pinballdoctor Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hello everyone, I have a very important question for a medical lab technician concerning a Gram Stain test that was done on a penile discharge swab recently. It is my understanding that gram stain is designed specifically to determine the presence of bacteria, and to determine if it is positive or negative. My question is, would this gram stain test determine if there were any sperm present as well? The reason I ask is because I am quite sure that I was leaking a seminal fluid, even though the lab report shows gram positive cocci in clusters and chains, and under "organisms isolated", Enterococcus faecalis is listed. Is this possible? Thanks in advance for any help with this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 won't a gram stain just show gram-positive bacteria? You're missing a whole host of double membrane gram negative bacteria in such a test. sorry didn't answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 First of all, the Gram stain is targeted at the peptidoclycan of bacterial cell wall. As sperm cells do not have a cell wall, they should not be specifically stained.I am not too sure what you think the problem is. Do you mean that they only isolated E. faecalis despite the fact that a Gram positive stain was shown? Ecoli, it is customary to make a counterstain after the decolorization step (wow I still remember that from my undergrad days). If it is also made here one should again see the Gram negative bacteria (pinkish vs the dark blue/purple of Gram positive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinballdoctor Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 First of all, the Gram stain is targeted at the peptidoclycan of bacterial cell wall. As sperm cells do not have a cell wall, they should not be specifically stained.I am not too sure what you think the problem is. Do you mean that they only isolated E. faecalis despite the fact that a Gram positive stain was shown? Thank you for your reply. The problem, as I see it, is that the "fluid" is automatically assumed to be caused by a bacterial infection, when in fact it could be nothing more than seminal fluid. I was under the impression that when a sample is sent to the lab, it would show the total contents in the sample, rather than just look for the presence of bacteria. I understand about peptidoclycan, but don't understand your comment concerning sperm not having a cell wall. Without a cell wall, what would keep it "together"? Thanks again for your time. (and wisdom) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Sperm cells have a cell membrane . Just shortly, all cells have a cell membrane. However certain cells have an additional structure termed cell wall. In general bacteria, archaea, plants and fungi possess one, however they are structurally very different. They just got the same name because they provide additional stabilization (or because we ran out of names). In any case, animal cells do not possess one. I was under the impression that when a sample is sent to the lab, it would show the total contents in the sample, rather than just look for the presence of bacteria. Actually it is dependent on what diagnostics is assumed to be done with the sample in question. There are some standard screens, but no lab would try to identify everything that is possible within a given sample. In any case, even if there was seminal fluid, the presence of the bacteria shows that they are there. It is not possible to confuse bacteria with eukaryotic cells (if that was your question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge1907 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Sperm stain with the Gram stain http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=UIN2006076001057 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I work in a lab - never stained any seminal fluid though do I don't know if they stain up with a gram stain. If you send a sample to a microbiology lab they are going to look for microbes! The only time sperm are looked for specifically is when doing sperm counts for people with possible infertility problems. Has anyone actually discussed these results with you? Do you have any symptoms that would indicate an infection? It is also possible that there may be residual sperm cells in a penile swab sample or urine sample but that doesn't make the sample seminal fluid if you see what I mean? I have seen sperms in a urine sample but this was not via a gram stain but by direct microscopy of the urine - so it is possible to see them but as I say unless specifically asked to the lab staff aren't going to/wouldn't report it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinballdoctor Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 CALLIE Thankyou for your reply. You say you've never stained any seminal fluid, but how would you know what was on the swab? I have had absolutely NO symptoms that would indicate an infection. No fever, no pain, no burning, no problems of any kind. You work in a lab, so perhaps you could answer this question for me: After the lab report is filed, is the sample or the grams stain saved, or is it discarded? Thanks for your time. (and wisdom) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 You say you've never stained any seminal fluid, but how would you know what was on the swab? because the lab staff must trust that who ever took the swab took it for the right reasons (eg symptoms of infection) and took it correctly. I have had absolutely NO symptoms that would indicate an infection. No fever, no pain, no burning, no problems of any kind. So, if you don't mind me asking why was the swab done?! I'm not sure that Enterococcus is particularly significant from that area but you would have to discuss this with who ever gave you the result. You work in a lab, so perhaps you could answer this question for me: After the lab report is filed, is the sample or the grams stain saved, or is it discarded? Thanks for your time. (and wisdom) This very much depends on the lab and what their procedures are for such things. The lab I work in stores samples for 1-2 weeks depending on the type of sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cat Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi I work in med labs all over the place and a grams stain will defo show up sperm present in a sample. They will look very dark gram pos almost like a yeast. but you say gram result was gram pos cocci in chains and clusters and grew e faecalis. the grams stain matches the culture, and as you have been advised earlier you need to discuss the relevance with a medic. any help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yupp, I take it back. Spermatozoa do stain. Though the mechanism appears to be a bit obscure (they can be either positive or negative, depending on chromatin condensation). But as already mentioned, there is no way to confuse them with the bacteria in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhruva Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hello everyone,I have a very important question for a medical lab technician concerning a Gram Stain test that was done on a penile discharge swab recently. It is my understanding that gram stain is designed specifically to determine the presence of bacteria, and to determine if it is positive or negative. My question is, would this gram stain test determine if there were any sperm present as well? The reason I ask is because I am quite sure that I was leaking a seminal fluid, even though the lab report shows gram positive cocci in clusters and chains, and under "organisms isolated", Enterococcus faecalis is listed. Is this possible? Thanks in advance for any help with this matter. I think u should reapeat the test in a standard lab 9 causes of Penis discharge 1. Balanitis 2. Chlamydia 3. Gonorrhea 4. Granuloma inguinale 5. Non-Specific Urethritis 6. Phimosis 7. Sexually Transmitted Diseases 8. Trichomoniasis 9. Urethritis Follow the link http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/penis_discharge.htm Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedCALLIE Thankyou for your reply. You say you've never stained any seminal fluid, but how would you know what was on the swab? I have had absolutely NO symptoms that would indicate an infection. No fever, no pain, no burning, no problems of any kind. You work in a lab, so perhaps you could answer this question for me: After the lab report is filed, is the sample or the grams stain saved, or is it discarded? Thanks for your time. (and wisdom) Microbe s can can identified by culuring & by biochemical tests Each organism have special character I m doing project in enterococci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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