Bettina

So, when I push that button, another girl is standing there but its not me. She's wearing my clothes too....

Mr. Luke and I are going to have a talk tommorrow for sure.

Bettina

I had a talk with my biology teacher today after class, and showed him what you guys wrote. I even pointed out the part where he was described. He looked at it awhile, laughed, and said "They called me a nut case?".

I'm getting confused now. He did a lot of talking about things I didn't understand fully, so I'm not going to pick sides because my teacher now knows about this place. Hello Mr. Luke.

His point of view hasn't changed because of the criteria I put in place to begin with. He says that the only difference is father10 marrying the sister of mother10 instead of mother10 herself. Everyone still has the same amount of children meaning that my "father" would still have married my mother who would only produce one daughter. Nobody dies.

He says according to my rules, my mother cannot change and neither can her egg. Only the sperm changed because I now have a different father than I would have had. Her egg is the same one that produced me according to my rules.

Since I was conceived at the same time, same day, with the same mother, and the same egg, he says that #2 is still a possibility.

Go easy in case he's listening.....

Bettina

Thanks for the book link.

I bought Flatland, Sphereland, Spaceland, and Geometry.

(Actually it was dads credit card)

I still have a hard time with the flat universe concept even though WMAP is now leaning toward it. Geez, it was only a year and a half ago that the sphere was still valid. I'm going to learn more about this.

Bettina

']Well' date=' the universe did not inflate to its current size in a few nano seconds. In a brief time after the big bang, it did inflate extremely quickly, however this soon slowed down to the speed of inflation we have today. The universe has had at least 13 billions years to expand, and has been expanding continuously for all of that time.

 

I'm not sure how valid your analogy is about the christmas ornament, at least as it pertains to the shape of the universe. That would be a good analogy for explaining how it is the universe expands, all points getting further away from eachother, none getting closer to eachother. For the curvature of the universe I think you'd have to look at it differently, althought im not sure about this.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe#Shape_of_the_Universe

 

It mentions a sphere like yours in that paragraph, so perhaps your analogy is correct for this point.

 

You other people need to read my original post in this topic, there is a lot of confusion on what this is. Remember- calling the universe flat, or like the surface of a sphere, or whatever are results of thinking of the universe in 4 dimensions, which we cannot properly visualize. These should not be taken too literally.[/quote']

 

When I say nanoseconds, I pretty much meant that 90% of its size was created almost instantly. The soap bubble I mentioned, has to be viewed as a spherical shape without a center. The universe is expanding into nothing, but its only the sphere's edges that are moving outward. There is nothing inside of the sphere.

 

Forget the Christmas ornament....I like the soap bubble better.

 

Imagine the soap bubble the size of a basketball floating still in the air. Now imagine that it was nighttime, and the soapy solution forming this bubble was a faint glowing neon blue. A faint neon sphere.

 

If you could walk up to this bubble without breaking it, walk around it and look closely, you would see many swirls and designs on the outside of this sphere which would represent our galaxies. Yet nothing but blackness would be inside and outside of the bubble. This black represents the nothing that our universe came from.

 

If you walked up to it and looked even closer, you would see that between these many swirls and designs around the circumference there would be plain areas with no swirls. Since these areas of the bubble are thinner than the parts making up the swirls, it is much lighter and fainter. To me this would represent the dark matter that we cannot see. This dark matter is also expanding.

 

If you could add an air source and begin adding air to the inside of the bubble, it would grow larger, but the center nothing would get larger too. The event horizon or outside edge of this bubble would move outwards and the swirls would move farther away from each other.

 

To get from one side of the bubble to the other, you would have to travel its circumference. You cannot go thru the center. Just place a magical car on the surface of the bubble and drive around the outside. Like you do on earth.

 

The pancake universe doesn't cut if for me. I just don't see a big bang creating something flat like that. And, I do believe the big bang had a center at one time with the bubble radiating outward at a pretty uniform rate.

 

I really look at all the links that you guys give me....thanks for that.

Again, I'm still learning, but its hard to find which is the best model to stick with.

 

Bettina

how could the big bang form a flat universe?

 

-so your saying that every galaxy in the universe is on the 'edge' of the universe? If so' date=' why is there no matter in the middle of the 'christmas ball'?

 

if the universe is expanding, that means there would have to be matter in the middle of the 'christmas ball' or else that means that when it expands it also decreases because the center contains nothing... please explain how this is possible

 

if this post is to confusing, tell me, and ill rephrase it.[/quote']

 

Like I said, I'm still learning, but there is so much conflicting input, I go with one theory until its proven wrong.

 

The christmas ball could just as well be a large soap bubble that you blew thru a hoop when you were little. The ball is round, but if you look at the surface you can see "designs" and swirls on the outside. Nothing on the inside. This is what our universe is. I wish I could explain myself better.

 

I believe in the big bang...just one, where all matter radiated out on a single plane curving around itself. Wasn't it said that if you travel long enough thru space, you will end up back where you started? I think that was it. I'm typing now without looking anything up.

 

Again, Im still learning, and I don't believe in the flat universe as if it was a pancake...I also dont believe in string theory or branes either.

 

Bettina

Ok....I'm still learning, but this is what I've learned so far. I know this is going off topic, but it still is related to the original question.

Picture a Christmas tree ball that is round, thin and hollow. On the outside of the ball, take a small brush and paint galaxies, stars, planets, everything you see in the night sky, etc.

Now looking at that ball, that is our universe. Nothing exists in the space outside of the surface of the ball, and nothing exists inside the ball. Nothing means just that. Nothing. No time, no matter, no space. You cannot go from one end of the ball to the other by passing thru the middle because there is nothing there.

I was also told that the universe went from a pinpoint that appeared out of nothing, and inflated to the size it is today in a few nanoseconds. Much faster than the speed of light since light came after the initial inflation.

The flat universe implies a sheet of paper instead of a ball, but all the rules still apply.

I think this is correct

Bettina

Do you believe in god? I ask because if you believe in god then anything is possible' date=' and my comments based on knowledge and science are worthless.

 

If you are asking from a scientific perspective, then there is absolutely no question at all. You biology teacher is a nut case. If your father and your mother conceived with a different egg and sperm, then you would not be the same soul in a completely different body.

 

If you are asking from a religious perspective, go talk to your priest. If you are asking about science, then there is no question at all. What a nut case your biology teacher is. Shame on your teacher.[/quote']

 

Hehe....I don't blame you for saying that given you don't know him. He is really an excellent teacher, but if, after class, you take him aside to ask him a wayout question, he will offer a way out answer that isn't in the books. It's more his personal feelings and he told me that up front. He never said that as fact.

 

Secondly, no....I don't believe in the God of the bible. Not at all, but I do believe that life after death is very possible.

 

Thirdly..... I know what your thinking.....and no...I'm not a nut case too.

 

Bettina

Hmmm....

I showed this thread to my biology teacher who told me that #2, though highly unlikely, is still possible. I would look different, I may even be a boy, but the "soul" peering out of the person in front of the mirror, could still be me. A different me, but still me. Now I'm wondering all over again.

Bettina

and saw electric clams! I never saw, or even heard of such a species of clam! It was a rapid flicker of blue electricity streaming inside the clams shell. Amazing!

Hmmm...... I wonder if it was a blue LED strobe.

Whew' date=' ok I'm done.

[/quote']

I hope your not done. Your reply made me draw pictures in my mind much like my science teacher does. It was a great reply.

 

I think 5614, by stating "direct evidence" was saying the same thing in a much shorter version.

 

Thanks very much

Bettina

 

One more thing. Why did there have to be anything before the big bang. Why couldn't there have been just nothing and we just appeared much like a quark.

[url']http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/[/url]

Blike.....Tsk Tsk Tsk....

"The march to war hurt economy. Laura reminded me a while ago that remember what was on the TV screens — she calls me, 'George W.' — 'George W.' I call her, 'First Lady.' No, anyway — she said, we said, march to war on our TV screen." —George W. Bush, Bay Shore, New York, Mar. 11, 2004

If it's ok for my president....it's ok for me.

Bettina

I believe that deja vu is very simple, our brain interprets things not as wholes but as certain emphasized events of observations, like in a song you may only remember parts yuo really like or when yuo see somthing yuo may only remember colours or locations not it all in a perfect scene. So whne we remember things with only few simple things our brain if it see the same set of things it would think you have deja vu not because its the exactly the same situation but close dependent on those very emphasized points that in a similar situation could be remphasized to give the appearence of deja vu.

That happens to me a lot. An example happened to me two years ago when my dad and I went to visit a friend of his in the next town. When we got to the towns center, I instantly recognized the feeling you describe. I gazed at the buildings and knew I was here before. I even pointed out a particular rotary with a white building in the rear. My dad said no. I was never here.

Then about a year later, I was in a store at the mall in my town, and was stunned when I saw that exact scene on a postcard called "Our Town". I go to that mall all the time, so I may have glanced at that card at one time, and my brain remembered it and assumed I was really there. It was right out of a Stephen King book....creepy.....and yes my friends tried to scare the heck out of me with that. They won.

Bettina

Then it's #3....

I face the mirror, push the button, and in that moment I cease to exist.

Another girl is there now.

Bettina

Why do you think think your father would have had a daughter? Since the sex of the child is determined by the male' date=' and since a hole different group of sperm have been swimming for the egg, how would you know that one bearing an xx chromosome would fertilize it, rather than one bearing an xy chromosome?

 

Pregnancy might not have happened at all - the particular egg that was released might not have been impregnated. If it was, there might have been a miscarriage.[/quote']

 

He had to have a daughter because of the criteria I put in place for my scenario. No other changes would be allowed.

 

Here I am, his daughter. I go back in time 5 or 9 hundred years and see HIS father10 marry one of two sisters. He married sister01. I have a magic button, that when pushed, he marries sister02 instead. They are not twins.

 

Then without changing the rules, everyone else marries who they were originally going to, and have the same amount of kids, same gender.

 

I'm not allowing any changes to occur except the one I made.

 

Now, I'm back in my time, holding the magic button in my hand. I stand in front of my mirror, and push the button. (I love pushing buttons )

 

My father would still have ended up with a daughter. My mother still would have left me. But what would I see when I push that button. Would I:

 

(remember my rules)

 

1. Still be me, look the same, and remember what the button was for.

2. Still be me, look different, and wonder what the button was for.

3. "Someone" is looking in the mirror, sees the button, shrugs her shoulders, and throws it on the dresser.......Who I was is gone.

 

I want to know how close Gnieus is to being correct.

 

Bettina

No. If you were to change even the time your parents conceived you by one month, a different egg would be fertilized, and the you that exists today would be different.

That's what I wanted to know. With all the generations I mentioned, and the scenario I presented, I would still be here, but a different person knowing nothing about the one I am now. My father would have still had a daughter, but it wouldn't be me. Is that correct?

Bettina

P.S. The chain scenario didnt work for me because it implies that someone was killed. I just wanted to exchange one of the links to a different one and see if the bottom link changed.

If either of your parents had died before you were born' date=' then you would not have been born. Any number of other changes in their relationship could have prevented you from being born. Therefore, your parents is the nearest generation that you might look at. Identical types of changes in either of their parents could have prevented them from being born, which would in turn have prevented your birth. Your parents had parents, who had parents, changes to whom could have prevented you being born. Perhaps you could trace this scenario back as far as the beginning of life on earth, which if it had not started you would not have been born.

 

Does this answer your question? If not, then you might consider rephrasing your question more clearly.[/quote']

 

I'll try.

 

If I could stop time, and reverse it, I would see my fathers father, then his fathers father, etc etc. When I reach father10, I make father10 marry the sister of the girl he originally married.

 

I start time again, and watch it progress. Each family had the same amount of children. Nothing changes in quantity and gender.

 

When I come into existence, would I be me as I am now?

 

I'm not being funny here. I really would like to know.

 

Bettina

 

P.S. Newtonian.....I don't get what you mean.

I still need an answer to this. How far back can I really go. How many generations.

Bettina

I tried to search for this question, but didn't have any luck.

How far back in my family tree do I have to go where a change would have kept me from being born. For example, someone got killed.

Bettina

Mine is me....

Bettina

I go with no. Laws should apply to all companies, private or held. If the person can do the job and do it well, he should not be turned down because of his race. This kind of thing keeps discrimination alive, and it should be dead. I also would like to hear blikes reasoning.

who else pmed you?

I never kiss and tell....actually I've never really kissed yet.

Bettina

For my 17th Birthday email and PM's This was my first ever BB Bday email. It meant a lot to me.

Tonight I'm going out with Dad and his friend for supper, then some clothes shopping with the two of them and some of my friends.

Sunday, I got a BIG gift certificate from the senior home where I sing. I was shocked....I really didn't expect that since I told them from the start that I wouldn't accept any money from them. My choir friends got certificates too.

So, we went to the mall that night, and I got "SIMS2" for starters.

I feel good

Bettina

I want to play a character...but I have to be good.

Bettina

Geez.....

You guys are too cold.

All you need is true love between a man and a women. Everything else is attainable.

Bettina

Someone told me that the reason the moon looked larger when low on the horizon was because of the warm air, smog, and pollutants. He said when combined, they produced one big magnifying effect.

This made some sense to me especially that it doesn’t happen during winter months.

Bettina