I've been fermenting all sorts of vegetables recently to reduce spoilage waste in our hot, humid climate with a highly erratic power grid.

No issues with the rapid fermenters like cabbage and tomatoes, but the slower ones, like carrots, peppers, radishes etc are becoming susceptible to Kahm yeast.

Putting together the full sterilisation/oxygen exclusion kit out here is logistically challenged.

I've not come across anyone doing this, but it occurred to me that floating a 1 cm layer of vegetable oil on top of the brew might be a fair substitute for airlocks etc and keep it sufficiently anaerobic underneath while allowing the CO₂ to escape.

It appears to work a treat, but I'm unsure of how insoluble oxygen is in vegetable oil, and whether it might strip necessary components of the brew (eg lactic acid etc) out of the aqueous phase. I pretty sure it will scoff a fair bit of capsaicin for example.

Any thoughts?

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

I've been fermenting all sorts of vegetables recently to reduce spoilage waste in our hot, humid climate with a highly erratic power grid.

No issues with the rapid fermenters like cabbage and tomatoes, but the slower ones, like carrots, peppers, radishes etc are becoming susceptible to Kahm yeast.

Putting together the full sterilisation/oxygen exclusion kit out here is logistically challenged.

I've not come across anyone doing this, but it occurred to me that floating a 1 cm layer of vegetable oil on top of the brew might be a fair substitute for airlocks etc and keep it sufficiently anaerobic underneath while allowing the CO₂ to escape.

It appears to work a treat, but I'm unsure of how insoluble oxygen is in vegetable oil, and whether it might strip necessary components of the brew (eg lactic acid etc) out of the aqueous phase. I pretty sure it will scoff a fair bit of capsaicin for example.

Any thoughts?

I no experience or data to offer but lactic acid is very polar and I see is said to be not just soluble but miscible with water. This suggests to me it may not be very soluble in the oil phase. Capsaicin is another matter but perhaps you can make some useful chilli oil as a byproduct.

Are you using some live and fermenting juice from a previous session to inoculate and initiate fermentation quicker in a new batch, or letting it start itself? Water kefir grains have a wide diversity of micros in to make a starter from the beginning. The other thing that comes to mind with the CO2, could you use a small straight sided container with a brewer's airlock fitted in the lid to let it blanket the surface and cut the air off?

Edited October 23Oct 23 by StringJunky

Might be helpful: https://cleanfoodliving.net/kahm-yeast-what-is-it-is-it-harmful/

4 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

Any thoughts?

Are you doing vinegar ferments? Had an uncle who did this, he just stirred it regularly which disrupted the yeast formation.

For other ferments, if anaerobic, the oil sounds workable. Or fill the jar full, then seal, to minimize o2.

All else fails, there's canning. (Sidles away, laughing evilly...)

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

I no experience or data to offer but lactic acid is very polar and I see is said to be not just soluble but miscible with water. This suggests to me it may not be very soluble in the oil phase. Capsaicin is another matter but perhaps you can make some useful chilli oil as a byproduct.

Makes sense. Do you know which of the vitamins may strongly prefer the oil phase?

I imagine most stay locked within the plant cells? And there should be minimal contact between the oil and veggies.

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Are you using some live and fermenting juice from a previous session to inoculate and initiate fermentation quicker in a new batch, or letting it start itself?

Yes, I usually add some sauerkraut juice to be sure, but I've yet to have a fermentation stall on me. Because... climate. Even my 'cool room' will rarely drop below 25^oC. (I don't do aircon).

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

The other thing that comes to mind with the CO2, could you use a small straight sided container with a brewer's airlock fitted in the lid to let it blanket the surface and cut the air off?

Those local logistical issues I mentioned?

I had to ask my wife to obtain and hand-carry champagne yeast when she flew here a couple of months ago. The stuff just isn't available.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Might be helpful: https://cleanfoodliving.net/kahm-yeast-what-is-it-is-it-harmful/

Trouble is with US sites on this topic, they all use Mason jars, and the accessories are designed for that. I have a very strong preference for Kilner jars. Chalk and cheese.

16 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Are you doing vinegar ferments? Had an uncle who did this, he just stirred it regularly which disrupted the yeast formation.

Mainly plain lactic ferments. I do vinegar pickling as well (onion, beetroot, gherkins etc). In some concoctions, I suspect there's a bit of both going on.

Not 100% clear on what a 'vinegar ferment' is exactly.

25 minutes ago, TheVat said:

All else fails, there's canning. (Sidles away, laughing evilly...)

🤯

6 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

It appears to work a treat, but I'm unsure of how insoluble oxygen is in vegetable oil,

I would assume that oxygen is actually fairly soluble in vegetable oil at RT. I am not sure specifically about vegetable oil, but in most lipids (IIRC) the dissolved oxygen at a given temp and pressure was always significantly higher than in water.

I think what you are looking at is a bit if a physics questions. I.e. the diffusion of the respective compounds through at the lipid/water interface. If you have little headspace, and a sufficiently large oil volume and either a small surface area with the liquid beneath and/or a significantly slow diffusion rate, most of the oxygen in the headspace could be contained in the oil, with little being released via diffusion. There, the with sufficient abundance of facultative anaerobic bacteria the oxygen is likely going to be consumed before the yeast gets a chance.

For removal of liphilic content, again the surface interaction is going to determine the rate. Note that many metabolites, including vitamins are not simply released into the medium, where it freely diffuses.

2 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

Mainly plain lactic ferments. I do vinegar pickling as well (onion, beetroot, gherkins etc). In some concoctions, I suspect there's a bit of both going on.

Not 100% clear on what a 'vinegar ferment' is exactly.

Sorry, I didn't use nomenclature well. My uncle pickled, and yes that's too acidic for real fermentation to proceed, so the object is just preservation. Pickling gives longer shelf life, but minus the healthy effects of lactobacilli. Or strepto or bifido, depending on your culture and what works best for the vegetables in question.

I'm an absolute probiotic junkie myself - those little guys have pretty much peeled twenty years off the age of my gut. Everything from kimchi to sourdough to Icelandic oat skyr and other nondairy yoghurts to kombucha with B. coagulans.

I've bought pickles that are fermented (so somewhat a misnomer, for those who use pickling in its most technical sense), and are probiotic, like Oregon Brineworks. Definitely more flavor than conventional pickle-pickles, and convey a feeling of warmth in the gut, usually a good sign for me. OBW uses mainly lactobacilli, with some Leuconostoc mesenteroides as well which brings up the flavor and acidity but not so much as to harm the lactobacilli.

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

I would assume that oxygen is actually fairly soluble in vegetable oil at RT. I am not sure specifically about vegetable oil, but in most lipids (IIRC) the dissolved oxygen at a given temp and pressure was always significantly higher than in water.

Thanks for (almost!) confirming that. Which points a finger towards...

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

I think what you are looking at is a bit if a physics questions. I.e. the diffusion of the respective compounds through at the lipid/water interface. If you have little headspace, and a sufficiently large oil volume and either a small surface area with the liquid beneath and/or a significantly slow diffusion rate, most of the oxygen in the headspace could be contained in the oil, with little being released via diffusion. There, the with sufficient abundance of facultative anaerobic bacteria the oxygen is likely going to be consumed before the yeast gets a chance.

A thought occurs to me. While fermentation is active, the CO₂ bubbles evolved are highly unsaturated with regard to all other volatiles and therefore should make an effective stripping gas removing dissolved O₂ from both the aqueous and oil phases. This is a convective (ie orders of magnitude faster) process so even a modest diffusion barrier is going to act as pretty much a one way valve isn't it?

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

For removal of liphilic content, again the surface interaction is going to determine the rate. Note that many metabolites, including vitamins are not simply released into the medium, where it freely diffuses.

Hope so. Otherwise @TheVat would have to drink the brine to get his vitamins.

(I assume it was lipophilic there)

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

I'm an absolute probiotic junkie myself - those little guys have pretty much peeled twenty years off the age of my gut.

Me too. The diet change was instrumental in bringing me back from a bad place early in the year.

Freshly made fennel roti, egg and fermented tomato. A great start to every morning. For about 25c in ingredient cost.

Guess that's a whole-wheat taco to you lot.

On 10/23/2025 at 4:49 PM, StringJunky said:

Water kefir grains have a wide diversity of micros in to make a starter from the beginning.

Yeah. I create more kefir by adding to the previous kefir bottle more milk and the next day+ have a new stuff which even tastes better than the one bought in the shop..

On 10/23/2025 at 2:16 PM, sethoflagos said:

No issues with the rapid fermenters like cabbage and tomatoes, but the slower ones, like carrots, peppers, radishes etc are becoming susceptible to Kahm yeast.

From what I can see online, carrots and radishes ferment in 5-10 days. Only peppers (paprika) have a long fermentation time, measured in weeks, from your list.

I use a lot of garlic, onion, salt and black pepper. And that's enough to keep other microbes at bay, without blocking the air supply or keeping things in sterile conditions, etc., etc.

For 1-2 liters, you need one (or half) garlic and probably one (or half) onion, and 5-10 g of salt. Plus whatever you want to ferment.

On 10/23/2025 at 2:16 PM, sethoflagos said:

susceptible to Kahm yeast.

...check how much salt Kahm yeast can tolerate, and add a little more...

ps. You can remove overdosed salt after fermentation by placing the product in fresh water for a moment..

..or day..

People do this with herring that has been salted for months. Do they keep it in milk overnight? Or something like that..

The salt level in herring and the liquid then evens out.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Sensei

57 minutes ago, Sensei said:

From what I can see online, carrots and radishes ferment in 5-10 days. Only peppers (paprika) have a long fermentation time, measured in weeks, from your list.

So silly of me to place more trust in my own personal experience than online sources...

Seriously, while you can stop fermentation by refrigeration after 7 days, you can also allow fermentation to continue for longer, developing more acidity and more complex flavour.

By 'rapid fermenters' I mean those that degas almost explosively when I pop open the lid each morning. I don't get that with carrots or radishes (or Scotch bonnets, or jalapenos, or Ethiopian nightshade etc).

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

I use a lot of garlic, onion, salt and black pepper. And that's enough to keep other microbes at bay, without blocking the air supply or keeping things in sterile conditions, etc., etc.

I can't see onions helping as they have a high sugar content that would encourage yeast growth.

Regarding the rest, don't you find that their strong taste overpowers the subtle flavours you're trying(?) to develop?

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

...check how much salt Kahm yeast can tolerate, and add a little more...

I'm using a 6.5% brine for my Scotch bonnets/habaneros/ata rodo peppers. The yeast will still have a go at any floaters even at that strength. I've never had any hypertension issues (touchwood) and don't share the rampant online salt phobia. But there are limits.

Could an impermeable, solid, floating barrier fit to size on the surface in the container be an effective cut-off device? A small hole could be left in it to allow fermentation gases to escape.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by StringJunky

13 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Could an impermeable, solid, floating barrier fit to size on the surface in the container be an effective cut-off device? A small hole could be left in it to allow fermentation gases to escape.

I've something rather like stemless brandy glasses that match the throat of one of my Kilner sizes leaving an annulus of 1 or 2 mm for gas to escape. They work quite well, at keeping the stuff submerged.

I'm not knocking the principle, or any of the alternative solutions. Rather I'm asking if anyone can think of an issue with the oil seal method described that I might have missed. I'm curious as to why no one else seems to use it. It is cheap, and does appear quite effective.

During fermentation of wine etc. you use fermentation pipe which looks like:

It can also be used for fermenting vegetables. Although I didn't have to do that. It allows CO₂ to escape without O₂ getting inside. Without O₂, microorganisms that need it will not be able to grow.

2 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

So silly of me to place more trust in my own personal experience than online sources...

My personal experience tells me after a week everything is already consumed.. ;)

2 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

Regarding the rest, don't you find that their strong taste overpowers the subtle flavours you're trying(?) to develop?

I'm eating Caroline Reaper, 3.5L still to eat, which dominates everything.. ;)

Groats with Carolina Reaper taste the same as potatoes with Carolina Reaper, and the same as ground beef with Carolina Reaper.. ;)

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Could an impermeable, solid, floating barrier fit to size on the surface in the container be an effective cut-off device? A small hole could be left in it to allow fermentation gases to escape.

It is important that the vegetables we are fermenting remain submerged under water at all times. They need to be weighted down with something so that they do not float to the surface.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Sensei

39 minutes ago, Sensei said:

I'm eating Caroline Reaper, 3.5L still to eat, which dominates everything.. ;)

Groats with Carolina Reaper taste the same as potatoes with Carolina Reaper, and the same as ground beef with Carolina Reaper.. ;)

Really? I was under the impression that 500,000 Scoville was lethal to Lactobacilli etc.

5 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Could an impermeable, solid, floating barrier fit to size on the surface in the container be an effective cut-off device? A small hole could be left in it to allow fermentation gases to escape.

I've just discovered that those glass cups fit my small 1 litre Kilner jars as well, so I've evicted some lime pickle elsewhere and used one to ferment some okra I've been unsure of what to do with.

Okra floats so for sure, the vegetable oil barrier is going to be less effective. So +1 for steering me towards a workable solution for that one.

There are also pickle pipes (posting a link, not intended as spam, it just has good photos of the device)

https://www.amazon.com/Pickle-Pipe-One-Piece-Waterless-Fermentation/dp/B01726CJ9Y

5 minutes ago, TheVat said:

There are also pickle pipes (posting a link, not intended as spam, it just has good photos of the device)

https://www.amazon.com/Pickle-Pipe-One-Piece-Waterless-Fermentation/dp/B01726CJ9Y

As with @Sensei 's fermentation airlock (as if I wasn't using them 50 years ago for brewing my own beer🙄), I'm not going to blow a month's pension trying to DHL alcohol related merchandise into the Islamic end of a country with a customs service that makes the orange one look like a novice street corner hustler.

Look, I know it's difficult for people who've not lived in a place like this to understand, but many things you take for granted, and don't even consider not being available when you want them, just aren't available here.

So bear with me. When I say something is a 'logistical challenge', I mean that it may as well be fabricated from unobtainium ⚒️

PS Did that sound a bit rantish? Actually, I'm just chilling out on the balcony with a ciggie or two and a little nightcap to see me off to the Land of Nod. In late October, wearing just shorts and sandals. Life's good.

No issues at all with you just pipping me to the post at the last minute in yesterday's rep race. I'm way above that kind of pettiness. Honestly. Pleased for you actually. 😉

Seth. A visual, I thought a narrow pipe in the airhole might be beneficial in preventing overspill and something to grab hold of when inserting or removing the barrier. I appreciate you might not have easy access to measuring cylinders large enough, but was just thinking of a straight-sided vessel.

Edited October 26Oct 26 by StringJunky

42 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Seth. A visual, I thought a narrow pipe in the airhole might be beneficial in preventing overspill and something to grab hold of when inserting or removing the barrier. I appreciate you might not have easy access to measuring cylinders large enough, but was just thinking of a straight-sided vessel.

Or just let the float rise and fall as necessary, like a floating roof tank for storage of flammable liquids.

Add a smaller diameter insert inside the base of the pipe, drop in a suitably sized ball bearing and hey presto, we have a pretty good non-return valve to let the CO₂ out without letting any O₂ in.

Should work very well.

5 minutes ago, sethoflagos said:

Or just let the float rise and fall as necessary, like a floating roof tank for storage of flammable liquids.

Add a smaller diameter insert inside the base of the pipe, drop in a suitably sized ball bearing and hey presto, we have a pretty good non-return valve to let the CO₂ out without letting any O₂ in.

Should work very well.

😎

17 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

I'm not going to blow a month's pension trying to DHL alcohol related merchandise into the Islamic end of a country with a customs service that makes the orange one look like a novice street corner hustler.

Fair point. Though the mason jar valves I posted are not AFAIK used in the making of hooch. But yes, I could see possibly stern customs officers in an Islamic region looking askance. I like the ball bearing idea.

Shorts and sandals in late October is what we had here yesterday until around six pm, but that's freak weather in the Dakotas. It'll be down around -1 C. tonight. Or as we Yanks call it, 30.

27 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Fair point. Though the mason jar valves I posted are not AFAIK used in the making of hooch...

Metal screw caps don't work here as corrosion makes them jam fast. I've got a bunch of small (1 litre-ish) wide-necked jars with cork stoppers which I find very handy. But otherwise it's the Kilners. They're wonderful devices really. And burping them each morning during the ferment isn't much of a chore.

Actually, it would be a doddle to fit a length of 5 mm flexible pipe on those cork stoppers. Loop it with a couple of cable ties for an airlock and Bob's your uncle. Bet I could make them fit the Kilners too. Why didn't this occur to me months ago?

Of course, 4 mm OD silicone air hose would be perfect! Now all I need to do is find someone who services pneumatic equipment and cadge some of their stock. How much can a couple of metres of that cost? Bottle of Jack Daniels?

The key to effectively inhibiting or eliminating Candida albicans is to control its growth environment, especially by reducing oxygen exposure and adjusting fermentation conditions. Here are several effective methods:

1. Isolate oxygen

Kamma yeast is an aerobic microorganism, and reducing oxygen exposure can significantly inhibit its growth. During the fermentation process, ensure that the container is well sealed and use a water seal (such as the water seal device of a fermentation tank) or a tight lid to effectively isolate the air.

2. Adjust the fermentation environment

Temperature control: Keeping the fermentation environment at a lower temperature (such as refrigeration in a refrigerator) can slow down the growth of all microorganisms, including yeast.

Acidic environment: Increasing the acidity of fermented foods (such as adding lemon juice or vinegar) can inhibit the activity of cambium yeast.

3. Use salt or sugar

Adding an appropriate amount of salt or sugar to food (such as when making kimchi or jam) can create a high osmotic pressure environment and inhibit the growth of cambium yeast.

4. Maintain hygiene

Ensure that all tools and containers are clean and sterile, avoiding the introduction of other miscellaneous bacteria, thereby reducing competition and growth opportunities for Candida albicans.

5 hours ago, allenlee888 said:

The key to effectively inhibiting or eliminating Candida albicans is to control its growth environment, especially by reducing oxygen exposure and adjusting fermentation conditions. Here are several effective methods:

I can assure you that my pickle does not have thrush.