the guy Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 in the 007 film 'the world is not enough' a man is killed by exploding money. it is later explained that the money had been dipped in urea, and one of the metal strips in the money had been replaced with magnesium, and the man had a radiotransmitter on him which set it off. i am a bit sceptical and would like to know if this would work... firstly, wouldn't it need to be in a sealed container for it to explode? secondly, would the magnesium strip ingnite from a radio transmitter? and if so wouldn't it ignite from all the other radio signals travelling around MI6's headquarters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 You're a bit sceptical only about that part of the bond movies? How about the Moonraker movie with space multiple shuttle launches from underground secret bases on pacific islands? Or the satellite with mirrors that can burn the earth? Did you ever do the maths for that one? Or the Quantum of Solace eco-hotel with hydrogen storage in every single hotel room? How did that make sense? Ok, sorry, I am only joking. You're right to be skeptical. Urea and cellulose (base material for paper) don't react to form an explosive... although googling for [urea cellulose reaction] does give some hints that something happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the guy Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 ok, i see your point, but anyway, are you saying that it would not explode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) In the unlikely event that you manage to attach urea to cellulose, the amount of urea will no be enough to create anything interesting. I'm saying that you won't manage to even react sufficient urea with cellulose to make anything interesting. If you do this in water, upon heating, urea will react with the water and will decompose. It forms CO2 and 2 NH3. Ammonia and cellulose don't form anything explosive. CO2 and cellulose don't form anything explosive either. Edited November 16, 2009 by CaptainPanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 what if they made the bank notes from nitrocelluose? Might be difficault to get them looking right - would ned to be very good forgeries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the guy Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 but is urea itself explosive? because in dynamite the sawdust doesnt react with the explosive, it is just a filler, wouldnt the paper be the same (if urea is explosive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 If urea were explosive then toilet cleaners would be in trouble. It's a totally bogus story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hm, dipping it in nitric acid you might get yourself some nitrocellulose, which is more explosive than gunpowder. Personally, I would use an RFID type chip to set it off. It is doubtful that nitrocellulose could pass as regular cellulose anyhow. Some sort of poison would be more realistic, as smaller quantities can be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 If urea and cellulose would react to form an explosive, then peeing against a tree would be lethal. Trees contain up to 30% cellulose. And pee contains urea. Urea itself can not explode either. Urea needs water to decompose. [ce]Urea + H2O --> CO2 + 2 NH3[/ce] First of all, the decomposition isn't very energetic. Secondly, you turn two molecules into 3 molecules, two of which are soluble in water (and water is present). That means you'll make a liquid, not a gas. That means you make no explosion. It's completely understandable that the movie makers do NOT show how to make an explosive in a blockbuster movie which will be seen by a billion people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 It's completely understandable that the movie makers do NOT show how to make an explosive in a blockbuster movie which will be seen by a billion people. Blasphemy, I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 "It is doubtful that nitrocellulose could pass as regular cellulose anyhow. " What's your second guess? Gun cotton looks a lot like cotton; flash paper looks a lot like paper. I think that when the scriptwriters chose urea they were taking the piss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Does it feel the same too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Does it feel the same too? I have never asked it. To be honest, I wasn't really aware it had feelings. I thought the comment in the HHGTTG about the "small green pieces of paper" not being unhappy was a joke. I think that you could replace a significant part of the cellulose (perhaps the majority) in paper with nitrocellulose and treat it so that it feels close enough to the same as paper that nobody would spot the difference unless they happened to spend a lot of time feeling banknotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I have a feeling you can see the difference between nitrocellulose and cellulose. First of all, the NO2 groups add a significant amount of weight (it nearly doubles the molecular weight of a monomer). Also, the production (soaking in acid) will change the structure, and color. No way that you can actually pull this one off without anyone noticing any changes in a banknote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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