ennui Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi, I'm trying to get the article 'Electron microscopy of prefibrillar structures and amyloid fibrils' (1999) by Nielsen et al. in the journal 'AMYLOID, PRIONS, AND OTHER PROTEIN AGGREGATES'. My university has recently changed its journal access system, I can't get it. Would anyone be able to attach this article (or similar ones, i.e. reviews of the use/technique of electron microscopy in amyloid fibril analysis) to a reply? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsemmapeel Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) [ATTACH]2038[/ATTACH] I've a slightly different one here, tried to attach it but not sure if I've done it properly, will check:eyebrow: Yes it works, it's called "Paired -sheet structure of an A(1-40) amyloid fibril revealed by electron microscopy" Carsten Sachse*†‡, Marcus Fa¨ ndrich†‡§, and Nikolaus Grigorieff*§¶ *Rosenstiel Basic Medical Sciences Research Center and ¶Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Brandeis University, MS 029, Waltham, MA 02454-9110; hope it helps Edited February 5, 2009 by Sayonara³ Attachment removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ennui Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Thanks!!! Downloaded fine. Good journal article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDNA Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Would anyone be able to attach this article (or similar ones, i.e. reviews of the use/technique of electron microscopy in amyloid fibril analysis) to a reply? I hope you're not asking anyone to violate any copywrite laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ennui Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 I hope you're not asking anyone to violate any copywrite laws. I wouldn't dream of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 mrsemmapeel, could you please remove the attachment from your post? It is unlikely that someone from the journal will notice this, but it really should not be done in an open thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Agreed. PM is best for such exchange if they occur. Perhaps a mod could do it in case mrsemmapeel no longer has the option of doing an edit to her post (I think it goes away for non-staff users after about 6 hours, IINM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsemmapeel Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm really sorry, it won't happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I already deleted the attachment a couple of days ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm really sorry, it won't happen again No worries at all. Your intention was to help someone, and better, to help them learn. That is not only admirable, but far too lacking in our world. Further, it bothers me deeply that scientific journal articles are not available for free online for anyone who wishes to see them and doesn't have access to the library at a local university. I think the need to pay for information is outdated, and places the ability to find truth arbitrarily into the hands of those who have expendible income. While the business man in me understands the need to recoup cost in order to survive, the more liberal enlightened side of me sees information (especially of the scientific variety) as the one true fertilizer which makes us all grow, advance, and progress as a culture. In short, the law sucks, and you were trying to do the right thing, so stop worrying and enjoy your life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsemmapeel Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 In short, the law sucks, and you were trying to do the right thing, so stop worrying and enjoy your life. Thanks that made me feel better:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Further, it bothers me deeply that scientific journal articles are not available for free online for anyone who wishes to see them and doesn't have access to the library at a local university. I think the need to pay for information is outdated, and places the ability to find truth arbitrarily into the hands of those who have expendible income. While the business man in me understands the need to recoup cost in order to survive, the more liberal enlightened side of me sees information (especially of the scientific variety) as the one true fertilizer which makes us all grow, advance, and progress as a culture. Essentially you are paying for the peer review. As I understand it, some of these journals not only do not pay the scientist but in fact charge them to be published and us to read what is published. In short, the law sucks, and you were trying to do the right thing, so stop worrying and enjoy your life. Long live Wikipedia, arXiv, and Open Source Software. And bittorrent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Essentially you are paying for the peer review. As I understand it, some of these journals not only do not pay the scientist but in fact charge them to be published and us to read what is published. Actually you are not as the peer reviewers do not get paid either. The only things that take money are the editorial staff, editing, and publishing itself. Regardless whether it is open access or not, the author has to pay for the publication (the highest cost I had was around 5000$). But in any case, it is unfortunately in their power to restrict dissemination (which is especially frustrating for the author). It is good that many open source journals (which sometimes are pretty expensive to publish in, though) are rising in their impact. Edited February 9, 2009 by CharonY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The added value of the publishing company has been reduced as much as the added value of record labels. Previously both offered a physical product, one that you can touch (in one case, records and CD's, the other massive volumes of information in small letters). Especially the scientific journals are now practically 100% digital. A company such as Elsevier (the company behind Science Direct and other things) now only operate a search engine and a download server. They also make articles look good, I assume (removing too many empty lines, and reducing the font size to 8 or 10, so that it becomes just a bit harder to read)... In short, I do not see why they need to be paid as much as they are. It is true that the average article is downloaded perhaps 10-100 times, no more, but I also assume that no more than 1 hr is spent on it from the publishers' side... i.e. easy money. The part that annoys me the most is that you do not know the quality of the product before you buy it. (And after typing all this, I re-read the opening post, and I realize that I am quite off topic. It's nice to ramble though... time for coffee!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDNA Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 There are some good points in this thread. Not agreeing with the price DOES justify stealing it. Hey, that Harley is too expensive. DrDNA rides away with it................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Guess this thread is going down towards copyright discussions. But I'd like a coffee, too. But as we are already OT: some journals actually have the authors sign over the copyrights to them. A couple of years back it was quite customary only to be allowed to send reprints of your own paper (which kind of now belongs to the journal) that you (as author) have bought beforehand. Good thing that this has changed for most journals (at least those that I have published in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ennui Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 Woah, didn't realise this would be so controversial! For some reason my university doesn't keep the old journals online. Even ones like Nature. I needed an article from the 1960s and I had to physically go through the library archives. It was like the Flintstones. On my journal articles I've never had to sign copyrights on anything and they've always been available to anyone. I think that's the best way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDNA Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Woah, didn't realise this would be so controversial! For some reason my university doesn't keep the old journals online. Even ones like Nature. I needed an article from the 1960s and I had to physically go through the library archives. It was like the Flintstones. On my journal articles I've never had to sign copyrights on anything and they've always been available to anyone. I think that's the best way. Interesting. To the best of recollection, I've had to sign away copyrights on EVERYTHING....even 'abstracts' for talks at conferences ....which are generally printed in 'proceedings'. Edited February 16, 2009 by DrDNA Consecutive posts merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Regardless whether it is open access or not, the author has to pay for the publication (the highest cost I had was around 5000$). Really? Both of the journals I've published in haven't charged me a dime (though they would have for color figures). Mokele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 For some reason my university doesn't keep the old journals online. Well, technically the libraries are not allowed to keep electronic copies, but they will have to maintain subscriptions for the particular years to allow access. Some (many?) journals even cancel all access once your subscription runs out, even for the years that you actually had subscriptions. Really? Both of the journals I've published in haven't charged me a dime (though they would have for color figures). Mokele Yupp. The most expensive one had two color figures, though. Without those I would still have been above 2k. Some of the publications of my wife were even more expensive (because they were longer). Common rates are often between 60-250 $ per page for print journals. BMC for instance, is free, if your institute is member (of if you are), otherwise it is still around 1k$. h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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