swansont Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 But what they see before coloring her must have color, maybe gray color. No, color is limited to the visible spectrum. Light outside of that range does not have a color. Other subatomic particles do not have a color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) No, color is limited to the visible spectrum. Light outside of that range does not have a color. Other subatomic particles do not have a color. Then they see when colliding atoms in a particle accelerator. A black screen without colors! Edited July 30, 2011 by Victor Elias Espinoza G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Then they see when colliding atoms in a particle accelerator. A black screen without colors! They don't see anything. They use machines and equipment to translate the data. Later they use a computer to *draw* what the numbers say. There's no color in the actual results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 They don't see anything. They use machines and equipment to translate the data. Later they use a computer to *draw* what the numbers say. There's no color in the actual results. I've read they have seen photons and this they have done with cameras that you capture 40 million pictures per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) Victor, if I paint a set of parallel lines on a piece of glass and pass a beam of light through it the light is split into different colours. There's a picture of the effect here, but it doesn't tell the whole story, there are actually 2 spectra on each side of the image (as well as the white one in the middle). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Light-bulb-grating.png Can you explain these 4 images please? Edited July 30, 2011 by John Cuthber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I've read they have seen photons and this they have done with cameras that you capture 40 million pictures per second. Where have you read this? Can you give us the link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Then they see when colliding atoms in a particle accelerator. A black screen without colors! You detect an electronic signal. You might have a scintillation detector, which causes a photon to be emitted, but any color involved is as a result of the detector, not the incoming particle. You might have a microchannel plate, which amplifies the signal of an incoming charged particle. That's translated into a display. No color involved. Similarly for all of the types of detectors used that are not detecting visible light. Any coloring of the display is added in at some step after the detection. Even a CRT does not involve color until the electron hits a phosphor on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Where have you read this? Can you give us the link? An image of collision of atoms made with spark chambers: For example: http://en.Wikipedia....i/Spark_chamber They don't see anything. They use machines and equipment to translate the data. Later they use a computer to *draw* what the numbers say. There's no color in the actual results. I was reading the page of detectors that use the particle colliders and data collection said that there were photons in collisions of atoms and why they paint them for us. I think the data detector tells scientists the color of the photon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 An image of collision of atoms made with spark chambers: For example: http://en.Wikipedia....i/Spark_chamber The picture in there has no color.. It's just white lines, and if you read the descriptions, you can see it has nothing to do with color. I was reading the page of detectors that use the particle colliders and data collection said that there were photons in collisions of atoms and why they paint them for us. I think the data detector tells scientists the color of the photon. You may think so, but that's wrong. As many scientists in this forum tell you, there's no color in the detectors' data. The data is way above or below the visible spectrum. "Colors" are strictly defined IN the visible spectrum, so the data doesn't have color at ALL. The fact there are drawings produced according to the data and are dyed to make things easier to read does not mean there's color in the original data. ~mooey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 The picture in there has no color.. It's just white lines, and if you read the descriptions, you can see it has nothing to do with color. You may think so, but that's wrong. As many scientists in this forum tell you, there's no color in the detectors' data. The data is way above or below the visible spectrum. "Colors" are strictly defined IN the visible spectrum, so the data doesn't have color at ALL. The fact there are drawings produced according to the data and are dyed to make things easier to read does not mean there's color in the original data. ~mooey If there are 2 colors: black and white, remember that there is a black and white pencil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 If there are 2 colors: black and white, remember that there is a black and white pencil. Black and white aren't colors. Black is no-clor and white is all-colors. And regardless, the picture isn't showing the colors of the beams, it's showing the PATH. It's a generated photo. Victor, I'm curious, and I mean no disrespect, but can you tell me what level of physics classes did you take so far in school? What grade are you in right now? This will help getting you some more information. Also, I think there might be a small language barrier here.. out of curiosity, where are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Black and white aren't colors. Black is no-clor and white is all-colors. And regardless, the picture isn't showing the colors of the beams, it's showing the PATH. It's a generated photo. Victor, I'm curious, and I mean no disrespect, but can you tell me what level of physics classes did you take so far in school? What grade are you in right now? This will help getting you some more information. Also, I think there might be a small language barrier here.. out of curiosity, where are you from? If we put a Prism in the following image obtained by a Collider of atoms, we will obtain colors.... I'm T.S.U. in computer science I saw physical 1,2 and 3 (Basic) but I've learned the most reading in Internet. I currently have a parking for cars and I same I am the watchman. As security guard work in my own parking. I'm from Valencia, Venezuela. And you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 That image is merely a record of the tracks of various particles. It is not a picture of those particles; it's like a map or a diagram of a battlefield, showing where the troops moved. One could draw it with purple lines, or green dashed lines with shading, or anything else -- it's a representation of information, not a picture of atoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 That image is merely a record of the tracks of various particles. It is not a picture of those particles; it's like a map or a diagram of a battlefield, showing where the troops moved. One could draw it with purple lines, or green dashed lines with shading, or anything else -- it's a representation of information, not a picture of atoms. According to the website where it appears is a colición of atoms...See the following link: http://en.Wikipedia....i/Spark_chamber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 According to the website where it appears is a colición of atoms...See the following link: http://en.Wikipedia....i/Spark_chamber Spark chambers consists of metal plates placed in a sealed box filled with a gas such as helium, neon or a mixture of the two. As a charged particle travels through the detector, it ionizes the gas between the plates. A trigger system, often a scintillator, detects the passing of a particle. High voltage is then immediately applied to the plates creating an electric field. This produces sparks where the gas was ionized, along the trajectory of the particle. The particles create sparks owing to ionization. The image is a picture of that. You see color through a prism because you are shining visible light on it. Visible light has colors, and you decompose the light into the colors with the prism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I'm T.S.U. in computer science I saw physical 1,2 and 3 (Basic) but I've learned the most reading in Internet. Okay, I asked this to see if you had any classes about the basics of optics? Did you learn about radio waves and the electromagnetic spectrum? "Colors" is something that is produced in our brain as a response to specific part of the EM spectrum. There's no color "beyond" that range, but the waves are still the same EM waves. I currently have a parking for cars and I same I am the watchman. As security guard work in my own parking. I'm from Valencia, Venezuela. And you? Ah, hola! I'm in New York currently. Welcome to the forum. ~mooey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Okay, I asked this to see if you had any classes about the basics of optics? Did you learn about radio waves and the electromagnetic spectrum? "Colors" is something that is produced in our brain as a response to specific part of the EM spectrum. There's no color "beyond" that range, but the waves are still the same EM waves. Ah, hola! I'm in New York currently. Welcome to the forum. ~mooey You have picture, to see if you are pretty...I have a facebook and is "Victor Elias Espinoza Guedez", but I can also find my email ***EMAIL REMOVED BY MODERATOR*** en facebook. -3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 You have picture, to see if you are pretty...I have a facebook and is "Victor Elias Espinoza Guedez", but I can also find my email**** en facebook. .... yeah, no, see, that would be taking my "welcome" too far. How 'bout we stick to the science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 .... yeah, no, see, that would be taking my "welcome" too far. How 'bout we stick to the science. Okey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Speaking of science Victor, could you answer the question I asked please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Speaking of science Victor, could you answer the question I asked please? What is the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 This question: Victor, if I paint a set of parallel lines on a piece of glass and pass a beam of light through it the light is split into different colours. There's a picture of the effect here, but it doesn't tell the whole story, there are actually 2 spectra on each side of the image (as well as the white one in the middle). http://en.wikipedia....ulb-grating.png Can you explain these 4 images please? I will wait with mine (still awaiting an answer) 'till AFTER you answer this one. ~mooey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) This question: I will wait with mine (still awaiting an answer) 'till AFTER you answer this one. ~mooey Find it me interesting your question and the image, but I do not understand your question. I can improve the question to see if I can find an answer. Edited July 31, 2011 by Victor Elias Espinoza G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 These are three EQUAL sources of light. And yet, we see different types of "color" smear on all three. EXPLAIN THE PICTURE: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Elias Espinoza G. Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 These are three EQUAL sources of light. And yet, we see different types of "color" smear on all three. EXPLAIN THE PICTURE: I think 3 sources of light are a candle fire. I've been studying what is fire and came to the conclusion that the fire is a microscopic short-circuit of the energy released by the atoms to the burn. It is likely that each candle has different colors, everything depends on the color released by the atoms to the burn. A bulb does not release colors as. a candle. because a bulb is not burning atoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts