Relationship between Sexual Orientation and Transgender

[zapatos]

Do sexual orientation and transgender lie on the same spectrum, or are sexual identity and gender identity two separate things?

 

For example, is there one large spectrum that has on one end heterosexuals, then homosexuals further down the spectrum with a range in between the two, then transgender at the other end? Or is there a spectrum covering sexual orientation (from heterosexual to homosexual), where anyone on that spectrum could also fall anywhere on a gender identity spectrum?

 

I've always thought of these as being two different things, but wondered if perhaps a homosexual who shows very masculine/feminine traits normally associated with the other gender, might be a "step away" (pardon my lack of proper phrasing) from being transgender.

[iNow]

By no means do I consider myself an expert (or even an informed amateur) in this space, but I see them as separate and largely independent.

 

One is about who we're attracted to, where we feel most connected to others, and what triggers a yearning and/or unconscious sexual intimacy within us.

 

The other is about how we identify ourselves, is often much more about outward physical appearance, and how we wish others to perceive us.

 

Happy to be corrected, though, and to hear thoughts from others.

[Daecon]

If they were all part of a single spectrum, where would transgender homosexuals fall on this scale?

 

 

[iNow]

The spectrum is not singular

 

[Function]

I too think that they are both to be considered as fully independent from one another.

 

Let's see what I remember from the sexuology course last semester ...

First, we have transgenders. I'd like to point out an important difference, though, between transsexuality and transgenderism:

First of all, it's important to note that in transsexuals and transgenders, there is an important discrepancy between their gender identity (the strong belief of feeling and, more importantly, 'being' male or female) and their biological sex.

 

Transsexuals have the strong belief of being 'given' the wrong biological sex. These thoughts are very clear, non ambiguous/ambivalent and are permanent. They are most likely willing to undergo very profound steps to change their biological sex, such as hormone therapies and, the most drastic resolution, surgery.

 

Transgenders have the same discrepancy between their gender identity and their biological sex. However, their thoughts and feelings are not as clear; they are quite ambivalent and have a rather temporary character and will most likely not get medical treatment to change their biological sex.

 

Very important to note is that they are convinced that they are male, but given a female body, or vice versa.

 

Sexual orientation is defined as the manner in which a person feels attracted to the same, or the opposite sex. This is completely independent of the biological sex. Yet, one should notice that the sexual orientation is solely dependent on gender identity, and not on biological sex.

 

I'd like to point out the independency with an example.

 

Consider 2 men.

Man A: this man feels solely attracted to other men, and has no sexual interest in women. Psychologically, he feels male: no discrepancy between his gender identity and biological sex. He is, most likely, homosexual.

'Man' B: this man feels solely attracted to other men, and has no sexual interest in women. Psychologically, he has always felt female; a strong discrepancy exists between his (her) gender identity and biological sex. (S)he is undergoing medical treatment in order to change his (her) biological sex. She is, most likely, heterosexual.

 

Numerous combinations exist ...

Edited July 7, 2016 by Function

[zapatos]

I've read a few accounts of women who knew they were attracted to women early in life, and only later concluded they were transsexual. This led to a situation where a female homosexual transitioned into a male heterosexual.

 

I also suspect that there are people who appear to someone on the outside to be, for example, butch lesbians, but are in reality transgender. I say this because both types of people might exhibit similar behaviors, one because of gender expression, and the other because of gender identity as part of an associated transition to the opposite sex.

 

It looks as if any possible combination of identity, expression, sex, and attraction that you can conceive, is probably exhibited by someone, somewhere.

[Function]

I've read a few accounts of women who knew they were attracted to women early in life, and only later concluded they were transsexual. This led to a situation where a female homosexual transitioned into a male heterosexual.

 

I also suspect that there are people who appear to someone on the outside to be, for example, butch lesbians, but are in reality transgender. I say this because both types of people might exhibit similar behaviors, one because of gender expression, and the other because of gender identity as part of an associated transition to the opposite sex.

 

It looks as if any possible combination of identity, expression, sex, and attraction that you can conceive, is probably exhibited by someone, somewhere.

 

Generally, people do not 'discover' that they are, or should be, transsexual or not: they have the undeniable feeling and thoughts of being a certain sex (male/female), yet being given another biological sex; normally, transsexuals already experience the feelings of discrepancy between gender identity and biological sex when they are very young. They may have decided in a later stage to undergo medical solutions to reduce that discrepancy, but the psychological gender identity is present from the moment they develop their 'child sexuality'.

 

I'm not sure what you try to say with your second paragraph, but it seems to me that it is important to note something known as gender roles; a specific set of expectations concerning male and female behaviourism in a society. Gender roles are basically caused by, and 'the fault' of others, and should not have any implications on the gender identity: whether a person is being considered lesbian or not, or transsexual or not, based on what you call 'similar behaviours', is not their 'fault', but a consequence of stereotype thoughts of society, the gender roles. I know plenty women with, conform what I call gender roles, a rather "masculine" behaviour, yet they are not transsexual, do have the female gender identity and are heterosexual.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Function

[zapatos]

 

Gender roles are basically caused by, and 'the fault' of others, and should not have any implications on the gender identity: whether a person is being considered lesbian or not, or transsexual or not, based on what you call 'similar behaviours', is not their 'fault', but a consequence of stereotype thoughts of society, the gender roles.

Agreed. I think part of the reason I raised the question in the OP was because I saw a similar behavior in two different people (lesbian and transgender) and thus wondered if they could have similar causes. The answer seems to be a rather emphatic "NO".