dimreepr

You've framed the problem very well. "I think everyone is always responsible for their actions." the sane ones at least; for want of a better word, some people are weaker than other's. The only legitimate answer is already in place, with varying degree's of success. A police force that treat's everyone as innocent, when doing their job; presenting the suspect to the court's as sympathetically as possible. A judiciary that leaves their bias at the door, and actively seeks fairness in the face of political pressure. A prison service, that treats the inmate as a victim, even when they're being difficult; and actively seeks to rehabilitate. The Nordic country's come closest; unfortunately most of the rest of the world's woefully short of the ideal.

Just a few of the many flavours of ignorance. 😉

Indeed, like me, he was never trained in the art of persuasion and not lucky enough to have a natural bent. Or, he was stumped by the question; but inteligent enough to ask for extra data. I didn't say "is a religion", but, "if we take your words seriously then"; it could be...

Sorry joigus, I'm feeling fuzzy again; the thing about Spock is, he was half human; if we don't question ourselves, how will we know if we're content with that knowledge? Knowledge comes in many flavours. Perhaps: 4. Philosophy is something we all do, but some are better at expressing their findings.

True knowledge sounds awfully religious...

It's a ying and yang sort of thing, in my mind. There is no good or bad, wrong or right, black or white, male or female. It's perfectly possible that a bad attitude can lead to a good outcome (and vice versa), for instance, can we be sure that Hitler didn't lead us to a slightly better world.

I guess that depends on what, we sincerely believe...

It's so much easier to be fearful than reasonable, consequently it's so much easier to teach. Imagine how much better a good education in reason could be? Almost all humans don't want to kill, but those that do often find a way despite your fearful attempts to protect. Imagine if we teach the likes of D Chauvin, to be reasonable rather than fearful; it won't work for everyone, because some bullies have no concept of the line before they go to far, but almost all of us suffer when we do. The take a way here is education. The thing about a holiday/vacation is that it differs from everyday life, imagine how good that must feel, when you're not stopped, on an almost daily basis, by an authority that's not pointing a gun in your face?

And you know that beforehand? (If you see a guy with a set of golf club's, he's often going to play a game of golf.). Do you really not see how damaging that aproach is? Or how easily it can backfire and actually endanger you and yours? If the only way to counter my argument, is to strawman it; I can only imagine the premise is sound.

Please don't just gainsay everything I say, but at least you're consistent, I've never said that nor even vaguely implied it. I said/implied, what I think is basis of justice, "innocent until proven guilty", so unless your proposing to populate the police with a version of Judge Dredd, their JOB is to present the suspect to the court's, with an actual judge. sigh 🙄, I continue to suggest: 1. you don't know they're violent criminal's before you talk to them. 2. they try that approach before they shoot or other wise try to kill them. 3. they discharge they're duties in a fair non biased way. 4. all of the above can be taught without additional funds, or a resident Shifu.

You have not, nice post +1. Are you suggesting the police give them a personal escort?

Why are you so fixated, with the idea that you can control people with force? When it's so much easier, and less dangerous (to everyone), with persuasion? Instead of attacking what I didn't say, please try addressing what I did say; and maybe answer a queation or two, I've asked a few... So you reply to an accusation of hyperbole, with hyperbole. You seem to get most of it, given what you've agreed to in this thread, please help me understand why do you find it so difficult to let go of the illusion of control (being a thing)? History is choc-o-block full of example's. You can't control what people believe with violence and chains, but you can persuade them to believe something else... 😉

If I were the chief of police I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with how many innocent people are being victimized by my police officer's. I would seek to change their attitude towards these innocent people and allow the court's to judge their guilt; the appropriate people doing the appropriate job. Why is it incompetent to assume innocence first? I'm not suggesting a passive approach to every police encounter; If a cop sees a mugger/rapist/murderer committing a crime, or they're being attacked, they should act appropriately and use whatever force is reasonable to arrest them.

All of which are created by the system, and a strong aggresive police force only exacerbates the situation; less aggresion does not equal weakness.

In the context of the thread, the risk is equivalent; it's the aproach to the risk that varied.

You're kidding, right??? 🙄 Do you know how much easier it is to make a bullet proof vest over a stab proof vest?

Do you really think the reality of the situation would be any different, if the gun was substituted by a knife? I've seen a guy get almost killed with an ash-tray...

Perhaps, but systemic racism encompasses all (at least 99.9%), maybe the majority have good intentions, but that doesn't equal a good outcome, if they go in with a bias other than, this human is human and wants to do human things after this encounter; that's the beauty of training/education, we get to understand what a human is.

My bad, I foolishly assumed this is a conversation and that my previous contributions would be taken into account. Perhaps we should try a different approach, maybe focus on de-escalation. Why?

What's your analysis of those figures?

Really, that was my point? I had no idea... It is when filtered by you, stop strawmaning. Perhaps more money is needed to train a correct approach, which has yet to be established, but that doesn't equate to the police needs more money (as the OP suggests) the money they have is more than enough, which has already been established.

How does that argue my point?

Why do they need to spend more money on training with the correct approach? When the money they spend on training the wrong approach, has been so successful in alienating the public.

Yes!!! Was I not clear? They have PPE, they have tazers, they have pepper spray; they lack the correct approach... So unless they want to buy bigger guns; why do they want more money? It was bought by Facebook... 😉