Rush Limbaugh Accuses Michael J. Fox of Faking Parkinsons Symptoms

[Mokele]

I'm officially confused though, because isn't a blastocyst a human being?

 

No, it's a hollow ball of undifferentiated cells, period. The sequences goes egg+sperm -> zygote -> morula -> blastula -> gastrula -> neurula -> rest of development. The zygote divides into a bunch of cells, the morula, which hollows out to become the blastula, which then develops an invagination (which will become the gut, with some outgrowth cells becoming muscle, connective tissue, etc) to become the gastrula, then a fold forms on one side of the outside to make what will become the nervous tissue in the neurula stage.

 

To apply "personhood" to something that doesn't even have the cellular precursors to proto-nerve cells yet is utterly ridiculous.

 

Mokele

[ParanoiA]

No, it's a hollow ball of undifferentiated cells, period. The sequences goes egg+sperm -> zygote -> morula -> blastula -> gastrula -> neurula -> rest of development. The zygote divides into a bunch of cells, the morula, which hollows out to become the blastula, which then develops an invagination (which will become the gut, with some outgrowth cells becoming muscle, connective tissue, etc) to become the gastrula, then a fold forms on one side of the outside to make what will become the nervous tissue in the neurula stage.

 

To apply "personhood" to something that doesn't even have the cellular precursors to proto-nerve cells yet is utterly ridiculous.

 

Mokele

 

Thanks. Excellent answer. Personally, I don't have a problem with all of this stuff. They can even clone a human to full term for all I care. But I'm curious how the language can be interpreted legally.

 

Since you have fertilization before blastula, I can see how it could be considered a human - therefore contradicting the first line of the amendment that clearly states no person shall clone a human being.

[Haezed]

The only issue here is that the American Taliban are feeling guilty... (blah blah blah)

 

One thing we learned in the war on terror is that it is important to define the enemy. I'm wondering who you consider to be the members of the American Taliban?

[Mokele]

Those who seek to impose their moral rules on everyone else through laws, rather than simply letting people live according to their individual beleifs (you know, that pesky thing called "freedom"). This essentially means the Christian Right, though the same can be said for other organizations such as PETA.

 

Mokele

[bascule]

The only issue here is that the American Taliban are feeling guilty because the ad actually shows the suffering they are allowing to continue.

 

QFT

 

What does Rush expect, for MJS to only do ads showing his Parkinsons symptoms when he's degenerated to the point that our best medications can no longer suppress the effects?

 

So... in other words... he should only show his symptoms by the time it's too late to help him.

 

Uh huh.

 

The government is funding faith-based initiatives which provide abstinance education (whose deleterious effects are extensively documented) but they won't fund stem cell research.

 

Stem cell research is helpful.

Absinence education is harmful.

 

Here's an idea: let's take all the money going towards abstinence education and use it to fund stem cell research.

[Rhino]

I can't make this statement jibe with the article linked in the original post. Limbaugh accused him of acting, and that's not the case. From your quote, Fox took the medication, in part, to keep others from seeing him display symptoms, but realized that that wasn't necessary.

 

Maybe it would have "jibed" if you would have actually read the article. Here is a direct quote from the article.

 

"This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting." - Rush Limbaugh said that!

 

The quote I used in my previous post showed that MJF was well aware that he could use the mannerisms that appeared without his medication to get attention.

[ParanoiA]

QFT

 

What does Rush expect, for MJS to only do ads showing his Parkinsons symptoms when he's degenerated to the point that our best medications can no longer suppress the effects?

 

So... in other words... he should only show his symptoms by the time it's too late to help him.

 

 

No, like I said in an earlier post, I heard exactly what he said on the radio. It was nothing. He clearly stated that he understood and expected MJF to ditch the meds for awareness ads, speeches and etc - that it was important to show the effects of the disease in that capacity.

 

His problem, and mine, is using it to spread disinformation. Albeit not as bad as I originally thought, but still disingenuous. It's disturbing to see him do the bidding of a trashy liberal politician.

 

The stem cell amendment is a voter issue. It doesn't matter who gets elected to the senate, it's a ballot initiative.

 

I'm not even sure why he's doing the ads. Jim Talent has stated he has no intention of seeking to criminalize or change the current legal status of this research. And he's an incumbent, so he's already had an opportunity to do that and has not.

[Haezed]

Those who seek to impose their moral rules on everyone else through laws, rather than simply letting people live according to their individual beleifs (you know, that pesky thing called "freedom").

 

I hate those guys too!

 

This essentially means the Christian Right, though the same can be said for other organizations such as PETA.

 

And you define the "Christian Right" as... what?

[Pangloss]

The only issue here is that the American Taliban are feeling guilty because the ad actually shows the suffering they are allowing to continue.

 

Wow that was rich. Nicely put guy.

[Mokele]

And you define the "Christian Right" as... what?

 

Those seeking to do as above (force their views on everyone) explicitly in the name of their religion (often while abusing their own religion's teaching to do it).

 

Wow that was rich. Nicely put guy.

 

Thanks!

 

Mokele

[ecoli]

does anyone make such accusations about the starving impoverished people in third world countries (I hate that term)?

The term actually dates back to the cold war. The 1st world was US and it's democratic allies. The 2nd world was USSR and it's communist allies. The 3rd world was everyone else.

[bascule]

His problem, and mine, is using it to spread disinformation.

 

Okay, let's play that game.

 

Problem: the spread of disinformation.

 

So why are we going after Michael J. Fox again?

 

How about going after the Bush administration? I mean, recently Bush declared that he and his administration have "never been 'stay the course'" when, uhh...

 

 

Oh wait, Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite who spent his whole career criticizing the war on drugs only to become an oxycotin addict.

 

He'd rather victimize someone drumming up money for his debilitating nerve disease in the face of religious assholes who care more about unborn babies than they do about the suffering of real people.

[bascule]

Quoth Rush:

 

http://mediamatters.org/static/audio/limbaugh-20061023-fox.mp3

 

"[Michael J. Fox was] is exaggerating the effects of this disease. He was moving all around and shaking [...] and it's purely an act. This is the only time I have ever seen Michael J. Fox portray any of the symptoms of the disease he has [...] this is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting, one of the two."

 

SHAMELESS?

 

F*ck Rush

 

He clearly stated that he understood and expected MJF to ditch the meds for awareness ads, speeches and etc - that it was important to show the effects of the disease in that capacity.

 

Quote? That's the diametrical opposite of what he originally said.

 

Wow, I really need to stop responding to spin in these forums.

 

If you're going to accuse Michael J. Fox of spreading information, PROVIDE A DIRECT QUOTE, then provide reference materials for how this is a distortion.

 

I got suckered in again.

 

Michael J. Fox didn't spread disinformation.

 

Rush is a f*cking asshole.

[Haezed]

Those seeking to do as above (force their views on everyone) explicitly in the name of their religion (often while abusing their own religion's teaching to do it).

 

Oh, those guys. Yes, I'm against them.

 

The term Christian Right seems to include any Christians right of center.

[swansont]

Maybe it would have "jibed" if you would have actually read the article. Here is a direct quote from the article.

 

"This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting." - Rush Limbaugh said that!

 

The quote I used in my previous post showed that MJF was well aware that he could use the mannerisms that appeared without his medication to get attention.

 

I did read the article. The whole quote includes ""He is exaggerating the effects of the disease," Limbaugh told listeners. "He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act. . . . This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox."

[ParanoiA]

 

Quote? That's the diametrical opposite of what he originally said.

 

Wow, I really need to stop responding to spin in these forums.

 

If you're going to accuse Michael J. Fox of spreading information, PROVIDE A DIRECT QUOTE, then provide reference materials for how this is a distortion.

 

I got suckered in again.

 

Michael J. Fox didn't spread disinformation.

 

Rush is a f*cking asshole.

 

Bascule you're letting your republican hatred get the best of you.

 

Quote? I have no quote. I was listening to the program when he said all of this stuff, and I didn't hear anything quote worthy. He's on the radio for 3 hours a day. You think your little quote (probably snagged from CNN, the american terrorist support network) is the only thing he said in an entire 3 hour show? C'mon, don't be so naive.

 

He said everything you quoted. He ALSO said, that he understands and agrees with the benefit of not using his meds to show the effects of the disease in certain situtations, but that this shameless ad is NOT one of them.

 

There's nothing diametrically opposite about that point. It would be just as shameful if they got a starving Ethiopian child standing knee deep in a mud hole pleading to elect Clair McCaskill because she "cares about the poor".

 

And don't align me with spin. You're coming into this as an outsider. You weren't listening to the program when Rush said this overblown crap and you apparently don't live in Missouri where these MJF ads run over and over again, and you haven't been inundated with "spin" from all sides of the stem cell ballot initiative for weeks on end. Those of us who live here are well versed in this tug of war and we see this stuff in context, as opposed to Youtube soundbites.

 

Rush is a hypocrite. And so are you. And so am I. What else is news? This has long been a pet peeve of mine. If a fat guy says don't eat too many donuts because they might make you fat - do you call him a hypocrite or someone who's been there and knows? He's both.

 

I don't agree with about half of what Rush says and his own ideology contradicts itself on many levels. But I also understand that virtually every ideology contradicts itself to some extent. You'd be a fool to write his intellect off. There's a reason why his ratings make him number one, and why he's a target for the liberal elite.

 

I will post the disinformation proof when I get more time. I've got 2 mins to jump in the shower and an hour drive to work to get through first.

[Sisyphus]

Ok. American terrorist support network? Liberal elite conspiracy? "Intellect?!" I think it's time you cut back on listening to the fat, hypocritical asshole in question.

[ParanoiA]

"All stem cell research is legal today in Missouri," Limbaugh countered. "Jim Talent does not seek to criminalize it, as Michael J. Fox asserts in his television commercial. The truth is, Amendment 2 would put human cloning in the Missouri Constitution. Michael J. Fox is participating in this disinformation campaign"

 

He's exactly right. But like I said earlier, it's all semantics. This is why both sides of this thing pisses me off. Republicans want to act like cloning blastocysts via somatic nuclear cell transfer is equivalent to cloning a human being - it's not. And the democrats want to pretend there's no cloning going on at all. They should be up front about it. Most people actually support abortion. If they're going to support abortion, I would think they would support cloning, stem cell harvesting and killing the farmed embroyo. I know that's really apples and oranges, but I think it's in the same vein however.

 

There's a damn good reason for the minimal cloning going on. So, why doesn't the Yes Vote crowd address that rather than repeating themselves over and over again?

 

I want this stem cell initiative to pass. I'm all for it. But I don't think being disingenuous about the facts is the way to go about it.

 

 

Ok. American terrorist support network? Liberal elite conspiracy? "Intellect?!" I think it's time you cut back on listening to the fat, hypocritical asshole in question.

 

Because I couldn't possibly think of these things on my own now could I? CNN hasn't done anything to deserve being aligned with terrorism now have they? And where in the hell did I use the word "conspiracy"? You're as bad as Bascule with your hate blinding your wisdom.

 

You're making the same mistake everybody makes who doesn't listen to Rush. They think we're all brainwashed drones that don't think for ourselves. They also think that a dittohead is someone who agrees with everything he says. We laugh when you do that.

 

I listen to conservative radio talk show hosts because that's the only place in the media I can get the meat and potatoes of ideological beliefs. I've tried the liberal versions...Yawn...they don't have any substance, they're slow, too much air. I can listen for hours and if I'm still awake I still have no idea why they believe what they believe. But, I can listen to Rush for 15 minutes and learn why he believes something - something that either pisses me off or gives me relief. It's busy, it's moving, it doesn't put me to sleep.

 

It would be in your best interest to respect your adversary and use it to your advantage. Rush is responsible for my interest in politics as well as my descent from conservative ideology. Without Rush and other conservative talk show hosts, I would never know how or why they believe what they believe in order to know I don't agree with it.

 

Whether you like it or not, Rush is a very smart man. I listen to his show about a half hour during lunch most days of the week and I listen for callers that believe what I believe and then listen to Rush counter them. Through various callers I get to vicariously argue with Rush, and thereby test what I believe. Isn't that what most of us are doing in this forum? He's a worthy opponent, if nothing else, so if my ideas can survive Rush's criticism, then I feel confident in what I believe.

 

I'm more like southpark's creator Trey Parker - I can't stand conservatives, but I f*cking hate liberals. I mean that more figuratively, I don't literally hate them as people - rather their silly ideas and smug elitist attitudes.

 

And I believed that before I ever heard of Rush Limbaugh.

[Sisyphus]

Yes, I listen to him occasionally, too. Or I used to, since it told me, at least, what the conservative echo chamber is telling itself, and hence where all that stuff comes from. So in a sense, yes, it has "substance." But it's not a rational exploration of ideas, it's unambiguously propaganda. Liberals are stupid, smug, lying elitist sissies who hate America, and conservatives are tough, down to Earth, wise, noble patriots. In essence, that's all he ever really says, and he can say it however he likes, facts or consistency be damned. (The more outrageous and ridiculous he is, the more people will listen, out of satisfaction or outrage.) This is the message conservatives have been trying to instill in the public consciousness since the 80s, and it's finally working. Rush is just a manifestation of it. And you're using all the phrases they want you to. ("Liberal elite?" What does that even mean, exactly? Are they all sitting in a room somewhere? The very phrase implies conspiracy, does it not?) He screens calls for only the dumbest sounding liberals that reinforce the same stereotypes he's trying to spread, so he can make them all look stupid. Whenever they say something not stupid, they get cut off and aren't given a chance to respond to his rebuttal.

 

BTW, full disclosure: I can't stand liberals, but I f*cking hate conservatives.

[Rhino]

I did read the article. The whole quote includes ""He is exaggerating the effects of the disease," Limbaugh told listeners. "He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act. . . . This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox."

 

This is a quote from Rush Limbaugh's transcript for October 24th from his web page. Swansont please keep in mind this is Rush Limbaugh actually saying this.

Now, in terms of Michael J. Fox, I did some research today, and I found his book that was published. It's "Lucky Man," 2002, but he admits in the book that before Senate subcommittee on appropriations I think in 1999, September of 1999, he did not take his medication for the purposes of having the ravages and the horrors of Parkinson's disease illustrated, which was what he has done in the commercials that are running for Claire McCaskill and Jim Talent. So when you insert yourself into the political arena this way, to expect insulation and absolution and to expect yourself not to have what you say criticized in the manner in which you're trying to sway opinion is a little bit I think above the fray. I mean, to think that you're immune from any sort of criticism, it's worked in the past for Democrats, but it doesn't work here.

 

Here is another from the same transcript

 

RUSH: All right, people are asking for the cite, that's c-i-t-e. This would be Michael J. Fox, an excerpt from his book "Lucky Man" June 1, 2002. Here is what he writes regarding his appearance before a Senate appropriations subcommittee hearing in Washington on September 28th, 1999: "I had made a deliberate choice to appear before the subcommittee without medication. It seemed to me that this occasion demanded that my testimony about the effects of the disease and the urgency we as a community were feeling be seen as well as heard. For people who had never observed me in this kind of shape, the transformation must have been startling," as it was for me when I saw the commercial he was running in Missouri, because I had never seen him that way before, ever, and I got numerous e-mails from people saying he had said that he does this: goes off the medication to illustrate the ravages of the disease to people and so it's in his own book, that he admits doing this.

 

I got the link to Lucky Man from Rush's web page. Rush is basing what he said after reading MJF's own words. Does that "Jibe"? The media isn't going to bother using these quotes from Rush because they sound rational, intellegent, and well thought out. They are going to use what is the most sensational. The media wants everyone else's perception of Rush Limbaugh to be of someone who just shoots his mouth.

[ParanoiA]

Actually, the majority of Rush faithful are people who felt cut-off by liberal minded idiots that found their voice in Rush's program. For me, I didn't know how to articulate what I thought and felt about the message I was being brainwashed with throughout my early adult life. The first time I heard Rush I found myself saying over and over again "Hey, that's what I've always thought!" - I just didn't know how to say it. And I didn't have the background to support any of it.

 

It's not the conservative message that has taken the country. It's the country that has taken the conservative message. That's why the liberals spend all of their time tearing down republicans rather than building themselves up, because the majority of the country doesn't want what they're building.

 

It doesn't really mean anything though, because it will swing back before too long. The country will start yearning for the liberal message, and any liberals delivering that message will be heard, embraced and empowered. Then conservatives will be whining that liberals have duped the public into following them. And the only message they'll have is tearing democrats down.

 

Both ideologies claim they stand for real freedom, while both of them attempt to legislate behavior and restrict freedom of choice.

 

I just wish there was a liberal talk show personality that had an ounce of logic and substance to their views and spent all 3 hours pounding away at it - and could do it without government funding - like Rush. They've tried and they've failed...numerous times. And don't say it's because conservatives made too big of a footprint on radio, because it's been reported that almost half of Rush listeners are liberal. I don't know if I can find the source on that or not, it's been a few years, but I'll see if I can find it.

 

Anyway, I've got stop it with these long freaking posts....

[john5746]

They are going to use what is the most sensational. The media wants everyone else's perception of Rush Limbaugh to be of someone who just shoots his mouth.

 

That is better than how he tries to portray everyone he disagrees with.

 

The ironic thing is he is probably one of those closet conservatives who laughs at the religious right. I doubt he really cares about religious values at all.

[ParanoiA]

Excellent post Rhino.

 

Here's another quote from that transcript that I believe is worthy of note and is a direct example of what I was talking about in my previous post to Sisyphus. This is one of those things that always struck me wrong, even though it seems to be well accepted and repeated. When Rush says stuff like this I say "Hell yeah! That's what I've always thought" as opposed to indoctrinating me with the conservative rhetoric.

 

This is Rush on 10/24/06 -

 

Then you bring forth a person who's suffering the disease, and you illustrate the disease and the ravages and the suffering on TV to create sympathy and infallibility, because you're not supposed to be able to attack somebody or criticize somebody in any way or in any regard if they suffer from the disease. It's considered cold-hearted and cruel. What's happening here is that Michael Fox has entered the political arena with his attack, which includes false information about Senator Talent and Michael Steele in Maryland. That's fair game, and I am not going to follow the script that says we're not allowed to comment on the things said by participants, "victims," what have you, that the Democrats put forth as infallible in the middle of a political campaign.

[john5746]

That's a false argument. People aren't complaining about ANY disagreement with Fox, they are complaining about him making fun of his illness. He was wobbling around in his chair, personally attacking the guy. Same with Colter attacking the 9/11 wives. During the civil rights movements, they would have called MLK the "N" word and then complained that they couldn't attack him.

 

He apologized, so even he realizes he screwed up.

 

He is a drug abuser anyway, he probably had too much that day.

[ParanoiA]

He is a drug abuser anyway, he probably had too much that day.

 

There you go. Take the easy way out. With cheap shots like that, you should consider running for office.