If we are being honest we are all currently agnostics

[Nevets]

I personally am an ex christian turned agnostic. I became an agnostic after studying and researching the history of The Speculative Society. I came to understand that it does not matter what we believe, and it is not something we need to argue about. In fact, what we believe does not even need to be spoken about. It can be our own little 33rd degree secret if we wish. Of course, it also does not need to be a taboo subject, and of course, it can be discussed if we so wish. However, for me, agnosticism is ultimately about admitting that I do not know either way whether there is a God or not, so therefore I am not involved in the argument between believers and atheists, as I am neither a believer nor non believer, and for the most part, it is not a subject I pay much attention to, beyond occasionally perhaps posting a thread such as this one. 

Quote

In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist. In so far as one holds that our beliefs are rational only if they are sufficiently supported by human reason, the person who accepts the philosophical position of agnosticism will hold that neither the belief that God exists nor the belief that God does not exist is rational. In the modern period, agnostics have appealed largely to the philosophies of Hume and Kant as providing the justification for agnosticism as a philosophical position.

Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy

However, I would go so far as to say that I am not the only person on this website that is agnostic. In fact, I would go as far as to say that almost everyone in the world is agnostic if they are being perfectly honest with themselves and others, as nobody really knows for sure whether or not there is a God, or no God.

I personally also only use the word God because that is the favoured expression. I actually prefer to use intelligent designer.

Feel free to disagree with this if you so wish.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Nevets

[John Cuthber]

I'm agnostic about God the same way that I'm agnostic about unicorns, hobbits and Zeus.
Is that what you had in mind?

It does, in fact, natter what we believe.

Edited September 17, 2023 by John Cuthber

[iNow]

6 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm agnostic about God the same way that I'm agnostic about unicorns, hobbits and Zeus.

I would add the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and Link from Zelda to this list.

22 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I personally am an ex christian turned agnostic.

One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist, but calling oneself merely agnostic misuses the term. Agnosticism is about knowledge. (A)theism is about belief. We all believe or don’t believe, and agnosticism supplements those labels, but cannot replace them. 
 

Edited September 17, 2023 by iNow

[Nevets]

17 minutes ago, iNow said:

I would add the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and Link from Zelda to this list.

One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist, but calling oneself merely agnostic misuses the term. Agnosticism is about knowledge. (A)theism is about belief. We all believe or don’t believe, and agnosticism supplements those labels, but cannot replace them. 
 

You might actually be wrong about this.

Quote

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable

Merriam Webster Dictionary

It would appear more likely that the terms Agnostic Atheist, or, Agnostic Theist, are the pseudo terms.

[TheVat]

28 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I personally also only use the word God because that is the favoured expression. I actually prefer to use intelligent designer.

Selection of terms often indicates how one leans in one's beliefs.  Intelligent designer has specific implications about what one believes a god would be if there were such a being.  Some beliefs don't see a god as an engineer, but rather as some vast mind that just passively exists and watches.  Or is just a summation of all conscious life in the universe.  Just saying, while you may state you have no beliefs on the matter, you have selected a preferred term that suggests what you would believe.

[Nevets]

2 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Selection of terms often indicates how one leans in one's beliefs.  Intelligent designer has specific implications about what one believes a god would be if there were such a being.  Some beliefs don't see a god as an engineer, but rather as some vast mind that just passively exists and watches.  Or is just a summation of all conscious life in the universe.  Just saying, while you may state you have no beliefs on the matter, you have selected a preferred term that suggests what you would believe.

I prefer intelligent designer because it emcompasses a larger surround. Nothing more to it than that.

[TheVat]

8 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I prefer intelligent designer because it emcompasses a larger surround. Nothing more to it than that.

There appears to be more to it, when anyone adds "designer."

By adding that specific role, it appears you are positing that a hypothetical deity designed the universe.  

How does that square with the claim to have no beliefs, and the claim that ultimate reality is unknowable?  

Just trying to sharpen the thinking on how we label things.

[Nevets]

6 minutes ago, TheVat said:

There appears to be more to it, when anyone adds "designer."

By adding that specific role, it appears you are positing that a hypothetical deity designed the universe.  

How does that square with the claim to have no beliefs, and the claim that ultimate reality is unknowable?  

Just trying to sharpen the thinking on how we label things.

I can use the term intelligent designer without believing in either an intelligent designer or disbelieving. Just like I can use the term Satan, without believing or disbelieving in this entity. We can use words available to us in the English dictionary without having any type of belief regarding them.

I personally view abiogenesis and intelligent design to be equally impossible. But they are the only two options we have. Therefore I neither believe nor disbelieve, as what I believe is not important anyway.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Nevets

[TheVat]

Just now, Nevets said:

I can use the term intelligent designer without believing in either an intelligent designer or disbelieving. Just like I can use the term Satan, without believing or disbelieving in this entity. We can use words available to us in the English dictionary without having any type of belief regarding them.

Then why not save typing and just use "god"?  If you have no belief, then it's a handy term for a deity.  

Again, choosing a term with specific implications is what people do when they harbor specific ideas.  Intelligent designer implies a being with intelligence and engineering skills that are applied.  You can't really avoid implications when you use language.

[Nevets]

6 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Then why not save typing and just use "god"?  If you have no belief, then it's a handy term for a deity.  

Again, choosing a term with specific implications is what people do when they harbor specific ideas.  Intelligent designer implies a being with intelligence and engineering skills that are applied.  You can't really avoid implications when you use language.

Who says that intelligent designer implies a being? It could imply AI technology! Though, yes, it could also imply a being. But then which God are you referring to? Yahweh? Elohim? Allah? In the religious and non religious argument, there are more than one God involved.

I feel that to use the term God would be limiting myself to a limited possibility.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Nevets

[studiot]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist, but calling oneself merely agnostic misuses the term. Agnosticism is about knowledge. (A)theism is about belief. We all believe or don’t believe, and agnosticism supplements those labels, but cannot replace them. 

Although you don't need the points +1 for the two dimensional categorisation.

Reminds me of the 2D square currently in use by the LBGTetc community.

But also begs the question "Why only two category variables ?"

 

I ask because I like to place myself on another axis, which I call the don't care axis.

[iNow]

7 hours ago, studiot said:

Although you don't need the points +1 

We can all use an attaboy every once in a while. Appreciate the appreciation ✌

7 hours ago, studiot said:

I ask because I like to place myself on another axis, which I call the don't care axis.

Apathy plus theism equals apatheist. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

Although, if we’re managing our categories properly, then if you’re not*theist then you’re literally a*theist… aka: atheist. 

I don’t care about stamp collecting either, but I’m still just “not a stamp collector.” There’s no special separate word for me just bc I don’t care about it.

 

8 hours ago, Nevets said:

You might actually be wrong about this.

Perhaps, but in my experience usually people who call themselves agnostic merely lack the courage of their convictions. They tend to be afraid of facing potential social consequences and fear the risk of ostracization from their tribe, all due to them just authentically acknowledging their lack of belief… aka being open about their atheism in public. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by iNow