying to remove the vocals of a fan-made song for a school extra credit project. Inverting the right channel is not working at all. Is there any better way for this song? (Song is attached)

Try using another program.

How do I stop windows media player streaming to other computers on my network? I would like it to stop streaming to all computers but if possible, I would like it to keep on streaming to my PS3.

Any help would be very appreciated, thanks.

How are you streaming it?

If that is the case then what about other ancient religious texts? Some of them are far older and more complex than the holy bible. Do you give them the same credence as you do the bible?

I have only heard about one that did something. Something a box that didn't have food, and then after they prayed, there was food in it. I've heard of many, and seen many things that God has done. Haven't you?

How arrogant of you to assume you know what I would say!

 

I would NOT say this. I would say, "There isn't ANY hair on the bottom of my feet, there never has been and I don't ever expect there to be".

 

 

Again, I would NOT say that. My stance is that you can't turn lead into gold, you've never been able to prove you can, so why on Earth would anyone ask me why I believe you can?

Pretend that there's evidence.

njaohnt, let make sure I'm not misunderstanding you. You are saying that the fact that such a complex manuscript was written and copied so many times, so long ago, and that the effort of doing so was so great that this is reason to suspect it's true?

It's enough evidence for me.

Not that it really matters, but out of curiosity njaohnt, would I be correct in assuming that you are somewhere between age 11 and 14?

Yes.

1. Are you saying that the bottoms of my feet, which are bald, have a "type of hair" on them?

 

 

2. Theists believe, atheists don't. Stamp collectors collect stamps, not stamp collectors don't. The atheist doesn't even think about God until someone brings it up, much like the guy who doesn't collect stamps doesn't think about collecting stamps. If you had a belief system revolving around turning lead into gold, and I didn't, why on Earth would you say my belief system revolves around NOT believing in alchemy?

1. No, but if someone ask you "what type of hair is on the bottom of your feet", you would say "the bottom of my feet are bald".

2. OK, let's say I had that belief system. You don't. You believe that you can't make gold out of lead. If someone ask you, "how do you believe that njaohnt makes lead into gold", you would say, "I don't believe that". It is a type of belief.