ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Am I the only one who thinks this commercial makes fun of homophobia rather than homosexuals? We can't even make fun of people who make fun of homosexuals? This kind of thing makes me want to start telling more gay jokes... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250575,00.html I don't know if this will work, but here's the link to the You Tube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9HK6SwCMBw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutZ Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Bah! if a group for gay rights would of done it everything would be "all good". The intentions are very clear, very light humour. Some people like complaining for the sake of complaining, that takes way attention from people who need it, quite frankly the reaction is far more disturbing than that video could ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 We can't even make fun of people who make fun of homosexuals? no. it's homophobaphobic. stop oppressing them. I'm with you, I really don't see the problem, tbh... i bet i can guess most people responce on hearing that a gay rights group opposed it tho: 'effing fags'. honestly, i swear these 'bladeblah rights' groups do more harm than good when they get carried away like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 My first thought: "They paid for a Superbowl spot and that's the best they could do with it? Someone's getting fired." Beyond that, my reactions are mixed. On one hand, it's a huge step that two guys kissing can actually be shown on broadcast TV, and frankly I'm surprised that the American Taliban hasn't been screaming bloody murder over it. However, I am not even remotely happy about the ending and the "do something manly", as if kissing another guy somehow diminishes your masculinity. True, it shows the idiotic crap that insecure men will do when forced to question their sexuality, but at the same time, it feeds into the stereotype that there's something 'unmasculine' about being gay. Now, showing the football players jeering is a step beyond, basically saying that it's OK to be a hate-filled bigot because your idol Mr. Overpaid Linebacker #42 is. However, I wasn't able to find that footage on the snickers site as Fox claims, so either Fox screwed up, or they realized it was a bad move. Overall, it was tasteless, but not on the level of the sort of hateful bile that we see on TV during modern political discourse or whenever Pat Robertson opens his mouth. Mokele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 My view of homosexuality changed after reading a certain book. Now, I don't even know what the word means. Anyway, I like the add. I agree, there is nothing bad about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 rofl, that was pretty funny. don't see what the fuss is about, its not as if its going 'zomg, gays be evil' or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 However, I am not even remotely happy about the ending and the "do something manly", as if kissing another guy somehow diminishes your masculinity. True, it shows the idiotic crap that insecure men will do when forced to question their sexuality, but at the same time, it feeds into the stereotype that there's something 'unmasculine' about being gay. Sounds like you and the american taliban have something in common...you're overly sensitive to bullshit. This is a joke. It's funny. Gay people tell jokes about straight people and straight people tell jokes about gay people. Welcome to the world. Get over yourself... Homosexuals need to realize that just because their gay, doesn't make them special. Like all people in the world, their going to be made fun of. Boohoo...we all get made fun of. Tell more gay jokes everybody. Make fun of them. They want to be equal? They most certainly deserve to be equal. They deserve to be able to get married. They deserve to get jobs based on their abilities, without discrimination. They deserve to be protected by the rights gauranteed by the constitution. And they deserve to be made fun of, just like the rest of us. Edit: Just had to throw this in...something I've noticed about the "oppressed" homosexual population. Society is to blame for what oppression they have suffered. That means our friends, family members, us... (not the american taliban. The american taliban uses this predisposition to get votes and constituency - there was a market, and they grabbed it) But that is an old society. There are still leftover old ****ers from that society, still in power, but they are not an oppressed class of victims like they want to be. They march for gay rights. But we don't care - they have rights and we're cool with it. They demand to be allowed to pursue their homosexuality outside of the closet. But we don't care - they can be gay all they want. Then they throw a stink about a commercial that's hilarious. Just seems to me they want to be noticed. They want to matter. To the gay people of the world: Be gay. Have fun. Marry each other. We don't care. We don't wish any negative, nor positive. We just don't care. We're busy working, making a living, buying stuff, selling stuff, loving, hating, watching TV, playing games...whatever. I don't march down your street demanding the right to mow my lawn however I want...because nobody gives a shit. So quit marching down my street about your rights. You have rights. Now leave me alone. Nothing personal, I just have better things to do. See? No phobia. Just common sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 i bet i can guess most people responce on hearing that a gay rights group opposed it tho: 'effing fags'. honestly, i swear these 'bladeblah rights' groups do more harm than good when they get carried away like this. Homosexuals need to realize that just because their gay, doesn't make them special. Like all people in the world, their going to be made fun of. Boohoo...we all get made fun of. see, this is what i mean. by proporting to represent gays, but whinjing whenever something happens that could, if twisted enough, be viewed as even remotely non-gay-friendly, they effectively represent homosexuals as a bunch of whiney, prissy drama queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 However, I am not even remotely happy about the ending and the "do something manly", as if kissing another guy somehow diminishes your masculinity. True, it shows the idiotic crap that insecure men will do when forced to question their sexuality, but at the same time, it feeds into the stereotype that there's something 'unmasculine' about being gay.When I got past the idiotic crap idea that pulling out a handful of your own chest hair was somehow manly I appreciated the spot more. What really offends me is that a gay rights group like Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation missed the point that two men kissed during a Superbowl commercial! And what offends me most is that Mars didn't have the nuts to leave the commercial running so people could eventually see the subtlety of the spot. Wow, the commercial with two men kissing was the least offensive thing about this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yeah, I was quite surprised they showed them kissing. Not to mention the lead in with each devouring one end of the candy bar...kinda gross really. I was disgusted by that. But I didn't complain to anybody. It's my problem, not anybody elses. Actually, it's not really a problem, I see disgusting things on TV all the time. But the point should still matter. I'm straight and I don't particularly care to see men acting that way. But I also don't see why I should disparage anyone else from enjoying it. Yeah, and it's kind of ironic that Mars doesn't have the nuts to stand up to this...when this is about a candy bar full of nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tree Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 And what offends me most is that Mars didn't have the nuts to leave the commercial running so people could eventually see the subtlety of the spot.Subtlety? Do explain. As far as I could tell it was a joke aboutpeople accidentally kissing. kissing people with Snickers in their mouth being gross, hence the idea of Snickers being best "after the kiss" Was their seriously anything more to it than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 GLAAD is just annoyed that the entire month is already "taken" by another PC special interest. Somebody should point out to them that they should just relax. After all, it's the shortest month of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryctos Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 lady & the tramp meets new age humor? Has the world lost touch with the classics? I bet a large majority of the people who saw that ad, and complained, didn't even make the connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Well, I think Dak nailed it too. I think they're misrepresenting their masses. I'm sure gay folks all over the country probably laughed at that commercial as well. Similar to the feminist movement. The intentions are good, and necessary in the beginning, but now they don't matter too much anymore. When they go extreme like this, they do a disservice to their supposed constituency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Sounds like you and the american taliban have something in common...you're overly sensitive to bullshit. This is a joke. It's funny. Gay people tell jokes about straight people and straight people tell jokes about gay people. Welcome to the world. Get over yourself...Homosexuals need to realize that just because their gay, doesn't make them special. Like all people in the world, their going to be made fun of. Boohoo...we all get made fun of. There's a difference between jokes that make fun of something and jokes that do so in a way that perpetuates damaging stereotypes. How would you react if the joke had two white kids accidentally doing something typically 'black' and then saying 'Quick, act intelligent and hard-working'? Believe me, I'm not humorless about it; my friends and I are constantly joking about cliches of queer culture like the lesbian 3rd-date U-Haul or 'queer standard time' (= 'an hour late'). The american taliban uses this predisposition to get votes and constituency - there was a market, and they grabbed it So Hitler's wasn't a bad man, he was just a good marketer? There are still leftover old ****ers from that society, still in power, but they are not an oppressed class of victims like they want to be. They march for gay rights. But we don't care - they have rights and we're cool with it. They demand to be allowed to pursue their homosexuality outside of the closet. But we don't care - they can be gay all they want. Then they throw a stink about a commercial that's hilarious. Just seems to me they want to be noticed. They want to matter. Um, are you seriously this stupid? In Cincinnati, there used to be an ordinance written into the city charter that expressly allowed discrimination based on sexual orientation in loans, housing, employment, anything. Do you know when this was overturned? the 80's? the 90's? Try 2004. And the margin was only 55% vs 45%. Oh, and since it's just a few old fogies behind the discrimination, I suppose I'm just imagining things when I see news reports that the local American Taliban (here known as "Citizens for Community Values") has started a petition to put this discrimination *back* into the city charter, and has already amassed 30,000 signatures? Yeah, there's nothing to march about. We can marry - oh, wait, we can't. We can still inherit from long time partners- ...oh, wait, no, the family can overturn the will with easy and leave us with nothing. Well, we can still see our loved ones in hospital - oh, wait, nevermind, we can't do that either. Well, we can still fight to defend our country and prove our patriot- wait, we can't do that either? I guess I'll go be a teacher - oh, wait, no dice there either in certain regions. But why am I fussing, since it's not like the US Congress came very close to writing hatred and discrimination towards gays into the very Constitution, did they? Oh, wait, they almost did.... I'd love it if you were right. I really, really would. I'd LOVE for it not to matter, for there to be true equality, for the entire US to not give a shit who I'm sleeping with, for it to be a total non-issue. But that's not the way things are. While I applaud you not caring who I ****, there are many, many people out there who DO care, and who will fight to make sure I am a second-class citizen because of it. I think they're misrepresenting their masses. I'm sure gay folks all over the country probably laughed at that commercial as well. Nobody is saying this is some sort of abusive hate-speech, just slightly in bad taste. It's not like the sandwich is rotten through-and-through, it's mostly OK but the cheese tastes a bit funny and the bread is just on the verge of going stale. Similar to the feminist movement. The intentions are good, and necessary in the beginning, but now they don't matter too much anymore. See above. Yeah, all those tiny basic rights don't matter. Same thing for feminism - all those minor things like having control over your own body are just trivial details. Mokele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 There's a difference between jokes that make fun of something and jokes that do so in a way that perpetuates damaging stereotypes. How would you react if the joke had two white kids accidentally doing something typically 'black' and then saying 'Quick, act intelligent and hard-working'? I guess I'm a rotten person because I would think that's funny. Just like I thought it was funny when Chappelle pretended to be a blind KKK master...who didn't realize he was black...since he was blind...(god that was funny) These kinds of jokes make fun of those who really think that way. Your example needed a little more injection of humor, but the joke is on the idiots that think black folk aren't intelligent or hard-working. Hell, even if it's not, it's still funny. As long as it stays a joke and doesn't turn into jeering and hillbilly bullying. So Hitler's wasn't a bad man, he was just a good marketer? No, he was bad. The american taliban is bad. Moreso, the PEOPLE ARE BAD. That's my point. You want to pretend that the american taliban is your adversary. I'm pointing out that it's the american taliban and your next door neighbor, your uncle, your friends...it's society. They aren't a divine entity that swooped down and brainwashed the country - they echoed the sentiments of the country. But that's not the way things are. While I applaud you not caring who I ****, there are many, many people out there who DO care, and who will fight to make sure I am a second-class citizen because of it. Ok, fair enough. I guess there are some laws that aren't corrected, but I was speaking more from a societal standpoint. I just don't see these homo haters that everyone talks about. Just about everybody I know could care less who screws what. I'm just used to that kind of mentallity. Live and let live. Oh well...march on... See above. Yeah, all those tiny basic rights don't matter. Same thing for feminism - all those minor things like having control over your own body are just trivial details. Actually, I was referring to how the feminazi's try to convice their sisterhood that they don't need men. That's extreme really. That's why the feminist movement has stopped in its tracks. Women said..."hey wait a minute, I do want a man in my life". "Umm...I would like to be asked out on a date at work..." Maybe the feminazi's don't like to see women "clinging" to men, but many women enjoy it. They simply went too far - so they lost touch. I see the same thing happening here with this hyper sensitivity to gay jokes. Little things like having control over your own body was the "good intentions" and "necessary in the beginning" that I wrote...sorry you missed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 There's a difference between jokes that make fun of something and jokes that do so in a way that perpetuates damaging stereotypes. How would you react if the joke had two white kids accidentally doing something typically 'black' and then saying 'Quick, act intelligent and hard-working'? lmao 'inteligent' and 'hard-working', tho, are positive traits. 'manly' is questionable as a trait. I'm pretty sure lots of people would agree that 'hard working' and 'inteligent' are desireable, whereas 'manly' isn't neccesarily desireable. So, painting homosexuality as 'unmanly' is: 1/ not inherently insulting, especially as 'manly' was portrayed in the advert (duh. lets inflict pain on ourselves for no reason to reasert our manliness. duh), and 2/ arguably correct. say what you want about 'manly', bum sex with other men is not part of the definition. in fact, thinking about it, it's more insulting to 'manly' men that to gays. to twist your example, how would you react if the joke had two white kids accidentally doing something typically 'black' and then saying 'Quick, act intelligent and hard-working', and who were unflateringly portrayed as slightly stupid buffoons? would that be insulting to blacks, whites, or white bigots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 My housemate was watching the soap opera "Hollyoaks" earlier. In the last episode, two guys kissed, and one of them "might be a bit gay". In today's episode, everyone (and I mean everyone) was moping about like the world was ending, spontaneously bursting into tears, reinforcing the stereotypical view of sexual divergence being THE WORST THING THAT CAN EVER HAPPEN EVER. I wish the gay lobby groups would try and get crap like that pulled, instead of wasting their time with crappy adverts that are predictable and trite. However, I am not even remotely happy about the ending and the "do something manly", as if kissing another guy somehow diminishes your masculinity. True, it shows the idiotic crap that insecure men will do when forced to question their sexuality, but at the same time, it feeds into the stereotype that there's something 'unmasculine' about being gay. I don't know about the US, but in the UK it doesn't help that half the gay population seems to want to look and act ultra-faggy at the minute. The armies of nasal, whiny, stick-thin, superduper flailingly camp, hair product-covered he-shes this country is producing makes me want to go on a rampage. They are confirming pretty much every negative stereotype going. And I'll bet half of them have never heard of Stonewall. Now, showing the football players jeering is a step beyond, basically saying that it's OK to be a hate-filled bigot because your idol Mr. Overpaid Linebacker #42 is. However, I wasn't able to find that footage on the snickers site as Fox claims, so either Fox screwed up, or they realized it was a bad move. Anyone who has anything whatsoever to do with American football knows that Mr. Overpaid Linebacker #42 likes the cock once in a while, so it's probably all going to be okay Sounds like you and the american taliban have something in common...you're overly sensitive to bullshit. This is a joke. It's funny. Gay people tell jokes about straight people and straight people tell jokes about gay people. Welcome to the world. Get over yourself... The objection is not "oh the straighties made a joke about us, wahhhhh". The objection is that the joke (such as it was) is reinforcing the negative stigma attached to being gay*, and promoting "normal masculinity" as if this were a condition reserved for heterosexuals. Which is offensive. * if you accept that kissing a man is enough to make one gay, which personally I don't - cock and arse is standard fare, not snogging. They march for gay rights. But we don't care - they have rights and we're cool with it... Be gay. Have fun. Marry each other. We don't care. We don't wish any negative, nor positive. We just don't care. Who is this "we"? There is massive opposition to "Gay rights", both in the US and the UK - which are supposed to be advanced civilisations. I don't march down your street demanding the right to mow my lawn however I want...because nobody gives a shit. So quit marching down my street about your rights. You have rights. Firstly, people don't tend to march for rights they aready have, so no case to answer there. Secondly, if you were deprived rights that you take to be natural and god-given (like the right to have the person you love there with you in hospital, or the right to not be brutally murdered because you like poking vagina), you'd be marching too. Try empathy instead of "we don't care" - the wheel always comes around to everybody's group eventually. I was disgusted by that. But I didn't complain to anybody. It's my problem, not anybody elses. For this to set you aside from the GLAAD, surely they would have to complain every time a man and woman kissed on television? Either that, or you (despite your better judgment) constantly hold yourself back from making complaints that heterosexuals are being negatively portrayed by the gay media during super-camp sporting events. As you can see, I am not sure what your point is there. Help me. Has the world lost touch with the classics? I bet a large majority of the people who saw that ad, and complained, didn't even make the connection. Beyond the basic mechanics of the scene, it's hardly a meaningful reference. What's your point? In Cincinnati, there used to be an ordinance written into the city charter that expressly allowed discrimination based on sexual orientation in loans, housing, employment, anything. Do you know when this was overturned? the 80's? the 90's? Try 2004. And the margin was only 55% vs 45%. The opposite is in effect here - new act about to come in forbidding discrimination from any service. All the Catholic adoption agencies have said they will have to close (how melodramatic - they could just ask gay couples to respect their religious beliefs and not attempt to adopt from them). I'd love it if you were right. I really, really would. I'd LOVE for it not to matter, for there to be true equality, for the entire US to not give a shit who I'm sleeping with, for it to be a total non-issue. Ah, but ParanoiA is not saying it is a non-issue. He is saying he "doesn't care" (and by extension nobody else does either, apparently). Clearly he does care, or the sight of men not-even-properly-kissing with a snickers bar in the way would not appall him so, and he would have just ignored this thread instead of ranting in it. These kinds of jokes make fun of those who really think that way. Your example needed a little more injection of humor, but the joke is on the idiots that think black folk aren't intelligent or hard-working. Hell, even if it's not, it's still funny. As long as it stays a joke and doesn't turn into jeering and hillbilly bullying. Your example of Chappelle's skit is not an example of discrimination. But I generally agree with the rest of this bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 ParanoiA, I see you already addressed much of the meat of my comments to you in your reply to Mokele while I was typing my post. All we need now is for a nutball conspiracy-theorist gay rights campaigner to pick up on Saryctos's post and tell us how it's an oblique reference to Walt Disney being a raging bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryctos Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Beyond the basic mechanics of the scene, it's hardly a meaningful reference. What's your point? My point is that the commercial was a quickly thrown together bit based on a simple premis* with the intention of knee jerk reactions. You know, room full of guys watchin' the game, guys kissing"eeeeew", hair ripping"ouch", ("I've done similar to the tune of 'being manly'")*chuckle*. I mean, it's the same people who brought you the "Happy Peanut Song*".I highly doubt it was designed to be an earth shattering controversial ad(obviously it was intended to poke into that realm just a bit, as most Super Bowl commercials do). And that was the purpose of the comment, to show that I feel the ad as more based off an old disney movie and their advertising demographic(families(disney) & guys(manly) infront of the TV, rather than a socio-political statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Well yes, it is clearly based off the spaghetti gag from Lady and the Tramp. But the fact remains, even if it was not intentional, it does send a very negative message which the producers should have spotted before it aired, and they would have had numerous opportunities to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Keep in mind though, when I say I don't care, I don't mean that I don't care if you have rights or not. I'm one of the few people that actually believe in real freedom. Not "cherry picking" freedom, like we have in the US and UK. I just mean that, from my perspective, they're preaching to the choir. And because they keep shouting at me, it's annoying. I guess things aren't as equal as I'd like to believe. But, so far, correct me if I'm wrong, the only rights they're being denied seem to do with marriage and issues subtending that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Keep in mind though, when I say I don't care, I don't mean that I don't care if you have rights or not. I'm one of the few people that actually believe in real freedom. Not "cherry picking" freedom, like we have in the US and UK. No I get it, it's just you could be shouting "I agree but I think you are losing sight of your aims!" instead. Although I will admit that it does make one really quite tired after a while. I guess things aren't as equal as I'd like to believe. But, so far, correct me if I'm wrong, the only rights they're being denied seem to do with marriage and issues subtending that. Not so much. If you are a man and your girlfriend has been hit by a bus you will find it much easier to get in and see her than if your boyfriend has been hit by a bus. Sad to say but it looks like this particular one comes from old-fashioned prejudice rather than any legal or marital basis. There are many companies who inexplicably refuse service to gay couples, married or otherwise. In the UK, QuickFit is an infamous example - they openly state that this is "company policy", although the details of that policy are not usually discussed. I don't really see this particular example as that much of a problem myself (aside from the effrontery, of course), but I don't see how society benefits by making gay people shop around more for bargain deals on their motoring needs. Then there's the wills and inheritance issue. This one seems to be independent of marital status. And god forbid you should wish to adopt a child, or even have one yourself (lesbian couple + donor father = stoned in the streets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Well yes, it is clearly based off the spaghetti gag from Lady and the Tramp. But the fact remains, even if it was not intentional, it does send a very negative message which the producers should have spotted before it aired, and they would have had numerous opportunities to do so. I does NOT send a negative message unless you consider not being manly a negative thing. If you do, then you're the bigot. Not us. I think the producers did spot it and they didn't care. Because perhaps they have a sense of humor, like Saryctos and don't take themselves so damn seriously like so many do. Poking fun at others is always going to offend someone - that's part of it and you can't remove it. You can get as logical as you want, cloud it up with silly ideas of what is actually offensive and what isn't and someone else will have a different take on it. At the end of the day, if you're the one being made fun of, (like stereotyping your behavior, exaggerating your character features) then you can either take it and laugh, or you can let it offend you and cry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryctos Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Well yes, it is clearly based off the spaghetti gag from Lady and the Tramp. But the fact remains, even if it was not intentional, it does send a very negative message which the producers should have spotted before it aired, and they would have had numerous opportunities to do so. I really didn't see a negative message at all, when I watched that commercial the first time. I imagine the only people who did, are the people who watch for something negative to jump on. I'd imagine a possible thought going through the producer's mind was that the gay audience would look at it and say "wow, straight men(or homophobes if you prefer to demonize someone who doesn't fancy the gays) are crazy"*chuckle*. Negative? yes, but in a different more light hearted way. Light hearted humor may be in it's dying days in America. And not just from, no gay jokes, but all over. I just mention it because this is just another (#) on the stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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