The Dawkins delusion, runs through this thread like it's a binary question that has correct answer.

Edited August 31Aug 31 by dimreepr

8 hours ago, HawkII said:

tricky for Gods

I would not have thought anything was too tricky for gods, they are gods.

2 hours ago, pinball1970 said:

I would not have thought anything was too tricky for gods, they are gods.

But we know from the Bible that if people see the Angels they will turn to Pillars of Salt. They never mentioned an off switch.

Edited August 31Aug 31 by HawkII

2 hours ago, HawkII said:

But we know from the Bible that if people see the Angels they will turn to Pillars of Salt. They never mentioned an off switch.

I thought God was the ultimate off switch. Or is she not omnipotent?

5 hours ago, HawkII said:

But we know from the Bible that if people see the Angels they will turn to Pillars of Salt. They never mentioned an off switch.

She was instructed not to look back at the destruction of Sodom which she failed to do.

One of the angels was Yhwh himself so he could have:

1. Told her, "When I say don't look back I mean don't look back!"

2. Maimed her in some way without killing her, say cut her little finger off.

3. Something else less lethal than turning her into a pillar of salt.

6 hours ago, pinball1970 said:

She was instructed not to look back at the destruction of Sodom which she failed to do.

One of the angels was Yhwh himself so he could have:

1. Told her, "When I say don't look back I mean don't look back!"

2. Maimed her in some way without killing her, say cut her little finger off.

3. Something else less lethal than turning her into a pillar of salt.

Or, it could mean 'if you keep harping on about "your big mistake", you may as well be a pillar of salt, for all the people who wants to talk to you.' 😉

8 hours ago, pinball1970 said:

She was instructed not to look back at the destruction of Sodom which she failed to do.

One of the angels was Yhwh himself so he could have:

1. Told her, "When I say don't look back I mean don't look back!"

2. Maimed her in some way without killing her, say cut her little finger off.

3. Something else less lethal than turning her into a pillar of salt.

LOL; Yhwh him/her self turns people into pillars of salt if they look at them?! No wonder they needed a Son (or Human Form of themself) when they were (or became a Father/Mother to) Jesus.

Edited September 1Sep 1 by HawkII

5 hours ago, HawkII said:

LOL; Yhwh him/her self turns people into pillars of salt if they look at them?! No wonder they needed a Son (or Human Form of themself) when they were (or became a Father/Mother to) Jesus.

I'll refer you to my first post then. Gods if they exist, can do anything they want, they are gods.

21 hours ago, HawkII said:

LOL; Yhwh him/her self turns people into pillars of salt if they look at them?! No wonder they needed a Son (or Human Form of themself) when they were (or became a Father/Mother to) Jesus.

Remind me, what is it that you want to discuss?

Also, can you confirm, which side of the coin you believe in (God good or god bad)?

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

But I think our view of omnipotent is limited. We know science and I often think about physics in church. But I don’t think our science is enough to decried omnipotence.

Like when we get to heaven is there a lot of singing? But math and science can be just as much used as a form of worship. Increasing the human understanding, curing a disease (as mentioned) or enjoying what there is to learn.

If the gods cannot remind us they are there what are we doing? I don’t mean just where we came from but what are these strange things like science are we doing?

If someone finds a pattern in Primes, Guass is not going to say I was so close. Einstein didn’t live long enough to complete unification.

Science is fun but I would argue that science is augmented by a personal God not rendered useless.

What do you think enlightenment mean's in the context of this thread?

Most of the "bible/s" seems to be more concerned with how to live and enjoying the singing; the only time we absolutely know that we can appreciate it (or not if it's hymns, I prefer Led Zeppelin).

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Remind me, what is it that you want to discuss?

Also, can you confirm, which side of the coin you believe in (God good or god bad)?

Knowing what we know about the Gods, how could they remind people to believe in them if one day people forgot them.

We are referring to all the Gods here. Even Norse Loki.

4 hours ago, HawkII said:

Knowing what we know about the Gods, how could they remind people to believe in them if one day people forgot them.

We are referring to all the Gods here. Even Norse Loki.

We have books.

We’re aware of the Greek and Roman gods. Gods from Mesopotamia, even.

But they’re gods. What would stop them from sending “signs” or appearing in visions, or whatever. I don’t understand what the conundrum is here.

11 hours ago, swansont said:

We have books.

We’re aware of the Greek and Roman gods. Gods from Mesopotamia, even.

But they’re gods. What would stop them from sending “signs” or appearing in visions, or whatever. I don’t understand what the conundrum is here.

The conundrum is;

In these modern times, the "signs" can be so easily explained away with science.

I'm still astonished that God needed an Angel Posse to help take down the two Cities of Soddom and Gommora. The great City of Troy was the size of London Trainstation. Each of these two Cities must have been even smaller than that one. On top of all this they couldn't ensure the safety of the people retreating.

If this God showed up today, we would just say they were Aliens. (Whilst talking to them without looking at them)

Edited September 3Sep 3 by HawkII

2 minutes ago, HawkII said:

The conundrum is;

In these modern times, the "signs" can be so easily explained away with science.

I'm still astonished that God needed an Angel Posse to help take down the two Cities of Soddom and Gommora. The great City of Troy was the size of London Trainstation. Each of these two Cities must have been even smaller than that one. On top of all this they couldn't ensure the safety of the people retreating.

If this God showed up today, we would just say they were Aliens. (Whilst talking to them without looking at them)

You're a strange cove, it's almost like you're attempting to rile both sides of the coin, do you live near a bridge?

10 minutes ago, HawkII said:

In these modern times, the "signs" can be so easily explained away with science.

Which signs did you have in mind? If they can be explained by science then they are natural not supernatural and part of the material world nothing to do with a god.

The Rainbow was claimed to be sign from Yhwh following the flood in the OT. Since rainbows can be explained and demonstrated easily by HS physics students today, I could claim that the flood story is made up.

I could also claim that other miraculous stories in the Bible are therefore also made up, rendering supernatural claims invalid.

19 minutes ago, HawkII said:

I'm still astonished that God needed an Angel Posse

He didn't, he was one of them.

17 minutes ago, HawkII said:

The conundrum is;

In these modern times, the "signs" can be so easily explained away with science.

There’s a reason for that. (left as an exercise for the reader)

But some signs in the Bible could not, such as Joshua 10:13 “the sun stood still, and the moon stopped”

17 minutes ago, HawkII said:

I'm still astonished that God needed an Angel Posse to help take down the two Cities of Soddom and Gommora. The great City of Troy was the size of London Trainstation. Each of these two Cities must have been even smaller than that one. On top of all this they couldn't ensure the safety of the people retreating.

Again, left as an exercise.

32 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

You're a strange cove, it's almost like you're attempting to rile both sides of the coin, do you live near a bridge?

They said the same thing about the show 'Ancient Aliens'

I am not Trolling, I am involved in a fun thought excercise

18 minutes ago, pinball1970 said:

He didn't, he was one of them.

Of course I know that God is/was one of them.

17 minutes ago, swansont said:

But some signs in the Bible could not, such as Joshua 10:13 “the sun stood still, and the moon stopped”

Seems God's best bet would be to mess with the Moon.

Hold it still

Or

Turn it Red

8 minutes ago, HawkII said:

They said the same thing about the show 'Ancient Aliens'

I am not Trolling, I am involved in a fun thought excercise

Then you're mistaken... ☹️

12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Then you're mistaken... ☹️

Excuse me?

This is a fun thought excercise.

We are having fun.

We are learning and having fun.

Just now, HawkII said:

Excuse me?

This is a fun thought excercise.

We are having fun.

We are learning and having fun.

This is a closed loop that emerged from beneath a bridge, your version of fun teaches nothing to no-one...

3 hours ago, HawkII said:

Of course I know that God is/was one of them.

Ok that's the opposite of what you said. Yhwh needing angels when he didn't need angels, that's what probably threw me.

22 hours ago, swansont said:

“the sun stood still, and the moon stopped”

I often wondered if this wasn't just an eclipse (or partial) near sunset on a cloudy day. Would people back then even know about cause and effect of one or have a good way of measuring whether the day was a half hour longer or shorter after engaging in hard physical activity for likely many days previously.

1 minute ago, npts2020 said:

I often wondered if this wasn't just an eclipse (or partial) near sunset on a cloudy day. Would people back then even know about cause and effect of one or have a good way of measuring whether the day was a half hour longer or shorter after engaging in hard physical activity for likely many days previously.

Or it just seemed like a long day because of the fighting (dying being the opposite of fun) and the story’s fantastical nature grew as it was repeated and people exaggerated. I know that’s a shocking concept, because nobody does that, right?

7 minutes ago, swansont said:

Or it just seemed like a long day because of the fighting (dying being the opposite of fun) and the story’s fantastical nature grew as it was repeated and people exaggerated. I know that’s a shocking concept, because nobody does that, right?

Exactly. If you don't know anything about eclipses and one day it starts getting dark toward the end of it then suddenly gets bright again to seemingly extend it....

16 minutes ago, swansont said:

Or it just seemed like a long day because of the fighting (dying being the opposite of fun) and the story’s fantastical nature grew as it was repeated and people exaggerated. I know that’s a shocking concept, because nobody does that, right?

Indeed, guilty...

But it's arguable that oral transmition of information is more effective at creating understanding across the generation's bc it evoles with the culture and the context is clear.

The written word is frozen information in time, for the same reasons.

On 9/3/2025 at 1:29 PM, pinball1970 said:

The Rainbow was claimed to be sign from Yhwh following the flood in the OT. Since rainbows can be explained and demonstrated easily by HS physics students today, I could claim that the flood story is made up.

It was also claimed to have seven colour's by Newton, bc seven is his lucky number, he shoe-horned/made-up indigo...

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, guilty...

But it's arguable that oral transmition of information is more effective at creating understanding across the generation's bc it evoles with the culture and the context is clear.

The written word is frozen information in time, for the same reasons.

The issue is veracity, and memory is a fluid thing.

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

It was also claimed to have seven colour's by Newton, bc seven is his lucky number, he shoe-horned/made-up indigo...

The story I recall is that he wanted it to match the notes in music