9 minutes ago, jv1 said:

One more thing

Gluon - it is disturbance of the quantum field ,which is responsible for 98 % of 988MeV binding energy of proton .

We say that gluons are exchanged between quarks - in this speculative story of mine - gluon is not exchanged between quarks - it travels around the quarks .

The quarks are pushed by big number of massless gluons and the number of gluons from outside is bigger and has bigger energy than number of gluons which are traveling in between quarks .

It does not matter are the quarks particles or waves - they will be affected .

Gluon travels at the speed of light. And it travels in loop with diameter of 10e26m(size of visible universe ) or probably more .

The gravitational force is crated by the same gluons - gluon is what we call graviton .

Only in your neurological reference frame.

Nuclons (proton neutron ) are very stable systems.

When i say strong force energy I meant energy needed to provide the strong force for 1 second.

For period of one second the energy and work are the same thing.

The Planck force

• Approximate Value:

  The Planck force is approximately 1.21 x 10^44 Newtons. 

• Significance:

  The Planck force is a fundamental quantity that arises when considering the limits of our current understanding of physics at the Planck scale (the smallest meaningful length, time, etc.). It's thought to play a role in the potential unification of all fundamental forces (gravity, electromagnetism, weak force, and strong force) at the Planck energy. 

It just happens to be equal to hypothetical surface force of bubble created by liquid drip model of visible universe .

As mentioned above ,it is thought to play role in. Potential unification of forces ….

About my neurological reference frame - every new idea is considered lunacy until proven to be true.

Let me use this opportunity while I am still excused for what ever I do or say 😜

To ask one more unusual question :

Has anybody here b this forum found the idea anytime in history - that baryonic matter was made of aether ?

3 hours ago, jv1 said:

Liquid drop model of visible universe is used to explain how gravitational atractive force (which are long range force ) can be seen the same way as a strong Force acting in the short range.

The proton neutron binding energy is 2.2 MeV(for deuterium).Energy needed to hold deuterium together - and they are held together by strong force (this force is product of binding energy).

Bound systems like galaxies and nuclei release energy when forming. Thus, no energy is required to hold them together. Energy is required to break them apart.

3 hours ago, jv1 said:

Instead of calculating every atom in the universe , for simplicity we can

There qre 6-7 protons for each neutron in visible universe .

The same goes for 2 average size galaxies at average distance in visible universe .

Gravitational force between two galaxies is product of gravitational energy created by proton neutron pairs inside the galaxy

Now 10e38 is magnitude difference between gravity and strong force inside the nucleon - It would be logical that sum of all energies of proton neutron pair would be 10e38 times bigger than sum of average gravitational energies in visible universe?

Correct?

A nucleon infalling into a galaxy will acquire a speed of less than 1000 km/s as it gets to any place outside the core. So v/c is 1e3/3e5, making (v/c)^2 ~ 10^-5

For a nucleon, that’s a KE of around 5 keV. If there are 100 protons per neutron, and even if they were all in deuterium, that still only 500 keV vs 2.2 MeV

I see what you do not get - every galaxy insert the attracting force to all galaxies .

The biggest attractive force is to closest one .

Instead of calculating each individual galaxy acting on the real life neighbours,the visible can be seen as N number of average galaxies .

This simplified view of visible universe and galaxies inside is very similar to liquid drop model of nucleus.

Every second the force is acting between galaxies - work is done - in one second the work done is equal to energy .

The energy spent in one second to produce gravitational forces is the total energy of gravity I am talking about .

The galaxy is made of stars ,planets - they are made of molecules and atoms.

Atoms of all visible universe are seen as deuterium to simplify calculation .

The same way the average pair of galaxies are used above.

Deuterium - proton neutron pair is constantly bound by strong force and in one second work is done to produce the force between the two.

This was done by constant exchange of gluons.

Gluons carry the 2 mev of energy per second .

10e79pairs of proton neutron in one second has the same energy as the gravitational energy of pair of average galaxies spent on gravitational force between them.

If we use average energy per second gravitational force between proton and neutron

6.9x10e-11x 1.6x10e-27 x1.6x10e-27 / 086 x10e-15=10e-40

10e-40 x10e79 for number of pairs

Total gravitational energy produced to keep atractive gravitational force between proton neutrons of hole universe is 10e39J

If we take in consideration that distance between pair Averge galaxies is 3x10e22

The total energy is going to be 10e17J

That is 10e60 value for strong force energy(per second gravitational) / 10e17

That is 10e43 diference in amplitude d.

The conventional thought is that 10e38 is diference in amplitude between strong force and gravity.

Gravitational energy from average galaxies - made of the same proton neutron pairs Is 10e58.this should be 10e17 too - but it is not .

1 hour ago, jv1 said:

Deuterium - proton neutron pair is constantly bound by strong force and in one second work is done to produce the force between the two.

No. Work add or subtracts energy from a system. Once the bond is formed, the energy of the system is constant - no work is being done.

Gravitational

Potential Energy

beyond Earth

Potential energy

is particularly useful for forces that change with

position

, as the gravitational

force

does over large distances.

And

The strong force, also known as the strong nuclear force, is responsible for holding together the protons and neutrons within the nucleus of an atom, and it also binds quarks together within these particles. The energy associated with this force is referred to as the nuclear binding energy. This binding energy is the energy released when nucleons (protons and neutrons) combine to form a nucleus, or the energy required to separate them. The stronger the binding energy, the more stable the nucleus. 

Gravitational potential energy is minimum energy needed to separate - pull away two average galaxies from average distance .

The same for strong interaction binding energy- is minimum energy to pull apart proton and neutron .

I said that in time frame of 1second - as an example - becouse in one second

Energy of separation =Work of separation

J/s=W

Joul per second is wat

6 hours ago, jv1 said:

Gravitational potential energy is minimum energy needed to separate - pull away two average galaxies from average distance .

The same for strong interaction binding energy- is minimum energy to pull apart proton and neutron .

I said that in time frame of 1second - as an example - becouse in one second

Energy of separation =Work of separation

J/s=W

Joul per second is wat

Pulling the system apart, or assembling it, is not the same situation as the steady state you were describing earlier. Energy is required or released if you change the configuration, but not to maintain it.

Yes

And again system has bonding energy it is constant .

To brake apart proton neutron - work in one second is equal to energy inside the system .

E/t=W

In one second Energy

E=W

Work done in one second by any energy which is equal to bonding energy (2.2x1.6x10e-13J)

Is equal to separating energy needed to take a part deuterium.

So two works done in 1 second (by any energy- collision for example ):

1)Bonding energy of deuterium =work of separation (in one second)

2)potential gravitational energy = work of separation (in one second)

Ergo:

In liquid drop model of visible universe ,

In period of time of one second - The bonding energy of deuterium for the hole visible universe is equal to gravitational potential energy of galaxies shown as nucleon.

Again for time if one second work and energy are calculated

E=W=Fxs

In any other case work and energy systems are incomparable

Just now, jv1 said:

And again system has bonding energy it is constant .

To brake apart proton neutron - work in one second is equal to energy inside the system .

E/t=W

In one second Energy

E=W

Really ?

You don't seem to have addressed my last comment

Perhaps you will address this one.

You have completely failed to distinguish between Work and Power,

thus making your statements dimensionally inconsistent.

Thank you for pointing that out

In visual universe bubble the time period should be in light years .

In deuterium / the time period should be in Plancks time

I went with one second so there is no confusion .

Both systems have the same energy,and in one second transfer of energy (Work) will be equal

For both

and amount of energy transferred in one second (power ) will be equal for both

The scale of light years 31.5x10e6

and Planck time to 10e-43 s

Are both based per 1second.

In the liquid drop model of visible universe there is 10e12 average size galaxies .

Each galaxy is made of 10e68 deuterium

The average distance between distance galaxies is 2x10e22m

The gravitational potential energy is 10e50.

Now:

The liquid droP model states that nucleons are the same size and they are at the same distances inside the bubble (drop).

If deuterium nucleus is used at average distance inside the bubble (without ) being positioned in average galaxies (10e68 in one)

The 10e79 deuterium atoms are positioned At 10e78m3(volume of visible universe ) bubble

At distances of roughly 1 mm(10e-3m)

The gravitational energy(potential ) between two neighbouring nucleus’s will be

6.9x10e-11x4x1.6x19e-54/10e-3=8.39×10⁻⁶⁰

this energy times 10e79 (total number of deuterium ) is 10e18J

So separation energy for this system would be 10e42 times smaller than energy of strong interaction - this is what standard model is saying us .

But when deuterium is positioned in average galaxies - we have confirmation that gravity could be strong interaction - or have the same

Nature .

Now

Gluons

The speed of gluons is C(3x10e8m/s)

Distance gluing travels is s=0.89x10e-15m

s/C=t

t=0.3x10e-23s

Impulse P=Fxt=10e4x0.3x10e-23=0.3x10e-19

N- number of impulse per second

N=E binding / P

N=3x10e13/0.3x10e-19

N=10e7

This is the number of impulses per second where gluon is transferring energy (strong interaction ) between proton and neutron .

For this ,the gluons have to travel in between and on the outside of protons and neutron .

The impulses from outside will be bigger than impulse form within.

That is how strong force is crated.

And gravity

For first scenario of liquid drop model 10e68 of deuterium only gluon actin on the nucleuses at the outside (on the surface e of half bubble ) will create gravitational force .

The fluids “inside the galaxy “ will neutralize each other - the resistant force will be zero

4 hours ago, jv1 said:

The bonding energy of deuterium for the hole visible universe is equal to gravitational potential energy of galaxies shown as nucleon.

Despite your fixation on things happening in one second, for no discernible reason, you have not shown this to be the case in reality. And even if it is, so what? that does not make the interactions the same.

In real life 10e7 impulses per second created by gluons when traveling at speed of light is what makes momentum transfer and Ceres strong nuclear force .

And the same impulses only 10e7 c10e n

n- number of proton neutron pair in “surface “ of each galaxy in real world.

Hahaha

Sorry about mistakes :

Impulses create strong force -

10e7x10en=number of gluon crated impulses - create real gravitational force between two galaxies s.

Or any objects with mass in real world

3 minutes ago, jv1 said:

In real life 10e7 impulses per second created by gluons

Reference? Or are you just making this up?

I just calculated it :

Gluons

The speed of gluons is C(3x10e8m/s)

Distance gluing travels is s=0.89x10e-15m

s/C=t

t=0.3x10e-23s

Impulse P=Fxt=10e4x0.3x10e-23=0.3x10e-19

N- number of impulse per second

N=E binding / P

N=3x10e13/0.3x10e-19

N=10e7

This is the number of impulses per second where gluon is transferring energy (strong interaction ) between proton and neutron .

For this ,the gluons have to travel in between and on the outside of protons and neutron .

The impulses from outside will be bigger than impulse form within.

That is how strong force is crated.

And gravity

For first scenario of liquid drop model 10e68 of deuterium only gluon actin on the nucleuses at the outside (on the surface e of half bubble ) will create gravitational force .

The fluids “inside the galaxy “ will neutralize each other - the resistant force will be zero

And

Massless particles, like photons, can indeed transfer momentum through an impulse, even though they have no mass. This is because their energy and momentum are related by E = pc, where E is energy, p is momentum, and c is the speed of light. The impulse imparted by a massless particle is the change in momentum of the object it interacts with. 

If I understand you correctly ( posting style and language make understanding difficult ), you are implying that gluon 'pressure' pushes quarks together inside nucleons, and that same gluon 'pressure' pushes galaxies together, making the color interaction the same as gravity and the gluon equivalent to the graviton.

However ...
A neutron is composed of two down quarks ( 2 x -1/3 ) and one up quark ( +2/3 ) while a proton is composed of two up quarks ( 2 x +2/3 ) and one down quark ( -1/3 ) to account for the uncharged neutron and the +1 charged proton.
QCD holds that gluons are subject to the color interaction, and since quarks come in three colors, and anti-quarks come in three types of anti-color, to distinguish between all the differing quark/anti-quark species, gluons have to carry nine different combinations of color/anti-color.
But because we don't observe neutrons and protons to be in any of these color states, they are in a color singlet state, which allows interaction among neutrons and protons, but not with any other color states. IOW, Protons interact with neutrons but not with quarks or gluons, so that of the nine 'effective states' there are only eight 'actual' states, and the singlet color state does not exist.

These eight color states, being independent, help distinguish/group the various combinations of quark flavors that make up protons, neutrons, mesons, etc.

So, please tell us what mechanism in your theory ( ? ) distinguishes between the various quarks to form composite particles like protons and neutrons.
More precisely, how does 'gluon/graviton pressure' in your so called theory distinguish between an up quark and a down quark ???

MigL

First :

from the bottom of my heart thank you and the other guys for finding time to look ,read ,try to understand and comment.

Second :

BIG YES

you got it.

I wish I had heard about this gluon things a decade or more ago.

The gluons do not recognize the type of quark- they create - or better they decide what type of quark is involved in system .

The gluon is massless particle which travels the universe in big numbers in big thick loop like trajectories .

The diameter of these loops is 10e26m

The direction of rotation of these loops could be CW or CCW .

The quark is chunk of baryonic matter - like elastic” blob”.

It is not up,or down or any of 8 flavours .

It is just a blob.

The gluon stream loop , traveling at CW or CW direction, will decide what quark flavour is quark going to be.

Here is very rough picture - it shows three gluon streams :

Blue

Green

Red

Blue and green loops are traveling for example in CW direction .

The red loop is turning in CCW direction .

Green and blue loop are traveling upwards inside the proton .

The red loop is traveling in down words (opposite ) direction .

This direction of movement of the gluon loop

Decides is the quark going to be up or down.

Inside the proton - each loop wraps around single quark (blob) .

The wrap direction can be in CW or CCW direction .

This decides what spin the quark will have .

In neutron the direction of loops will be opposite .

This is the simple explanation of quark gluon interaction

The massless gluon interaction by 10 e7 impulses per second with baryonic blob ,creating the strong force and not only strong force but gravitational force too, this is the most important point of this idea .

This is a connection between gravity and strong force - they do not have the same nature ,they are the same force.

To paint closer picture :

Here is again very rough drawing.

This rough drawing us shown in 2D.The quarks are shown as a sphere just for explanation - they are more like “spindle” shaped.

Single gluon travels around single quark in 3D, so impulses transfer momentum from all sides XYZ ,360 degrees around.

When two gluons travel on opposite directions - one up and one down- the impulses in area between gluons are transferring momentum (by impulses ) nit only on the quarks .

They transfer impulse between themselves- and the energy of massless gluons in area between gluon has a smaller force “ pushing out” than the gluons “ pushing in”.

Fir proton neutron - the six gluons are involved - the N= 10e27 impulses creating strong force are the difference between number of impulses (for six gluons) which are “ pushing in “ from outside and impulses of the same 6 gluons “pushing out” from area in between quarks.

That is strong force .

Th et e is 10e 68 proton neutron pairs in galaxy - the same pushing in and out difference in number of impulses will create gravitational force .

Only difference will be the distance between two galaxies.

Fir the liquid drop model of visible universe from above this is obvious.Becouse that is static perfect 2D picture .

In real life- galaxies are made of different number of different atoms, molecules .

They come in different shapes and sizes - and most importantly they MOVE.

That is the reason why the gravitational force is acting from center if the mass.

Speculation requires more than rough drawing and made-up numbers.