Deuterium is isotope of hydrogen with
One proton / neutron pair inside nucleus and two electrons in electron cloud.

In this simulation deuterium binding energies between proton and neutron will be simulated by movement of four spheres (traveling through super fluid (no friction).
Two bigger spheres have the size of proton and neutron respectively.
The size of two spheres simulating electrons are not known ,but mass is known.In further text this will be explained .
The fluid flow follows Bernoulli’s principle.

The speed of moving spheres is 6x10e5 m/s.
At the  distance  of 1x10^-15 m
between bigger spheres ,the force F=2x10^4.
At distance of 2.75 x10^-15 m force F=0N
The distance if 2.75 /2 ‎ = 1.375 x10^-15 is the circular layer  or bubble of fluid flow around bigger spheres.
This is area A1 (when spheres are close - bubbles overlapping)
And A2 when spheres are far.

The speed of fluid between bigger spheres is 0.9999999999C
In further text for simplified calculation the speed  v=3x10e8m

The work needed to separate the spheres,or to move them for distance of 1.75x10^-15 m is
W=2x10^4 x 1.75 x10^-15=3.5x10^-11 w

From Bernoulli principle ,the change from static energy to dynamic energy is accomplished by change of speed or area of the flow of fluid.

In this case increase of distance between the bigger spheres will cause the speed to decrease .

A1 x v1=A2 x v2

2x r1^2xPix v1=r2^2xPix2 x v2

From formula above the speed
V2=0.39x10^8m/s

The change in dynamic pressure of Bernoulli is
1/2x D x v1^2-1/2 xDx v2^2=E
D - density of fluid
E=Dx 1/2(v1^2-v2^2)
E=Dx 1/2(9x10^16-0.15x10^16)
E=D x4.375x10e16

The work needed to separate the big spheres is equal to energy of change of speed of fluid :
W=E

3.5x10^-11=Dx 4.375x10^16

Density of fluid:

D=0.73x10^-27kg/m3





Area of electron cloud average
r3=0.54x10^-10m

From
A1xV1=Ax v3
1x10^-30 x3x10^8/0.29x10^-20=v3

V3=0.1m/s

This is the speed of fluid at the r3 distance form center of deuterium.
At r2 the speed of flow is
V2=0.39x10^8

The speed of fluid in electron cloud goes from 0.38 x10^8 to 0.1 m/s and than to 0.





The size of spheres simulating electrons is not known.What is very well known (from hydrogen fine structure)is the energy electron release when going from n1 shel to n2 shell.
That is the energy of ultra violet photon Eev=4.3x10^-6eV

This is
Ee=4.3x10^-6x 1.6x10^-19=6.88x10^-25J

From formula above

Eev=1/2 x D x v ev

V ev^2=6.88x10^-25/0.5x 0.73x10^-27

V eV=9.4x10^-2

Vev=0.09m/s

From

A1v1=AevVev

The r ev=(0.1-0.09)x0.54 x10^-10
rev=0.01x0.54 x10^-10
r ev =5.4c10^-13m


This is thickness of n1 electron shell-in this simulation .

Conclusion:

Moving of  4 spheres
through fluid with density similar to dark mater at the speed equal to speed of Milky Way galaxy (to microwave radiation background )is capable to crate force of magnitude equal to nuclear strong force .

It is known that
theoretical dark matter is interacting only with gravity .



In this simulation with great certainty we can say that theoretical fluid (with similar to density of Dark matter ) is interacting with baryonic matter through Bernoulli principle .
If the galaxies are made of big number of proton neutron sized so where ,  same fluid works between galaxies using Bernoulli principle .

In this simulation the strong force and gravitational force have the same origin .

1 hour ago, jv1 said:

Deuterium is isotope of hydrogen with
One proton / neutron pair inside nucleus and two electrons in electron cloud.

?

The isotope deuterium has one proton, one neutron and one electron as far as I know.

Correct ,sorry

Here is one more simulation :

Simulation of electrostatic force between electron and proton :
The F =8.19x10^-8N

Average distance rav=5.29x10^-11m

From probability of electron inside electron cloud graph , we can calculate the distance where average electrostatic force is acting .
The distance L=2x10^-10m.

[electron from s1  area (1x10^-10m) minus s2 area (3x10^-10m)]


The work of electrostatic force is

W=FxL




V^2=4.33x10^-18x2/0.74x10e-27

V=10^-3=0.001*******




This is diference in speed between s1 and s2

The speed in s1 is

rs1^2 x v=r^2x v (proton / neutron pair)

1x10^-20 x v =10^-30 x 3x10-^8

Vs1=3x10e-2=0.03


Speed vs2

Vs2=10^-30 X 3x10^8/9 x10^-20

Vs2=0.33x20^-2=0.033

Delta v=0.033-0.03=0.003*******

From this simulation we can say that electrostic force between proton and neutron can be simulated by flow of super fluid

Sorry

I was not clear - deuterium has one electron ,but in simulation there is going to be 2 electrons used - one at very “far” distance

And one more thing

7 hours ago, jv1 said:

The speed of moving spheres is 6x10e5 m/s.
At the  distance  of 1x10^-15 m
between bigger spheres ,the force F=2x10^4.
At distance of 2.75 x10^-15 m force F=0N
The distance if 2.75 /2 ‎ = 1.375 x10^-15 is the circular layer  or bubble of fluid flow around bigger spheres.
This is area A1 (when spheres are close - bubbles overlapping)
And A2 when spheres are far.

How do you arrive at these numbers?

An object moving in a circular path requires a centripetal force of mv^2/r. How can they have this motion if the force drops to zero?

The work needed to separate the spheres,or to move them for distance of 1.75x10^-15 m is
W=2x10^4 x 1.75 x10^-15=3.5x10^-11 w

N-m is joules, not watts, but why would the force be constant? Centripetal force varies with r

Density of fluid:

D=0.73x10^-27kg/m3

How do you account for the mass-energy of this fluid, in light of the known masses of neutrons and protons and the mass of deuterium, and its binding energy?

What’s the fluid made of? What happens to it when you separate the particles? Where does it come from when deuterium forms?

The numbers are borrowed from strong nuclear force graph .

The speed 0.999999 of C in between proton and neutron is borrowed from the speed of gluon - the carrier of strong force .

The force created by moving sphere inside the fluid interaction of mass of fluid to mass of sphere moving at speed v.

Single sphere creates pressure bubble

In this simulation proton and neutron presure bubbles are overlapping.

This overlap is forcedby work of big bang .

The pressure(static and dynamic) inside the bubbles are equalized and they crate force .

There is no centripetal force *********

The electron is “vortex” of fluid crated by turbulent flow .

Electron cloud in this simulation does not have the same electron inside spinning .

Electrons - many of them are constantly flowing through the electron cloud in the direction opposite of moving proton /neutron pair.

Electron cloud in this simulation is flow of turbulent “vortexes” inside tue laminated flow of fluid around deuterium nucleus .

The electrostatic force - is crated by diference in fluid static and dynamic pressure of fluid traveling around proton and electron .

The distance from center of deuterium is the key factor in static / dynamic energies (pressures ) of moving fluid .

To separate proton neutron ,or electron from the cloud the work spent by big bang has to be reversed .

Do you have any back ground in aerodynamics ?

Or fluid mechanics ?

May I make a little digression and try to explain moving of sphere through the fluid ?

Our professor in uni used this example (only for visualization purposes).

The bullet fired in to the ballistic gel block.

The bubble is created .

This bubble is created by moving mass of gel.

The layer of moving mass of gel closer to the bullet will move at speed of bullet.

The moving mass speed will drop down with diameter of bubble increasing.

When two bullets enter the gel at the same time ,at distance L , from each other ,

Two pressure bubbles will interact .

Two bubbles are becoming 1 bubble.

The area between bullets will have component P

static pressure and component 1/2Dv1^2 dynamic pressure .

On the outside of bullets bubble pressure P and 1/2Dv2^2 components .

Total energy (static +dynamic pressure) is equal

Components in between and outside of bullets are different because of different speeds v1 and v2 .

In this deuterium simulation proton and neutron are bullets.

The ballistic gel is fluid

From relativistic /quantum view:

Bullets are baryonic matter

The ballistic gel block is time space field.

The pressure bubble is curvature of space time.

The components if energy are

E=mc^2=mo x c^2 +1/2 mo v^2

The hydron colliders can be seen (principe of operation)as two bullets hitting each other had on .

The electron positron colliders can be seen as two bulets traveling in opposite directions close to each other .

The bullets spin in flight for stabilization .

The pressure bubbles of bullets traveling in opposite directions will have “vortexes “or turbulent eddies spinning in opposite direction.

This is how electron and positron are created - in bullet / gel simulation.

After this shirt crush course,

Let’s get back to deuterium atom simulation.

From strong force and distances (strong force graph) we can calculate the work done by big bang to “push” proton and neutron pressure bubbles to overlap.

W=FL

The increase in distance between proton and neutron spheres will cause the speed to drop.

Kinetic energy (dynamic pressure) of moving fluid component

1/2DV^2=W

in this formula

D=?

V=?

The strong nuclear force is created by gluon interaction .

The speed of gluon is C.

For simulation,we can not use the C - only massless particles travel at C.

V=0.9999999C

From formula above we get that density of fluid in simulation is

D=0.74x10e-27kg/m3

From center of deuterium atom (two spheres )

For any distance the speed can be calculated .

The kinetic energy (dynamic pressure) of fluid is calculated (1/2Dv^2)

The dynamic pressure is component which pushes back on electron - with the same force (energy) electron is pushing in to the fluid.

The formula is so accurate as you can see from examples of hydrogen fine structure energies

And electron distances in electron cloud.

10 hours ago, jv1 said:

There is no centripetal force *********

You can’t have circular motion without one. This is first-semester physics.

52 minutes ago, jv1 said:

May I make a little digression and try to explain moving of sphere through the fluid ?

Without fixing the problems of what you’ve already presented, or answering question that have been asked, what’s the point?

Just now, jv1 said:

Our professor in uni used this example (only for visualization purposes).

If you don't mind my asking

What University are you at and what course are you studying ?

Centrifugal force in fluid dynamics is an apparent outward force experienced by an object moving in a rotating frame of reference. It's not a real force in the sense that it doesn't have an external source like gravity or friction, but rather an inertial effect. In a fluid, this force causes particles to move outward from the center of rotation, creating a high-pressure region on the outside and a low-pressure region on the inside. 

I was at university 35 years ago😞

This is how electrons are created in simulation

The constant flow of different electrons in electron cloud are perceived like one electron rendomly showing up.

1 minute ago, jv1 said:

Centrifugal force in fluid dynamics is an apparent outward force experienced by an object moving in a rotating frame of reference. It's not a real force in the sense that it doesn't have an external source like gravity or friction, but rather an inertial effect. In a fluid, this force causes particles to move outward from the center of rotation, creating a high-pressure region on the outside and a low-pressure region on the inside. 

(you should cite your sources)

This is fine but I said centripetal force, and we’re not in a rotating frame of reference.

Centripetal force is the force necessary to keep objects moving in circular motion; in this case it would be the nuclear force between your spheres. Objects moving in a circle are accelerating. If there’s no force (toward the center), objects will move in a straight line, per Newton’s first law.

9 minutes ago, jv1 said:

This is how electrons are created in simulation

The constant flow of different electrons in electron cloud are perceived like one electron rendomly showing up.

Giving us more flawed explanations does not address the flaws you’ve already presented. It’s just a distraction. Either answer all the questions, or this gets locked.

In fluid mechanics, centripetal force refers to the force required to keep a fluid particle moving in a circular path, and it is always directed towards the center of the circular motion. This force is often associated with rotational motion, like in a vortex or when a fluid is forced into a curve. 

In a rotating fluid, the pressure on the inside of the curve is lower than on the outside. This pressure difference creates an inward force (centripetal force) that keeps the fluid moving along the curve.

Just from the definition of centrifugal force - one can assume that centripetal force is the opposite phenomena .

The “common “ Clasic Newtonian physics is not the way to go with fluid mechanics .

Just now, jv1 said:

The “common “ Clasic Newtonian physics is not the way to go with fluid mechanics .

I would like to know why you think that.

I wanted to tell swamsnot that classical centrifugal and centripetal forces created by mass and gravity for example are not the way to think about the same forces inside moving fluid .

One more thing

The contraction of length at speed close to speed of light can be explained using

This simulation :

From formula

r1^2 v1=r2^2xv2

if deuterium atom is moving close to C

The flow in between proton and neutron will be C - not cahnged.

The speed on the other sides will increase to C

From formula above the distance between and outside of proton and neutron will be the same .

So bubble “height “ will be 4x10e-15m

Instead of height of 4.5 x10e-15 m

This is in the direction of flight .

The bubble width will stay the same in both case 6.5 x10e-15.

28 minutes ago, jv1 said:

I wanted to tell swamsnot that classical centrifugal and centripetal forces created by mass and gravity for example are not the way to think about the same forces inside moving fluid .

What’s so special about being inside a fluid that negates Newton’s laws of motion?

The “common “ Clasic Newtonian physics is not the way to go with fluid mechanics

Your own post says that this isn’t true. You said (was it plagiarized?) “In fluid mechanics, centripetal force refers to the force required to keep a fluid particle moving in a circular path”

Just from the definition of centrifugal force - one can assume that centripetal force is the opposite phenomena .

That, too, would be wrong. Whatever is providing the centripetal force is an actual force, and is present when analyzed in an inertial frame of reference. Centrifugal force is a fictitious force that shows up in a rotating frame of reference and allows you to apply Newton’s laws of motion.

Swansnot

Centripetal force is governed by Newton's Second Law (F=ma), specifically, it's the force that causes an object to move in a circular path, and its direction is always towards the center of that circle. Centrifugal force, on the other hand, is an apparent force experienced in a rotating frame of reference, and it's an equal and opposite reaction to the centripetal force, according to Newton's Third Law. 

On the other hand

Newton's laws of motion, including his first, second, and third laws, are applicable to objects within moving fluids, but with some considerations. The first law, the law of inertia, applies, meaning a fluid element will remain at rest or in uniform motion unless acted upon by an external force. However, in fluids, this can be influenced by pressure gradients, viscous forces, and drag from the surrounding environment. Newton's second law, which relates force to acceleration (F=ma), still holds, but the forces acting on a fluid element can be complex and include pressure, viscous forces, and buoyancy. Newton's third law, the law of action and reaction, also applies, meaning a fluid particle exerts a force on a body moving within it, and the body exerts an equal and opposite force back on the fluid.

Swansnot

You are very knowledgeable in many aspects and I respect annd listen to every question and suggestion you have made ,not only in this thread ,but in all of them.

Luckily in space there is no friction to worry about.

So every formula and every value in this simulation is used form real world,both Newtonian and quantum physics .

Without strong force graph,fine structure of deuterium page ,the probability of electron position I would not be able to do anything in this simulation .

The key value and fact in all of this is gluon ,carrier of strong force , traveling at speed of light.

Any similarity between results of simulation and the real world is coincidental (I joke - it is more than welcome ).

Have you had time to have a closer look at calculations ?

They are so simple but effective .

Especially the length contraction - this was predicted by Lorentz long time before Einstein.

How does your length contraction "explanation" square with the reciprocity of effects?

i.e. for you that spaceship flying past at constant speed of 0.99 c might be length contracted - but for them, their rulers are all normal in all directions, and it's you who is moving, and length contracted.

Just now, jv1 said:

Swansnot

Swansnot

You are very knowledgeable in many aspects and I respect annd listen to every question and suggestion you have made ,not only in this thread ,but in all of them.

Can I respectfully suggest you make the effort to get swansont's name right ?

I know I make a lot of typos but this would show some actual respect.

Just now, jv1 said:

Centripetal force is governed by Newton's Second Law (F=ma), specifically, it's the force that causes an object to move in a circular path, and its direction is always towards the center of that circle. Centrifugal force, on the other hand, is an apparent force experienced in a rotating frame of reference, and it's an equal and opposite reaction to the centripetal force, according to Newton's Third Law. 

On the other hand

Newton's laws of motion, including his first, second, and third laws, are applicable to objects within moving fluids, but with some considerations. The first law, the law of inertia, applies, meaning a fluid element will remain at rest or in uniform motion unless acted upon by an external force. However, in fluids, this can be influenced by pressure gradients, viscous forces, and drag from the surrounding environment. Newton's second law, which relates force to acceleration (F=ma), still holds, but the forces acting on a fluid element can be complex and include pressure, viscous forces, and buoyancy. Newton's third law, the law of action and reaction, also applies, meaning a fluid particle exerts a force on a body moving within it, and the body exerts an equal and opposite force back on the fluid.

Can I also recommend a course in basic mechanics as you are just so wildly adrift here.

This is needed particularly before venturing into fluid mechanics where there are indeed two forms of analysis the Lagrangian formulation and the Eulerian formulation.

But you should also be aware that these two formulations, aalthough they appear different are actually equivalent.

Edited June 11Jun 11 by studiot

Omg I apologize Swansont.

The ruler is traveling at the same speed - the atoms inside the ruler are contracted ,too?

This simulation is using data from calculations done by quantum mechanics .

That is simplicity of this simulation .

I use formula from Newtonian physics.

Two of them.

And the results work.

1. The super fluid which baryonic matter is moving throughput ,has density of dark mater .

   The matter which is 25 %of universe

2. The speed of gluon of C is confirmed to be true

3. The distance between center of atom and electron in any position inside the cloud can be calculated.

4. The length contraction high speed explained without Einstein- like Lorentz predicted it

?

You missed the most important part: "... and it's you who is moving, and length contracted."

Sorry

I was interpreted

5. The electrostatic force is equal to force created between electron and proton by moving fluid between them

6. The gravitational force - 10^58 pressure bubles of atoms will create pretty big pressure buble .

   Inside smaller bubles are creating atractive and repulsive forces - depending on relative position to each other)

   the big outside bubble will interact with other (plante) the same way proton and neutron interct - fractal nature of universe

7. Al forces have the same origin - fluid movement between baryionic matter r

1 hour ago, jv1 said:

Newton's laws of motion, including his first, second, and third laws, are applicable to objects within moving fluids, but with some considerations. The first law, the law of inertia, applies, meaning a fluid element will remain at rest or in uniform motion unless acted upon by an external force. However, in fluids, this can be influenced by pressure gradients, viscous forces, and drag from the surrounding environment. Newton's second law, which relates force to acceleration (F=ma), still holds, but the forces acting on a fluid element can be complex and include pressure, viscous forces, and buoyancy. Newton's third law, the law of action and reaction, also applies, meaning a fluid particle exerts a force on a body moving within it, and the body exerts an equal and opposite force back on the fluid.

More complicated does not mean the laws don’t apply. You have pressure gradients and viscosity, but you still must have a force directed toward the center. And it follows a formula, that your model does not appear to follow.

I also asked:

How do you account for the mass-energy of this fluid, in light of the known masses of neutrons and protons and the mass of deuterium, and its binding energy?

What’s the fluid made of? What happens to it when you separate the particles? Where does it come from when deuterium forms?

Without addressing these, anything built on the flawed model will also be flawed.

The Bernoulli formula:

P1+1/2DV1^2=Pe +1-2Dve^2=Po

Po-static pressure of fluid acting on electron cloud (pressure bubble of deuterium atom).

P1=static pressure acting in the middle of deuterium atom

Ve=0.088m/s(at average radius 5.4x10^-11)

Pe=static pressure working on electron surface

P1=F/A(strong force over area of proton/ neuron cross section- static pressure).

P1=9x10^33Pa

P1+ 1/2DV1^2-1/2DVe^2

The dynamic pressure from (which is equal to portion of fluid acting on the proton and electron ,respectively )

for proton neutron dynamic pressure is in 10^-9 and for electron 10^-27 magnitude .

This is the dynamic energy of fluid acting on proton electron pair .It is negligible to energy of static pressure of fluid .

From calculation from above - simulation confirmed that electrostatic force between proton and electron is equal to to force created by static pressure Pe acting on area of electron

Electrostatic force (force produced by equilibrium of pressures Po and P1)

Fe=8.25x10^-8N

Ae=F/Po

Ae=8.25x10^-8/9x10^33

Ae=9.1x10^-40m^2

Ae=2.44x10e-20m*********

The volume of electron is

V=6x 10^-59

me=VxD

me=6x10^-59x 0.74x10^-27

me=4.44x10^-86kg********

The electron made of fluid (probably “vortex”the size re=2.44x10^-20)

Is capable to produce force equal to electrostatic force.

By the way what is the size of electron ?

Mass is known - but size ?

To answer your question where the fluid is coming from - i do not know .

It has density very close to density of dark matter.

It is theoretical term ,but it was calculated that dark mater interacts with gravity .

25% of universe is made of dark matter.

From this simulation the dark matter interacts with strong force and electrostatic force .

In this simulation fluid /dark alter Interacts with baryonic matter through Bernoulli principle.

And we know that it interacts with gravity.

So- in this simulation all 4 forces of nature have the same origin.

Cheers

54 minutes ago, jv1 said:

this simulation all 4 forces of nature have the same origin

We shut down a previous thread that claimed this, and you don’t get to only respond to one or two things.

Physics isn’t a-la-carte. You can’t only include some bits of it while ignoring the rest.

Don’t bring this up again.