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drawback of conservation law ?


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#1 URAIN

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:39 PM

Law of conservation states that total amount of energy and matter in this universe will be conserved.

science knows that living organism also contain or made of energy and matter but by this conservation law science does not says

living organism also conserve. what is your thought about it ?
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#2 mississippichem

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:43 PM

Law of conservation states that total amount of energy and matter in this universe will be conserved.

science knows that living organism also contain or made of energy and matter but by this conservation law science does not says

living organism also conserve. what is your thought about it ?


Thermodynamics applies everywhere in the universe that we are aware of today. Living organisms do not violate energy conservation laws. Living things simply take in chemicals and react those
chemicals to make products that have a lower energy of formation. We take the excess energy and convert it to mechanical energy to move muscles that move bones etc...
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#3 URAIN

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:48 PM

Thermodynamics applies everywhere in the universe that we are aware of today. Living organisms do not violate energy conservation laws. Living things simply take in chemicals and react those
chemicals to make products that have a lower energy of formation. We take the excess energy and convert it to mechanical energy to move muscles that move bones etc...



Do you say that science accepts the living organism also conserved and there is a chance of reincarnation.
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#4 Fuzzwood

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:54 PM

There is no soul or anything like that accepted in the scientific world. Your entire concious is based on neurons firing electrical impulses and chemically based links between those neurons. Can you please get to the point you are trying to make?

Life is no special thing, it's simply a prolonged mix of chemical reactions.
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#5 mississippichem

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 06:37 PM

Do you say that science accepts the living organism also conserved and there is a chance of reincarnation.


Don't know what you are on about. If it involves reincarnation it's best that you wait until you have the minimum number of posts to post in the religion forum. We don't discuss such things here in the science sections of SFN as they are not science.
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You've come a long way. Remember back when we defined what a velocity meant? Now we are talking about an antisymmetric tensor of second rank in four dimensions.

-Feynman Lectures on Physics II


#6 URAIN

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 05:25 AM

If you think reincarnation is not come in science, leave it. I will not argue with you. For this don't send mePosted Image from out of wise peoples.


Other side i asked about conservation of living organism Fuzzwood replied & given a scientific reply. I received it.

I am writing something, actually it is written. Now translating it to English for global readers. I am taking care about anything wrong not come from me. Fuzzwood said his scientific opinion. If you or any one knows about conservation of living organism scientifically pls reply.

My another question, it may correct for another topic. But asking here.

Science is developed from questioning natural phenomena. For example
Why apple falling towards earth from plant ? ect......

Like this if we questioned, why energy/mass of matter conserved ? then what will be the answer. (For questioning this, I got answer for the question, How energy/matter conserved)

One answer may be, energy neither created or destroyed therefore it conserved. Is there any other answer. Because I think it's not say correct natural phenomena.

(I am not hiding a big secretPosted Image, in shortly I will make it public. One link will paste here and I request you to read and send to content interested peoples)


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#7 swansont

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:59 AM

All continuous symmetries correspond to a conservation law, and vice-versa, as shown in Noether's theorems. Energy conservation is a consequence of the invariance under time translations.

http://en.wikipedia....ation_of_energy
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#8 URAIN

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:22 PM

All continuous symmetries correspond to a conservation law, and vice-versa, as shown in Noether's theorems. Energy conservation is a consequence of the invariance under time translations.

http://en.wikipedia....ation_of_energy




Do you give any example? for understanding it in right manner.

From reading it generally, I got that, if system is continuous equivalence (symmetry) then corresponding quantities whose values are conserved.

or

When a given transformation is applied then the nature of a quantity or property of function remains unchanged this is the invariance.

Noethers theorem states that every case of invariance in physics there exist a unique conservation law.

I am receiving answer from noethers theorem, for the question "why energy/mass conserved?" that, at first if system is in equivalence transformation then energy/mass conserved.

Did it is saying, our universe is in continuous equivalence transformation.

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#9 ajb

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:39 PM

Basically if your theory is invariant under time translations then you have a conserved quantity which we call the energy.

In a similar way, if your theory is invariant under spacial translations then you have a conserved quantity which we call (linear) momentum.
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#10 URAIN

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:52 PM

how we know this huge universe which containing countless galaxies is invariant?
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#11 michel123456

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:06 PM

how we know this huge universe which containing countless galaxies is invariant?


It is thought that we are actually in a random place inside the universe. Nothing special about us. As a consequence, it is supposed that the laws of physics that we observe around us are the same anywhere else. The law of conservation of energy for example has never been transgressed so far, so we assume the law of conservation of energy is applicable everywhere in the universe and as an extrapolation is also applicable at the universe as a whole.
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Michel what have you done?


#12 swansont

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:38 PM

how we know this huge universe which containing countless galaxies is invariant?

We can look at spectra from distant sources, and they do not vary from what you'd expect from known physics — you get relativistic corrections, just as you'd expect, in accordance with known physics. You can also measure effects from the past, as with the Oklo reactor, to see that physics hasn't changed here over time.
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#13 URAIN

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Posted 1 August 2011 - 07:00 PM

Take it with cool. Here I am expressing scientific thoughts only. I think science is a search of truth.

Here I am not saying that this universe is varies. But the saying law of conservation energy applicable "everywhere" is only the belief. Because, if science accepts anything then, it first assume that, then after check it. By checking if it found correct with that individuals then only accept that, those assumptions are correct. Scientific thinking directly will not accept the unknowings by beliefs. For example it does not accept religion belief, that lives existence exist after death also. Then from this belief scientific thinkers will not accept that belief about invariant of unknown universe (unknown galaxies) is also correct.

By past experience we may assume that this is applicable to everywhere in unidentified places also. But as per scientific thinking we can't give confirmation for saying unknown universe is also invariant.Please call the invariance of the universe is an assumption or this is belief,before getting a strong base for it.


Edited by URAIN, 1 August 2011 - 07:04 PM.

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#14 swansont

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Posted 1 August 2011 - 11:23 PM

Take it with cool. Here I am expressing scientific thoughts only. I think science is a search of truth.

Here I am not saying that this universe is varies. But the saying law of conservation energy applicable "everywhere" is only the belief. Because, if science accepts anything then, it first assume that, then after check it. By checking if it found correct with that individuals then only accept that, those assumptions are correct. Scientific thinking directly will not accept the unknowings by beliefs. For example it does not accept religion belief, that lives existence exist after death also. Then from this belief scientific thinkers will not accept that belief about invariant of unknown universe (unknown galaxies) is also correct.

By past experience we may assume that this is applicable to everywhere in unidentified places also. But as per scientific thinking we can't give confirmation for saying unknown universe is also invariant.Please call the invariance of the universe is an assumption or this is belief,before getting a strong base for it.


But it has been tested, so this would seem to be a non sequitur.
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#15 URAIN

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Posted 4 August 2011 - 09:56 PM

But it has been tested, so this would seem to be a non sequitur.



Do you not think, I have said the same thing; what michel123456 said.
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#16 swansont

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Posted 4 August 2011 - 10:08 PM

Do you not think, I have said the same thing; what michel123456 said.


I don't see where michel said it was belief. It seems to me that you did, unless I misunderstood what you wrote.
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum          To go to the fortress of ultimate darkness, click the up arrow ^

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#17 URAIN

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Posted 4 August 2011 - 10:46 PM

Following are the michel words "we assume the law of conservation of energy is applicable everywhere in the universe and as an extrapolation is also applicable at the universe as a whole.".

michel said "we assume conservation law applicable every where". But you are saying "this law applicable every where" in the perfect tone.

Do you know? there is something, by which, without any assumption or without using any measure effects from past, we can say this universe is invariant with perfect tone, the unknown galaxies or unknown universe too invariant.

Edited by URAIN, 5 August 2011 - 12:33 AM.

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Thanks to all who are guiding me.

#18 swansont

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Posted 5 August 2011 - 11:29 AM

No physical laws have been tested at every point. Has anyone done a rigorous test to see that gravity is valid in your place of residence? Probably not. But it has been tested elsewhere, enough for us to assume that when an object falls, gravity is the cause.
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#19 J.C.MacSwell

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Posted 5 August 2011 - 11:52 AM

No physical laws have been tested at every point. Has anyone done a rigorous test to see that gravity is valid in your place of residence? Probably not. But it has been tested elsewhere, enough for us to assume that when an object falls, gravity is the cause.


I have. The gravitational constant there seems to be rising slowly. There is a lot of fluctuation, oddly enough especially after changes in my diet. (Have not resolved any direct connection at this point and it may be just coincidence)
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#20 URAIN

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Posted 7 August 2011 - 06:48 PM

I have. The gravitational constant there seems to be rising slowly. There is a lot of fluctuation, oddly enough especially after changes in my diet. (Have not resolved any direct connection at this point and it may be just coincidence)




Dear friends thank you for giving response.

In shortly I will post a principle, by which any one may say this universe is invariant with a perfect tone, without any assumption or beyond of measure effects from past. By this you will accept the unknown universe also invariant with a perfection.

The url is http://baseforreinca...n.wordpress.com after posting article I will again inform you


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Your's is energy, mine is space.


WWW.SPACEANDCONSENSUS.WORDPRESS.COM

http://baseforreinca....wordpress.com/


I have to understand the Physics and being get related with Physics.

Thanks to all who are guiding me.




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