AtomicMX Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Hmmm.... you see dreamlord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicMX Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Do you know the difference between theory and hypothesis? did not say "they wouldn't hold", I said that I did not see why they would apply, hence the working through that we have been doing. I think i am understanding you point, the trick here is that, the things that are already are, if we get another universe with another characteristics, the laws for our matter and kind of energy in that universe had to apply but yet you could find another laws and rules. (for that universe behavior and stuff).. But the laws had to apply because they are laws. Multiuniverse does not exist. (nor parallel) I was thinking of it as gallaxies... what do you mean with another universe. If you want to search for the wrong wormhole "theory" search for rose-einstein bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Do you know the difference between theory and hypothesis? Yes I do. People believe there are wormholes in our universe. It's whether or not we ourselves can create one or not. And the hard part is actually finding a wormhole and figuring out exactly what they do. Multiuniverse does not exist. (nor parallel)I was thinking of it as gallaxies... Do you know the difference between law and theory? Can you prove to me that there is only one universe? You cannot prove or disprove that there are multiple universes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 can you give me a definition of a universe where there can be more than one? please don't go into a tangent. it has happened too many times. oh, the memories, bad memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Heres some stuff on it: http://www.space.com/spacelibrary/books/library_rees_020104.html The thing is with our universe, it had a begining, and will have an end. It does not have an infinite ammount of space, it is not "forever". So why shouldn't there be other universes? In the "nothingness" outside our own universe, who's to say what's out there. And what about before our universe? And what about after it's gone? Can you honestly say there is nothing outside our own universe? That before and after our universe there was and will be nothing? Who are we to say things like this? No, I can't prove the multiverse theory. But can you give me proof that there is only one universe and could not be more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 that's it. IN the NOTHINGNESS. how can something be in nothing? now, NO TANGENTS, PLEASE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 What I was saying is how can we say there is nothing? How can we think that outside there universe there is simply "nothing". How do we know what's out there? We've never been there, we've never seen it. Can you prove there is "nothing" out there? Can you prove that before our universe there was "nothing", or that after our universe there will be "nothing". My point is if one universe came out of this "nothing", why couldn't others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 there is no outside. the universe is everything. unless you have another definition, THIS IS THE END OF THIS TANGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 The universe is not everything!!! Prove that! Can you? It had a begining, will have an end, and is expanding (and some day will shrink). How can you say something that began and ended can be "Everything"?! What came before? What will come after? Something has to come after! There is no "nothing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 there was no before. time is part of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Time is not part of the universe. Time is endless. The universe is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 time is one of the extended 4 dimensions. therefore it is part of the universe. If you want to continue to debate about whether or not other universes exist, go to the multiverse thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 First, I think that time is up for interptetation. And I think you brought up the argument on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 if you want to argue about time, there are several threads for that. i also said "NO TANGENTS" that means NO BLOODY TANGENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! any further progress on this tangent will result in you being beaten to death with a bucket full of japanese spanners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicMX Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 The universe is not everything!!! Prove that! Thats some sort of the concept of universe. and the universe is finite, so it has and end.. I do not see why does finite and everything contradicts. Read this. About the things you "can't" disprove. The Principle of Parsimony "Parsimony means "Adoption of the simplest assumption in the formulation of a theory or in the interpretation of data". This principle is is very important in logic. It is a way of narrowing down several possible answers to a particular question and determining which one is most likely to be correct. Basically it states that the simplest answer is most likely to be the correct answer. More specifically, the explanation which makes the least number of unproven assumptions is most likely to be the correct answer. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicMX Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 If you feel yourself as a scientist, you should have already known that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicMX Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Yes I do. People believe there are wormholes in our universe. It's whether or not we ourselves can create one or not. And the hard part is actually finding a wormhole and figuring out exactly what they do. I am still waiting for your mathematical explanation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 "Parsimony means "Adoption of the simplest assumption in the formulation of a theory or in the interpretation of data". This principle is is very important in logic. It is a way of narrowing down several possible answers to a particular question and determining which one is most likely to be correct. Basically it states that the simplest answer is most likely to be the correct answer. More specifically' date=' the explanation which makes the least number of unproven assumptions is most likely to be the correct answer. "[/quote'] You cannot prove the theroy wrong or right! That's what I'm saying. We have no way of knowing! If you feel yourself as a scientist, you should have already known that. Did I ever say I was a scientist? Please tell me when I said that. I am still waiting for your mathematical explanation.... Do you want me to find the bloody formula the scientist devoloped! I can find you numerous articles about the mathematical formula! I''ve already posted a link to one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamLord Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Thats some sort of the concept of universe.and the universe is finite' date=' so it has and end...[/quote'] That should've been worded differently. Like: "The universe is not everything. Can you prove that it is?" If you'd read the rest of the posts you'd see I obviously do not believe that the universe is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 that's it. IN the NOTHINGNESS. how can something be in nothing? Well... this one is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maelstrom Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Hey just wondering, but if a wormhole was actually created somehow, and it was stabble enough to go through and all that other stuff, i have a question about it. there is a theory that the faster you travel through the worm hole, the longer it takes you to come out the other side, and vice versa. so therefore, if you travel through the wormhole at an infinite speed, you will come out with and infinitley long amount of time having passed. also, if you travel through so that you come out the otherside instantaniously, and infinitley long amout of time will have elapsed for you. therefore, by finding the midway point between these times, so that it takes the same amount of time for the journey on the outside to the time it takes inside the wormhole. BUT, if you divide infinity by 2, you still have infinity. how would this work, or have i got this totally wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Where did you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 yourdadonapogos, you are right, a suitible definition of the universe is;everything. However there could be other everythings, other zones of space-time, other bubbles that 'decay' out of a false vacuum, other incarnations of our universe (our's in the sense that it is our everything). One can also talk about 'other' universes in the sense of cyclical universes. Sure, for each sequential universe, time has no meaning before 'their' big bangs. But something triggered the expansion, so something exists 'outside' our everything. Oh and AtomicMX, what gives you such confidence in the assertion that there is no multiverse? No other everythings? Just because it sounds crazy and has been degraded of its sciencfic credibility by cheesy sci-fi shows does not mean it does not exist. Proving its existance directly may be impossible, but if the maths is solved by its inclusion or a TOE states there should be one/many other universes we may have to make the call and accept we are not alone, in the universes... A wormhole can be a Einstein-Rosen bridge but it may not always be the case (ie if it doesn't lead to another part of the universe(it could land you in the past for instance...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicMX Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Did I ever say I was a scientist? Please tell me when I said that. I am not attacking you, but is like prove me that Ala does not exist. Or like... proving or disproving the following: God created the world in five days bla bla bla... or The earth was spitted from the sun and it froze and in a organic soap the life began etc etc.. You cant "disprove" the gods one, but you can prove it either.. So... why should we discuss something unceratin? Oh and AtomicMX, what gives you such confidence in the assertion that there is no multiverse? No other everythings? Its not matter of that, i can hear something crazy but if it is correcto it is correct... the thing we should understand is that if we have 2 "universes" those 2 would be one. A little abstraction of that would be (infinite + infinite = infinite) just that uni.... Hold on a second. YOU ALL (mostly) should start studying "Teoria de conjuntos" the one of {x|x = a,b,c,d} etc. That should've been worded differently. Like: "The universe is not everything. Can you prove that it is?" If you'd read the rest of the posts you'd see I obviously do not believe that the universe is everything. .... then what is the rest? you should have definetly got an F in probability in (teoria de conjuntos) with those notions. Do you undestand the difference between everything and infinite? everything can be finite. Do you want me to find the bloody formula the scientist devoloped! I can find you numerous articles about the mathematical formula! I''ve already posted a link to one! wormhole is not blackhole. about the "article" or book or whaterever: Of course we mustn't be too anthropocentric: there could be complex evolution of a type very different from life as we know it I do not disregard the posibility of other life, but why should we be interested in imagination what do they act, think, do, if we do not know is the exist. Its like be praying all nights for our souls salvation... to wish god are we praying.... understand? Several theorists have speculated on different lines. There's the concept of 'eternal inflation' due to Linde and others, in which big bangs recur repeatedly in an ever-expanding substratum. Some theorists have conjectured that new 'big bangs' could sprout inside black holes. And there is the idea that there could be a 4th spatial dimension I can speculate that god is black skin an what.... what do they see and who those "theorist" are based in which math to speculate that. see: There could be universes governed... To imagine that we could ever visit, or even observe, a 'duplicate world' would indeed be in the realm of science fiction.... (how convinsing.... what he cant think is science fiction but the lees probable thing is possible... hmmmmm) ..... that text in resumen in my most honest opinion is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 One can also talk about 'other' universes in the sense of cyclical universes. Sure, for each sequential universe, time has no meaning before[/i'] 'their' big bangs. But something triggered the expansion, so something exists 'outside' our everything. so you are saying a brane is a universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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