Neodymium50 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Have you ever heard of a perpetual motion generator? It is essentially an electric generator that is turned by the force of magnets. I'm pretty sure that it is a working design, because a guy that worked on it has refitted his car with it, and it works pretty well. I think it's pretty neat. So many scientists are working to find cheaper energy solutions, like hydrogen cells and air power, and something this simple but brilliant is staring them in the face. Invest in some nice high grade magnets, like grade 50 neodymium magnets, and you have an almost unlimited supply of energy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Where is the energy supposed to come from? Energy isn't something magical you can just make appear with strong magnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well gosh, why didn't some smart scientist come up with this before? Can you explain why this would be called "perpetual"? Otherwise this thread will have to move over to Speculations. "Pretty sure" and "a guy that worked on it" aren't good citations. Can you provide a link to the guy with the perpetual car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neodymium50 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Perpetual is not the right name for it, I agree. It is a simple concept, It just uses the repelling force of magnets to turn an electric generator. And, I don't remember the guy's name or link, but I did see him run the car, and he had a monitor that showed the voltage and amperage as a demonstration. Before he drove the car, however, he explained it's workings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Yes, but the First Law of Thermodynamics tells us you can't create new energy with the magnets, just change it into electricity via the generator. Then the Second Law tells us you're going to lose a lot of that energy through heat loss to entropy. Friction, wind resistance, all these will stop your magnetic motion generator pretty quickly. I don't know which guy you saw with a car hooked up to diagnostics, but it's all a scam. Believe me, if it could be done with magnets, you'd have science geeks on homemade perpetual Razors scootering all over college campuses everywhere. I saw a guy many moons ago on the Tonight Show (Johnny Carson was host, not Leno), and he had a great sounding machine. It intrigued me because he claimed that setting up his magnets within a gyroscope increased the normal size of its magnetic field, so his claims of getting out more energy than he put in made sense (because he was trying something nobody else had ever tried, according to him). And he was on with Carson, for God's sake! He could never show anyone else how to make one of his generators, and he would never let anyone examine his. He was a big fake, just like all the something-for-nothing scammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 He could never show anyone else how to make one of his generators, and he would never let anyone examine his. He was a big fake, just like all the something-for-nothing scammers. This is a quality all perpetual motion scammers share (along with the, "MIBs will come and get me" garbage). You won't find any that are willing to share their designs, for scientists to replicated, for a supposed 'revolutionary' technology .. Which has been attempted 1000 times over. Take a look at this site: http://www.panaceauniversity.org/ This site has about every overunity idea ever thought of and probably the magnetic motor you're talking about as well ... (like Phi for All said) If just one free energy design really worked, don't you think you'd have heard of it by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 So did the guy tell you by how much he decreased his efficiency and how many miles per gallon he gets now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Externet Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 The original post is perhaps related to this -whatever it is- : There is many tinkerers spending a lot of time building contraptions fed by obsession: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDG Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Have you ever heard of a perpetual motion generator? It is essentially an electric generator that is turned by the force of magnets. I'm pretty sure that it is a working design, because a guy that worked on it has refitted his car with it, and it works pretty well. I think it's pretty neat. So many scientists are working to find cheaper energy solutions, like hydrogen cells and air power, and something this simple but brilliant is staring them in the face. Invest in some nice high grade magnets, like grade 50 neodymium magnets, and you have an almost unlimited supply of energy! So let's imagine how this is supposed to work: presumably you have a rotor surrounded by a symmetrical array of strong magnets, such that a magnet attracts an arm or projection of the rotor and causes it to rotate. You set it up and let go of the rotor, and projection A is attracted to magnet B, and causes the rotor to rotate X degrees. Then what happens? Nothing. Magnet B continues to attract projection A, and any energy that would have been obtained from that first bit of rotation, moving projection A toward magnet B, will be consumed in the effort to turn projection A past magnet B and on toward the next magnet. No matter how fast you spin the rotor, each magnet is going to "take back" just as much energy as it gives: no net force is exerted, and eventually the bearing friction causes the rotor to stop. Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Rasid Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The idea brought up by Neodymium50 is correct. Movement gained, then lost due to switching of repelling to attracting. Continuous motion could only be gotten by alternating the magnet polarity. Tough mechanical problem. Solar panels charging batteries to drive a DC motor could give you the needed rpm to drive a generator. Or a more expensive converter of DC solar to AC house current. With newer panels with parabolic lenses to converge solar energy intensity, cheaper as receiver is now smaller to catch solar rays. I do remember seeing the Tonight show where the PM generator lit up the auditorium. He also metioned giving it a patriot's patent. So what ever happened to this unit that could be put in every home? He also mentioned exposing this nationally fearing harm. I think this idea went out with the Fish Carburator. I would love to get off the grid, the only thing I lack is juice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The Carson guy was from Richmond Vermont. He tried to patent this perpetual motion machine. They said that's against the law. He claimed it wasn't really a perpetual motion machine since it put out more energy than it consumed and so was a generator. Never worked at the patent office. He claimed they were improperly operating the equipment. He has been out of collecting money from investors for a long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kardia Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hi, I'm new here As said, second law of thermodynamics says energy transfer or transport will produce a waste, therefore, the output will always be minor to the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtheflash82 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 my uncle worked on a project similar to this in south africa. basically the wheel was turned with repelling electro-magnets. the problem was that there was no reliable braking system or acceleration system. the speed could not be controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvp45 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I've seen these kinds of machines for decades and often wondered why people might think they would work. It's easy to see why somebody with no technical background might think there's magic in a magnet (Lookit, Ma, the Westie chases the Scottie!), but so many high school graduates believing in such a weird thing? Then, the other day, I picked up a university physics textbook and happened to see a picture of a bar magnet. And there were field lines popping out of the north pole and running to the south pole, and the text even described those lines "emerging" from the north pole and "ending" on the south pole. Well, "Doh!", no wonder folks believe in monopoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLanius Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 They have one of these in the game of Eve online. It quotes, "This device also has the effect of driving physicists mad whenever you say its name." The idea is one akin to the demon box (forgot the name of the scientist that invented that idea) but goes like this; If you had a box that had a metal slider in its middle, and inside that box was a little demon that could move about freely. Given that air inside the box has both hot and cold molecules, what if you could have the demon move all the cold molecules to one side, and all the hot ones to another, then split the box with that slider? You would have free energy, just from the difference of cold and hot! The energy in magnets is a lot like that. Electrons in the magnet are always moving from the North to the South pole. If they were more materialistic, you could set a hypothetical sail right at the cusp of their wave and just sweep up that sweet energy. So is the idea for this device to collect the electrons or to have them push a device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Electrons in the magnet are always moving from the North to the South pole. Ummmm.......NO! Magnetism is not electron flow, that is electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLanius Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Ummmm.......NO! Magnetism is not electron flow, that is electricity. Surely your not stating that the electrons are in a stationary state though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 After a very short time all of the electron gas would have built up in the south pole.... how would that work... Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedFerromagnetic materials have the origins of their magnetisim in uneven energy levels for spin up and spin down electrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Surely your not stating that the electrons are in a stationary state though, right? Actually I am. Magnetism is the result of the electron's alignment, not their movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Actually I am. Magnetism is the result of the electron's alignment, not their movement. It depends on the type of magnetisim being discussed. It is important to note what is being discussed here is magnetism in bar (and similar) magnets which is ferromagnetism, which is NOT a result of motion of electrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It is important to note what is being discussed here is magnetism in bar (and similar) magnets which is ferromagnetism, which is NOT a result of motion of electrons. Actually it is since it's a result of the spin of the individual electrons and the alignment of that spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Actually it is since it's a result of the spin of the individual electrons and the alignment of that spin. It is a result of the energy levels being different for spin up and spin down electrons. Spin is not a physical motion, but an intrinsic property. So actually, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 You can make an electromagnet by running current through a loop of wire. The magnetic field lines will leave from the "north" side of the loop, and return to the "south" side of the loop -- but they don't "start" or "end" anywhere, it's a closed loop with a direction. Like if you drew arrows on a ring you could tell which way the arrows point but not which is the first arrow. The electrons will move along the loop which is (almost) perpendicular to the magnetic field lines. For ferromagnetic magnets, the magnetism is due to alignment of domains that are caused by alignment of the spins of electrons (one electron per atom, I think). This is a weird quantum mechanical thing that looks kind of like regular spin but does not make sense if you try to think of it like regular spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Spin is not a physical motion, but an intrinsic property. In quantum mechanics, magnetism has to do with the electron's spin. An electron in an atom spins around an internal axis as well as circling the nucleus, just as the earth spins on its axis as well as circling the sun. Because the spinning electron has electrical charge, it acts like a tiny magnet. Ultimately the magnetic properties of all materials, down to the tackiest refrigerator magnet, arise from the magnetism of their electrons. Are they also stationary in their orbits about their nuclei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Are they also stationary in their orbits about their nuclei? It depends on the type of magnetisim we're talking about. In ferromagnetisim the overriding factor is the electron spin, not their 'orbital motion'. The spin is intrinsic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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