BobbyJoeCool

Ok... let's say you have a mass of 1kg, contained in a single point. by the equation: [math]F=-G\frac{m_{1}m_{2}}{r}[/math] the smaller the r, the larger the force... In fact, [math]\lim_{r\to 0^{+}}{F=-G\frac{m_{1}m_{2}}{r}}=-\infty[/math] So, that means that any mass, if you're close enough to it (as in, like a trillionth of a nanometer) the force will be so great that once again, light would not escape it and an event horizon exists that is astronomically small. Is there something I'm missing here or is this true?

Agreed, neet simulation. And YW. I wish I could explain it better.

Shudder

This is true. The only people I know who support banning gay marrige are religious fanatics. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong on here, but that person will most likely be homophobic and have a somewhat distorted image of what homosexuality is (ie, ALL homosexuals want to have sex with them and are rapists and therefore should be prisoned). I did mention that later in the thread. However, I see what you're saying. Man and woman get married whoaren't in love to get the benifits. Why not man and man or woman and woman? If the govt. doesn't stop men and women from doing it, why should they stop men and men?

Arrrr. Why ist thou pirating fromst the same film as I? Fair warned be ye, says I.

Aye, Avast!

I was doing some calulations for someone showing the point of neutral gravety between two equal sized masses. The vectors from points not between the two masses (I hope that's clear...) all seem to point at the midpoint between the two masses... Is that what happens always? or is it just a conicidence (or misdrawing/calulation on my part)?

Is it not also true that unless near perfect conditions exist, any orbiting body will either escape orbit or crash into the body it is orbiting (be it in 5 seconds or 500 eons..)?

Tycho... This is what you're saying indirectly... Since the singularity is inside the black hole, you can't get any information from it, or about it. However, I know there there is a mass in the center of it (because of it's gravetational effects), and furthermore, I can tell you have much mass given only the diameter (which is twice the radius). [math]v_{e}=\sqrt{\frac{2Gm}{r}}[/math] Source Where [math]v_{e}[/math] is the escape velocity at the event horizon (or the speed of light) G is the gravetational constant (apprx 6.67x10^-11, source also Wikipedia), m is the mass of the singularity, and r is the raduis of the event horizon. [math]c=\sqrt{\frac{2Gm}{r}}[/math] [math]c^2=\frac{2Gm}{r}[/math] [math]rc^2=2Gm[/math] [math]\frac{rc^2}{2G}=m[/math] [math]m=\frac{rc^2}{2G}[/math] r is given, c and G are constants... but this is not possible because the information of the singulatiy cannot escape the black hole's gravitational well... but the ONLY information I know is it's mass. I do not know what it is (matter/anti-matter). In the same way, if some mass falls past the EH, the ONLY information you will ever determine about it is it's mass. And your theorem says that you CAN determine mass... And this is all you know about the object that fell in. Therefore, you know it is there, but you do not know what it is, much like the singularity... how about that? Does that answer you question?

WTF? Why did this post twice? It gave me an error message and said it wasn't posted... delete this (didn't mean to double post)

Yes, when the singularities merge (because at EVERY time before, halfway between the singularities, gravetational force is neutral, and therefore, light could escape from one blackhole, straight into the other. And since, until they merge, there is a midpoint between them, and therefore an internal event horizon. Of course, if you are in this event horizon, you are completely screwed because the black holes will converge on where you are... and thus you cannot escape anyway...

I third that. I've found him very helpful in answering some questions I've had, and he's really nice about it (as long as you aren't trying to prove creation or some such thoery that cannot be scientifically proven because you can't test the theory at all). As Phi said, if he decided to powertrip, Blike can (and will) do something about it.

CAPTAIN!?!?!?!?! When was Rimmer Captain? He was the second lowest ranking memebr of that ship (only second to Lister) Anyway... "But Lisa, maybe if I'm a part of that mob I can steer it in wiser, better directions. Now, where's my giant foam cowboy hat and airhorn?" ~Homer Simpson "Attempted murder, now honestly, what is that? DO they give the nobel prize for attempted chemestry?" ~Sideshow Bob "I have, uh, just learned that many of you are stroking guns. So I will, uh, step aside and open the floor." ~Mayor Quimby

thanks dave! it makes sence, x,y,z (i,j,k)...

I see Mokele is a mod now... congrats.

I have a vague recolection from Pre-Calculus of learning about unit vectors... Vector "i" and "j"... one of which goes from (0,0) to (0,1), the other (0,0) to (1,0). Does any this ring a bell to anyone? and if so, can you tell me which one is which? I can't seem to find it. I think "i" is (0,0) -> (0,1), and "j" is (0,0) -> (1,0). And, is there one of these for the thrid dimention? (eg, from (0,0,0) -> (0,0,1))

In order to escape a gravitational pull you need to reach escape velocity. The greater the gravitational force pulling you down, the larger that speed has to be. OK? In a black hole, the event horizon is the point at which the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light. And since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, nothing can escape once past the event horizon (including light). Does that help you?

What I'm saying is that the information about the mass isn't comming from inside the event horizon... it's comming FROM the event horizon (and it's tiny little buldge) or the gravetational effects outside the event horizon. The actual information from the mass cannot escape and it isn't. but gravety's effects are greatened and thus you know that there is a mass inside at a point other than the singularity. But that's all you would know. You don't directly get information of the mass from the mass, but gravetational effects of the mass. Gravety is not entirly affected by the same laws that mass is (because mass creates gravety...). It's a paradox just as much as the EPR paradox... you aren't directly observing the mass, you observe it's effects on the world around it. You know it's there, but again, that information comes from outside the event horizon. But again, what you're saying is like saying that knowing the black hole exists is not possible because the singularity is inside the event horizon (and thus you can't know the mass is actually there...). As for the wobble of planets, you aren't observing the planets... you observe their effect on the stars they orbit. Gravity does not pull gravety... so gravity can escape from the black hole... (oversimplified). Does that answer your question Tycho?

I thought that it was the sun... that eventually we will be to the sun like the moon is to earth (rotating once with each revolution). ie: one side always facing the object it is orbiting... I assume now that that is completly wrong. Anyone?

Ok... when the two singularities get to the point that it's at the point where the event horizon would be if the other black hole wasn't there (ie, the normal point of no return for light) the event horizon will once again extend all the way around. To show you this... draw the two black holes at any point during the colision. Connect the singularities with a straight line (line a). Draw 4 more lines, 45°*above and below line "a" from each singularity (should be going toward the other black hole. The quadrilateral contained by the points of the singularities and the intersection of the 45° lines with the lines from the other singularity (that's a bit wordy...) is the area in which the gravety of the black holes conflict with eachother... Please note that, this is using vector forces.. at the point of the intersection on the 45° lines, you are being pulled into each black hole (at a 90° angle to eachother) with equil force... The left/right force is negated, but half of that force is pulling you directly between the two blakc holes equil to the force of one of the equil sized black holes, therefore, light still cannot escape the black holes... Does anyone understand what I'm saying?

The event horizon isn't "ripped", just moved. For simplicity, we'll discuss two same sized black holes, both moving directly at the other (ie, the event horizons have equal speed in opposite directions.) As they get closer, there will be a space between the singularities that the gravetational forces equilize (this point is halfway between the event horizons) because each black hole is pulling on you equaly... but here's the thing... you're not seeing into the black hole... you're seeing past the normal event horizon, but you aren't seeing inside the black hole (as the black hole really is only a singularity or near singularity). however, before the singularities actually merge, the black hole forces in every which direction (except bewteen the singularities) is still as strong if not stronger... and before they meet, there actually is an event horizon that is solid shaped on the outside (although not spherical) AND there is another event horizon if you are still between the event horizons... Because both singularities are pulling you (and light) towards it, once they get close enough, they still pull all around it to create a gravetational pull that light cannot escape from. You will never see the singularity unless you want to become a part of it... If that doesn't help, I might be able to make a diagram, scan it and post it... But, it won't be completely accurate (as in persice...) but it will get the point across...

Not directly, but it makes things a lot easier and simpler, because married couples can file jointly, people who live together and are not married cannot. Says the United States Constitiution.