James Daviscourt Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Hi everyone! I would appreciate any knowledge you have to offer on this topic~ I am making a board game for my friends to play, and I need a way to hide symbols on spaces of the board---something completely invisible that can be revealed with some tool/anything when triggered. My optimum solution would be some type of lens that reveals the symbol when held over it, and the symbols are completely invisible to the naked eye, but don't let that stop anyone from proposing any other idea they have that could accomplish this! Also, it needs to be a long term method that would last indefinitely, and not become less effective after a few uses (basically permanent). I've looked into linear polarizing film: https://makezine.com/projects/spy-tech-polarized-hidden-messages/ and color filters/reveal messages: http://photonicswiki.org/index.php?title=Basic_Optics_-_Outreach_Kit#Color_filters ...but unless I'm misunderstanding things the former would require three sheets and wouldn't work on the large scale of a whole board, and the latter doesn't render the symbol truly invisible to the naked eye until the filter is used. But I could also be mistaken about how they could be correctly used, and you are all much smarter than me, haha~ Thank you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumT Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 If it has to be fancy.... https://www.thoughtco.com/what-glows-under-a-black-light-607615 If less can do it, go old school and just use cardboard with the printed/written side turned down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 48 minutes ago, James Daviscourt said: truly invisible to the naked eye I remember the game Brainstorm had red glasses so that one player at a time could read hidden messages on cards. Not truly invisible to the naked eye but maybe good enough for a board game? The cards have red/white random patterns and I think cyan coloured messages. The cyan coloured messages will look black through the red glasses and the red/white will look red. A sample in Photoshop might be*: For a person wearing red glasses the picture above would look something like the below. I've used a photoshop filter to test the effect, I haven't any red glasses/filters nearby. *) I used a modified version of the sample available at http://photonicswiki.org/index.php?title=How_to_make_a_red_reveal_message 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Daviscourt Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) Hey Quantum T, thank you for these ideas! (and everyone else who answers too--every idea is a useful solution, nothing is too crazy, and anything could end up being that best fit for my query) Haha, yes Quantum, I wish old school could have done it! I loved the replayability from randomly placing face down symbol tiles, but as there are only four unique symbols I ran into a problem with too many similar symbols clustering on the board--as well as the long set up time, and messiness of accidentally pushed around tiles. Using an ultraviolet light reflecting ink is an interesting concept, with some sort of way to focus the light (I imagine one of those small flashlights or laser pointers) on just one space and not accidentally reveal surrounding spaces--maybe a box with the dimensions of the space, so you can shine the light in through the top and not have it bleed out to surrounding spaces. Some possible issues I see with this solution are how easy/hard it is to print in ultraviolet reflecting ink, or if including a non-standard piece of technology the game is unplayable without (like UV flashlight that could break, or run out of power) is possible on a large scale. What do you think? If the game turns out well, I'd love to see about if it could someday be published--so I'm also trying to build it with that in the back of my mind! And if it doesn't, then my friends will have fun and that is more than worth it enough! I love the options! Wow there are already more ideas too--I'll check those out next! 2 hours ago, Ghideon said: I remember the game Brainstorm had red glasses so that one player at a time could read hidden messages on cards. Not truly invisible to the naked eye but maybe good enough for a board game? Hey Gideon! Wow, thank you for super in depth pictures and a specific board game example! Does anyone know if there is a more advanced form of this, where there is so much density to the "color camouflage" that the color filter revealed symbol would be truly undecipherable without the filter revealer? I only have four very identifiable symbols, so it might be too easy for a player to determine what's in the next space when they aren't supposed to know. Or any other ingenious solutions! I am open to all~ Edited March 5, 2019 by James Daviscourt Does anyone know how to prevent merging replies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 hours ago, James Daviscourt said: Or any other I couldn't resist another attempt... how about writing symbols on the back of paper and use back-light? Could work with the right combination of paper thickness, light and ink. Quick experiment, using office paper, ball pen and flashlight from behind paper. Flashlight off: Flashlight on: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Daviscourt Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 11 hours ago, Ghideon said: I couldn't resist another attempt... how about writing symbols on the back of paper and use back-light? Could work with the right combination of paper thickness, light and ink. Wow Ghideon, that is a really ingenious, and easy to execute idea!! If a similar method to focus the light as the blacklight concept was used to prevent light bleed from revealing surrounding spaces, that could work! I'll play around with it for a bit~ Some potential issues I see are similar to the blacklight concept--with requiring some extra tech for a light source. Maybe if there were something elevating the page natural light could work? But that could reveal everything, and might not work at night with weaker artificial light sources in a room. Perhaps if it was elevated a flashlight could shine through the front to reveal spaces, with the same method to focus it as the blacklight so there is no light bleed--then it wouldn't be hard to target specific spaces either, which lining up a light behind the page could have been. I'll think on it for a bit! Any other out there ideas for revealing hidden symbols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 3/5/2019 at 4:31 AM, Ghideon said: I couldn't resist another attempt... how about writing symbols on the back of paper and use back-light? Could work with the right combination of paper thickness, light and ink. There are probably inks or other substances which would match the color of the paper, but would block transmission of light, e.g. white crayon on white paper. White-ink (and/or pens using it) might be available at an art supply store. That makes it harder to cheat (or accidentally gain information) by looking at the back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 6 hours ago, swansont said: That makes it harder to cheat (or accidentally gain information) by looking at the back. Good points! I couldn't find white crayons around my desk so I used an old envelope and a separate paper. This also makes it possible to change where symbols are located. And I didn't have to draw the symbols mirrored: Put the paper in envelope and use flashlight from behind the envelope: I may have a few other ideas; @James Daviscourt Can you give som hints about the game? I mean, if the symbols are static then they will all be known once you have played the game once? There must be some dynamics; separate tiles or that the symbols are not attached permanently to a location on the board? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterwlocke Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 you could do hidden patterns but it isn't invisible cryptograms or stylize it but hide things in it like Stan Lee(rip). but the polarizing lens is a good idea. slightly raised things that you have to put a paper on top then rub with a pencil. maybe something that reacts to electricity or reacts to light waves. maybe microwave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Daviscourt Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 18 hours ago, swansont said: There are probably inks or other substances which would match the color of the paper, but would block transmission of light, e.g. white crayon on white paper. White-ink (and/or pens using it) might be available at an art supply store. Nice Swansont! That is one way to solve for a potential accidental cheating issue I hadn't even thought of with the backlit method! Thank you, and everyone for brainstorming these great ideas! 11 hours ago, Ghideon said: I couldn't find white crayons around my desk so I used an old envelope and a separate paper. This also makes it possible to change where symbols are located. And I didn't have to draw the symbols mirrored: Ooooh, Ghideon that's another interesting idea that addresses Swansont's foreseen issue above! I think it has a lot of advantages too, because it allows for the grid to be printed just once on a separate envelope-like cover, and for each rune sheet inserted into the envelope to just be runes (saves a ton of ink if there are multiple rune sheets for replayability)! If anyone has some different ideas on ways to focus the light (and not reveal more than one space at a time) besides the box method above, no matter how out there, shout it out! For sure @Ghideon, when I get up for work in the morning I'll let you know what my current imperfect solution is and maybe that will spark some more ideas! Yes, I have separated the rune events and the board to allow for each game to have the runes in different places ;-) 11 hours ago, peterwlocke said: ...slightly raised things that you have to put a paper on top then rub with a pencil. Thinking outside the box @peterwlocke! The pencil rub over low relief symbols feels very Indiana Jones, very cool! Currently my game has multiple rune "plates", separate from the board--so each game can use a different plate and play differently (for replayability). It would be pretty labor intensive on my end to make one such plate low relief for the pencil rub method, and if the game did someday get picked up (everyone's dream, haha) I imagine it would be very expensive for a manufacturer to make the several molds required for multiple low relief plates (I've heard it is around 25,000$ per unique die cast a manufacturer has to make for a game, so it's best to use very standard pieces and sizes). Hmmmm, what could be some solutions to this? Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Recently played this game which uses the technique described by Ghideon to reveal the results of blood tests to check if your character is hosting an alien. Might be worth checking out how others have executed this (it's a pretty good game too). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterwlocke Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, James Daviscourt said: Thinking outside the box @peterwlocke! The pencil rub over low relief symbols feels very Indiana Jones, very cool! I was thinking of the scene in Indiana Jones. and Sherlock homes. you could draw in a notebook/ note pad with some force like in sherlock holmes. prob some others too. Edited March 7, 2019 by peterwlocke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 14 hours ago, James Daviscourt said: If anyone has some different ideas on ways to focus the light and On 3/6/2019 at 7:20 PM, peterwlocke said: raised things resulted in new ideas. Idea 1: "rune stones" raised and attached by using holders. Using paperclip, "rune stone" and a tile from Settlers, without and with a light source. But it may still be possible to reveal runes by mistake. Idea 2: Try without a light at all, very low tech Rune cards and no light. Turn card to reveal the rune to the black player Another low tech idea; "pressure sensitive" runes. These are probably too sensitive to wear and tear. Using two or more layers of semi transparent paper (baking paper): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterwlocke Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 fiber optics and shining off mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Daviscourt Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Alright @Ghideon, here is my current solution for anyone curious: Goals: -completely hide symbols -eliminate large set up time -promote replayability by having different symbol placement each game Right now I have the main board, and a separate "mini-map" to scale with the exact same spaces/zone set up. The mini-map consists of an advent calendar-like sheet of tabs ( l_l <-- cut outs this shape, so they can fold up to reveal runes) that cover an interchangeable series of rune boards (you can switch them out so each game is different). So if player enters space A5, the flip tab A5 on the mini map to reveal what rune triggers. Issues: -Even though I used a plastic thicker paper, the tabs wear over time--they don't close all the way anymore. Also, I could easily see tabs breaking over time, which makes the cover useless. -I can't see manufacturers printing more than a handful of rune boards--so eventually people will start recognizing certain layouts -The advent calendar-like cover seems like it would be a pretty complex piece to manufacture (but for now it's a game just for friends, so still enjoyable ;-) ) So that is where I'm at. Hopefully this sparks some else's creative solutions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 If you have runic symbols i'm thinking the theme of the game is fantasy? Maybe tomb raider theme? You'll want your reveal to be consistent with that theme - having 'hi-tech' reveals worked in Nemesis because it was a sci-fi game revealing some blood results. Simplest solution solution would be to have a deck that is shuffled and dealt onto the board spaces at set-up. Is there a reason this isn't possible/desirable? Many games have a similar mechanic and so gamers will be familiar with it. Other common methods for revealing secrets are drawing from a bag, having one player start with the knowledge (asymmetric games are very hard to balance though), dealing cards to the players themselves facedown at set-up... i'm sure there are more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterwlocke Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) litmus. also some computer stuff/print sheets Edited March 8, 2019 by peterwlocke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now