Moontanman

Ok, my typo here I meant to say one of the three things not all of them... my apologies i object due to the big lie that the money collected by religion goes to help people, the vast majority of it goes to religion, not helping anyone. As far as missionary work while you obviously think it's a good thing to go and try to change a culture to fit what you think is right and wrong I think it's a bad thing, destroying someone else's culture in the name of a non existent god cannot be good... Why should you be able to annoy the shit out of me in public? Why shouldn't your crass disrespect for me and every one who doesn't agree with you be all over the radio, TV, magazines, bill boards, and knocking on my front door every Friday morning? If you have to ask that question i see no chance you would understand the answer. As for what you do in church, i could not possibly care less, blow Sunshine up each others skirt and tell your selves what wonderful people you are because god loves you? Beat each other with sticks, pretend to speak in tongues , roll on the floor in a spastic fit for the greater glory of god? drink poison? (go for it) Kill rattle snakes slowly by keeping them cold and denying them water and food? (this i do think is wrong, snakes are living creatures and should not be tortured to death) Hold orgies of self fulfilling prophecy, I really don't care but keep it out of my face! So atheists regularly preach from street corners where you live? TV and radio is swamped with adds begging you for money to help the atheist cause? Bill boards proselytize from every intersection? Atheists knock on your door Friday morning to ask you to reject god? bullshit.....

You have absolutely no evidence of intelegent aliens much less aliens writing hamlet. I never claimed that having the correct ingredients and circumstances for life will produce intelligent life. As a matter of fact i happen to be a member of the "Rare Earth" school of thought, life is common, i expect life to be found in our solar system on at least 4 different planets/moons. Intelligent life is another matter altogether. The idea that intelligent life means they write hamlet is just silly severian.... The contention here was life vs god, we have a planet full of life but no evidence of god. this i have to admit does not prove there is no God but it shows we have evidence of life and lots of circumstantial evidence that life might exist on other planets but life does not = intelligence nor does intelligence = hamlet. Now please stop putting words in my mouth severian....

So if a method of propulsion isn't explainable by us it must either be bullshit or violate the laws of physics? 300 years ago a Frisbee would have been inexplicable by the common man who observed it and without realistic understanding would have been assumed a violation of the laws of the universe. I see no reason to assume an unknown means of propulsion violates these laws because we don't know how it works. The real problem here is that even if you just go with inexplicable sightings of UFOs there is still no reason to assume things like anti gravity or some other violation of physics, some do indeed do inexplicable things but a helicopter would have quite inexplicable to science 200 years ago if for no other reason no power source was available to run it. Most of this is not even fringe science... And of course helicopters, airplanes, hover craft, and the things that uses electricity to hover a small platform. Just because we don't understand how it's done doesn't make it impossible. Just because it's quiet or seems to use huge amounts of energy doesn't make it impossible...

Evolution has meaning beyond that which we assign to it in regard to life. Stars evolve, the evolution of stars is a known quantity, planets evolve, anything that changes evolves. Decent is exactly what I am saying happened, organic chemicals over time became more complex due to processes that produced more and more complex chemicals due to selection that favored more complex chemicals. With out the sources of the organic chemicals this could never have happened, without the catalysts in competition with each other for these resources this could never have happened. The two processes driven toward complexity by this competition for resources resulted in life. My assertion is that under the circumstances of abundant energy, abundant organic chemicals and catalysts that competed with each other for resources natural selection resulted in life....

I can think of several things that a human proboscis would be useful for, sadly none if them can be discussed on this forum....

Over and over we hear that evolution is not part of abiogenesis, that evolution via natural selection did not start until life had already formed. This leads to ideas that life is a very low probability occurrence, a figure 10^-41,000 of how unlikely the formation of life was is often bandied about as though it were the truth. I say that life is a natural occurrence driven by natural selection of the organic chemicals that come about naturally in the conditions of the early Earth. These organic chemicals and the action of organic catalysts is what brought about life. Natural selection of the chemicals that contribute to the reactions that bring about more of themselves by acting on other chemicals being produced by various natural reactions. The synergy of catalysts that drive reactions that result in more copies of themselves coupled with the huge influx of reactants provided by a great many mechanisms that imitated metabolisms acted on by these organic catalysts results in reproducing systems of naked metabolisms, the catalysts are the basic precursors to RNA and DNA. RNA and DNA do not, as many have asserted, represent information, they represent catalysts that make better copies of themselves than other catalysts. We see them as information storage due to our own chauvinism not due to any real information content. The cells, from eubacteria to protists to elephants is just catalysts making more complex coverings to insure more copies of themselves. The catalysts that make more copies tend to survive and make more copies, those that did not were over whelmed by the ones who did. RNA and DNA are just very complex catalysts competing to make more copies. The entire process was driven by natural selection, from catalysts floating in the soup of organic chemicals to lipid bubbles full of organic chemicals. The lipid bubbles were a much more concentrated source of chemical "food' for the catalysts, those catalysts that promoted the existence of lipid bubbles tended to be more successful. No magical thinking required, just time and chemicals. Here are some of the sources of organic chemicals these catalysts used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron-sulfur_world_theory http://originoflife.net/crystals/index.html http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071204102500.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/12/021204080856.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100513143457.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071204102500.htm

Can you access wikileaks and find out what they have leaked on various subjects?

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I don't get the date the time or the post number so I don't know which post is post #6, I use SFN but when I switch to SFN Blue it doesn't seem to make a difference. Under my avatar is nothing, no post number no post date in the header and I am using internet explorer..... Under your avatar is Mr. wizard in severians post not in mine...

If I high-lite the screen i get the date and time as well as the label primate under my screen name, but unless i high-lite the whole screen those are hidden from me....

What has happened to the date the thread was first posted? I like to know if I'm answering a zombie thread from 5 years ago. Do i need to change the back ground color to see everything?

Force Fields are real and can be used to protect astronauts from charged particle radiation, as in this idea from NASA... http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/24jun_electrostatics/

You are making an assumption here that is not valid, all UFOs do not do things that are impossible by what we consider to be laws of physics, (the word is debunk by the way) actually not even most can be said to do do things that are impossible by the laws of physics as we under stand them. BTW, i am using the term UFO by the original definition, an technological object that cannot be explained by conventional means, not anything that is seen and unknown to the observer...

Don't wrestle the trolls severian, you both get dirty and the troll likes it.... I have no evidence that unicorns do not exist either but I see no reason to try and dig some up... So all i have to do is think up something that has no evidence it doesn't exist and it has to be believed? Or at least others have to allow for the existence of it so much they will teach it to children in schools as though it was the truth? That's a scary thought. No really, that is very scary... Ok, you do have a point about Daffy Duck it hasn't been long enough since he was made up for his origins to be hidden.... so Thor the Thunder God has to be respected as real? There is circumstantial evidence that alien life exists, we know the laws of chemistry allow it, we know there are places where it could exist, there isn't even any circumstantial evidence for God, in fact his written word contains so many obvious lies it's enough for me to seriously doubt he has any basis in fact at all, more than equal to the positive evidence for alien life.... No not at all, we are discussing this among equals and providing our own thoughts on the subject to be believed or not as you or i will, no pressure at all from me or you as far as i see... I unless you are proselytizing God by being here... I have never met a Christian that didn't participate in the whole deal, either collecting, asserting you should give, or giving, you and I both know this to be true, this is the first really dishonest thing you have said so far...

Powdered coal can explode, we used a system that kept the powdered coal in constant suspension, if it settles out it will not burn, too much dispersal and it explodes, using small gravel sized chunks i think would be best... If you use charcoal it wouldn't really be coal... two completely different things... and charcoal lighter fluid will probably not light coal... it burns too fast and too cool to light up coal... Now that I do not know the answer to...

Severan, you seem to be angry, no wait this is the religious anger thread First of all, all the people who supposedly made up Bugs Bunny are now dead, all we have are writings that claimed they were made up, maybe the followers of your god made up the idea that bugs is made up But to be serious, Mormonism was made up less than a century ago, Islam was made up about 1700 years ago Christianity was made up about 2000 years ago, so what you are saying is that making something up doesn't count if it was along time ago? 2000 years from now the entire Earth maybe covered with the Church of Daffy Duck and suggesting he was made up could get you beheaded, good reason to go along with the gag for sure but it doesn't make Daffy real any more than time makes your God real, in fact, and in going along with this thread, it's your impotence at being unable to assert the reality of your God in comparison to the reality of Porky Pig that makes both of us angry, you get angry because you can't provide evidence of the reality of your god so you try to assert his reality by making others take him seriously. I get angry because you try to make others admit your gods reality by imposing your respect for him in schools government, billboards, TV commercials, door to door proselytizers, Pop Culture, amoral politicians, and almost anywhere else you think you can hood wink someone into fearing godly wraith. It's really kind of sad because all it would take is one substantiated miracle to bring me and billions of others into the fold. just one lousy miracle, turn Venus into a life bearing planet like the Earth over night, make the moon bloom with life, should be easy for an Omnipotent God but no we get nothing but assurances that miracles have occurred and that if we don't give our money and believe stuff that is obviously false we will burn in hell. I, on the other hand do not try to proselytize atheism, i do not do my best to convince others that God is false, I hold no services for No God, i do not collect money that will go toward getting others to believe and making more No God meeting places while claiming the money will go toward improving the lot of humanity, i do not go door to door trying to get others to go door to door to do the same thing. i am content to simply not believe, it would be nice not to be consistently mind fucked by people who want me to believe but no that is not how religion works, they need more and more people to believe so they can get more money to build new churches to impress more people into giving more money to build more churches to impress more.... hmm that sounds like a pretty good gig, maybe i should start my own church and collect money to spread the word to others who will give me more money to spread the word, oh yeah, why be angry... money for nothing... chicks for free.... You might have a point there HB, the uneducated do seem to have more babies than the educated, maybe that why many religions deny their members the option of birth control, a little bit of education just might cut down on the number of new followers...

Ummm, where would you get the anti-matter? And how would you protect the earth from such a huge blast? just a few grams of anti-matter/matter would be equal to a multimegaton blast, a meteor several miles across would be enough to wipe life off the earth.... even if it were many thousands of miles away....

The USA has lasers that work quite well in defending against incoming missiles. the Navy recently tested a laser and it worked well against small aircraft. Lasers are becoming better and better, new technology allows for lasers to be fired from ground vehicles not much larger than a Humvee and to knock down incoming artillery rounds. New powerful solid state lasers have opened up the possibility of airplanes as small as fighter jets using lasers against each other and incoming missile attack. Of course there is the almost outdated now laser defense system mounted in a 747 aircraft meant to shoot down ground to ground missiles in the launch stage. I'm not sure I would discount anti missile laser technology advancing to the point of actually shooting down incoming ICBMs in the near future. There have been some real advancements since Reagan initiated Star Wars.... Nothing I would be the farm on in a nuclear attack yet but it's not total bullshit now like it was in the 80's. opps, sorry cap'n, i missed your link... yeah what he said....

Since this is something i give a considerable amount of thought to, i know but it's my time to waste, lol, I think a torus shaped space craft rotated to give a reasonable g force inside and a magnetic field to use as a sail. in my mind this could be used to travel around the solar system, such trips might take years but living conditions would be much better than a one shot trip to mars taking a couple of years. this space craft would travel consistently to various locations have shuttles to visit planetary surfaces or to transfer supplies of raw materials to the craft. it would be the permanent home to the people who lived there, the inside would be a ecology, trees, lakes, streams, with what would be to them underground living conditions with the park like conditions above. This type of craft could in theory travel to other stars, slow boats where the trips would be in generations. magnetic sails to escape the suns gravity and to decelerate at the end of the voyage. These ships would be permanent colonies, eventually avoiding the gravity wells of the planets completely, long term artificial worlds slowly spreading across the galaxy, we should the Galaxy in a few million years...

I think the best way for the moon to solve Earth's energy crisis is by providing Helium3 for aneutronic fusion. Yes Solar power can be used to extract the helium3 from the moon, helium3 is energy dense enough make it worth while to bring it to the Earth and aneutronic fusion creates no radioactive waste and can be turned directly into electricity without steam and other inefficient means of generation.

Seriously cypress, as long as you cling to the idea that life has a 10^-41,000 chance of forming we have nothing to discuss here. That figure has been shown over and over to be totally unrealistic. I think the idea of some outside source of information being necessary is just as silly. Complexity (information) can arise from simplicity under the right conditions in the presence of energy the same way natural selection can serve to create new ever more complex life forms. I am very loath to keep this conversation going, not because i have some totally unsubstantiated idea but because I know form your previous behavior you have no intention of discussing anything. Thanks Mr Skeptic for reminding me of what he is really saying. I spent the last hour looking up links to verify my claims and you just pointed out he has done nothing even close to showing any evidence of his claims. I can post my own thread and be critiqued ( or abused) for real, no need to let cypress do it from his straw man position.