Basic Energy Questions

[allopoietic]

The dictionary definition of energy isn't very helpful: "The ability to do work." As you get into what work is and what matter is, the definition becomes circular. It seems to mean something like, "Energy is the ability to make a change in energy." I am not expecting a better answer. I don't think anyone has one, but I still have questions about what we do know.

 

Thermodynamics, rule one: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

My understanding: The universe comes self-contained, and equipped with a large but finite amount of energy that makes everything, and causes all events.

My question: How does primal energy divide to fill space? Is there one quanta at the start with an unimaginably high frequency that splits to cause events, or is primal energy composed of, say, 10^75 quantum all packed into the same dimensionless point, and each with some initial maximum frequency at the highest range of Gamma rays?

 

Rule two: The entropy of the universe never decreases.

My understanding: a) Energy causes lots of events per space-time interval in the beginning, but as space-time numbers increase the averages of energy events per unit of time and space decrease. Eventually they approach zero. b) As energy moves from vigor to lassitude, it changes direction randomly causing matter and energy to move away from order toward disorder. Everything gets more, and more mixed up as time progresses.

My question: Do quantum maintain their individuality?

If I could somehow slap a label on a quanta of heat from a fire, and then if I reverse time, could I follow it backwards to the beginning? (In my mind's eye I would see its frequency increase as an elevation in the electromagnetic force of an atom, and then as a photon going back toward the sun, and then as an increasingly intense photon doing its random walk backwards toward some proton in the heart of the sun. By the time it reaches the proton its energy has elevated to gamma ray level and it would enter proton radius to become the lone down quark chasing two up quarks inside.)

 

Are quarks composed of many quantum, or are they one quanta with very, very high frequency?

[mathematic]

You are using the term "quantum" as if it were a unit of something. This is unusual.

[swansont]

You are using the term "quantum" as if it were a unit of something. This is unusual.

It's entirely appropriate. Quantum can be a noun, the plural is quanta; the OP has reversed this usage. That's really the only thing that's unusual.

 

————

 

Regarding the OP:

I'm not aware of any treatment that looks at the number of quanta present.

 

Energy is a scalar - it does not have a direction.

 

Elementary particles are indistinguishable and bosons can be created or destroyed at any stage in an interaction.

[mathematic]

It's entirely appropriate. Quantum can be a noun, the plural is quanta; the OP has reversed this usage. That's really the only thing that's unusual.

 

————

 

Regarding the OP:

I'm not aware of any treatment that looks at the number of quanta present.

 

Energy is a scalar - it does not have a direction.

 

Elementary particles are indistinguishable and bosons can be created or destroyed at any stage in an interaction.

My objection was not grammatical. What is the definition of a quantum as a unit of something? What is the something?

[swansont]

My objection was not grammatical. What is the definition of a quantum as a unit of something? What is the something?

It's not being used as a unit. "One quantum of energy" is simply saying the energy (however much there is) is associated with one particle.

[allopoietic]

It's entirely appropriate. Quantum can be a noun, the plural is quanta; the OP has reversed this usage. That's really the only thing that's unusual.

 

————

 

Regarding the OP:

I'm not aware of any treatment that looks at the number of quanta present.

 

Energy is a scalar - it does not have a direction.

 

Elementary particles are indistinguishable and bosons can be created or destroyed at any stage in an interaction.

 

 

 

We see how fusion in the sun converts a small amount of mass and liberates it as a high energy photon, a gamma ray. The gamma ray may only travel a few mm. before it is absorbed and emitted again in a new direction at a slightly lower frequency. I recall that the random walk of the energy takes about fifteen thousand years to reach the solar surface, and by that time the frequency of the photons being emitted is that of visible light at 5780 K. I think you are saying the phrase "random walk of a gamma ray" is a figure of speech. Energy makes the journey, but not as a particular or individual stuff that we could follow. Perhaps, it is like energy in a water surface wave: you can see the wave traveling toward the shore, but you cannot find a particular something in the wave that causes the moving shape.

[swansont]

We see how fusion in the sun converts a small amount of mass and liberates it as a high energy photon, a gamma ray. The gamma ray may only travel a few mm. before it is absorbed and emitted again in a new direction at a slightly lower frequency. I recall that the random walk of the energy takes about fifteen thousand years to reach the solar surface, and by that time the frequency of the photons being emitted is that of visible light at 5780 K. I think you are saying the phrase "random walk of a gamma ray" is a figure of speech. Energy makes the journey, but not as a particular or individual stuff that we could follow. Perhaps, it is like energy in a water surface wave: you can see the wave traveling toward the shore, but you cannot find a particular something in the wave that causes the moving shape.

Photons make the journey; energy is a property of the photons. Energy is a scalar.

[mathematic]

It's not being used as a unit. "One quantum of energy" is simply saying the energy (however much there is) is associated with one particle.

10^75 quantum

 

Could you clarify your explanation in reference to the above quote from the original question.

[swansont]

Could you clarify your explanation in reference to the above quote from the original question.

The question was about whether there was e.g. one photon (the quantum of electromagnetic field/interaction) or there were 10^75 photons.

[allopoietic]

The question was about whether there was e.g. one photon (the quantum of electromagnetic field/interaction) or there were 10^75 photons.

 

Energy still remains elusive. I think that the word "quantum," as you said, refers to the scalar nature of energy: that it does not increase or decrease gradually. It jumps up or down by whole quantum increments. My question was aimed at determining if energy is a single item divided or many items associated. According to the Standard Model, in the beginning all energy was in one place—a point smaller than a period. Today all the energy is still in one place; the place is a good deal bigger, and we are inside it. As we observe reality we see manifestations of energy as a gamma ray coming in from a supernova, or a light ray from the sun, or heat from a candle. These photons are of different frequencies, and carry different capacity to make change in the environment, but are they discrete or connected or both discrete and connected? Is all energy connected in a single field like a great tossing sea throughout the universe, or do we actually experience discrete energy stuff?

 

At the international science fair, one scientists described reality as possibly an ancestor simulation run by beings of the post human condition. On the inside of the universe can we tell if ours is a truly objective existence, or if energy is merely data in a very detailed simulation?

[swansont]

Energy still remains elusive. I think that the word "quantum," as you said, refers to the scalar nature of energy: that it does not increase or decrease gradually. It jumps up or down by whole quantum increments. My question was aimed at determining if energy is a single item divided or many items associated. According to the Standard Model, in the beginning all energy was in one place—a point smaller than a period. Today all the energy is still in one place; the place is a good deal bigger, and we are inside it. As we observe reality we see manifestations of energy as a gamma ray coming in from a supernova, or a light ray from the sun, or heat from a candle. These photons are of different frequencies, and carry different capacity to make change in the environment, but are they discrete or connected or both discrete and connected? Is all energy connected in a single field like a great tossing sea throughout the universe, or do we actually experience discrete energy stuff?

 

As far as we can tell, discrete and not connected.

[derek w]

If I take a singularity and extend it in a straight line to a length ©,then extend that line to create a square (c x c),then extend that surface to create a cube

(c x c x c).Can I then say that this space contains (c x c x c) metres of energy/sec?

Edited October 31, 2011 by derek w