Moontanman

I do appreciate everyone answering this question, I honestly had no idea I was opening such a can of worms! While I am aware of Relativity and how frames of reference worked I was genuinely unaware of how fundamental the idea of reference frames was in this scenario. Thank you very much for answering my question in detail, while I am sure I am stilling missing much of the concept due to not speaking mathematics I am much closer than I was to understanding.

Thank you, exactly what I was wondering but I didn't realize the station was necessary.

Impartial observer... not what I had in mind, I was just thinking of the two rockets approaching each other and how they would see each other. The relative speeds of the cars was what I was getting at, I really didn't realize I wasn't being clear on that. I understand there is no track to measure anything by in relativity.

The observer is on each rocket, the rocket judges its own speed by its departure point, from my point of view it looks like the combined speeds would be greater than c, I understand this is not possible except in my frame of reference but what would the two space craft measure each others speed as?

My thoughts on this is that the rockets would measure a combined speed but still less than c . Out side or before relativity the two space craft would have been thought to approach each other as faster than c but relativity precludes that so I thought they would see each other approaching at a speed faster than .9999 c... something like .9999999 c or something closer to c but not faster than c.

Ok, so they couldn't measure their relative speeds without the station to compare it to? I am trying guys

Evidently I am too slow to get this one. I understand the two space craft would be approaching the space station at .9999 c but what would they measure each others speed at?

Would the space station influence the speed the two space craft measure on each other?

They are measuring each others speed.

So there would be no combined speed effect at all?

If two space craft were approaching each other at 99.999% of the speed of light, what would the speed of each appear to be to the other since the speeds would not add up like two trains traveling at 100 mph toward each other.

You do make a point, even in UFO literature the idea of UFO sightings coming in groups called "flaps" and it has long been known that one UFO sighting is often followed by many more in that area. The 1952 Washington DC sightings were two weekends in a row and were just the last few sightings of a "flap" that had been moving down the east coast for days or weeks before July 19th weekend and the following weekend. As for phenomena and phenomenon the former is plural the later is singular... I guess phenomena is the entire set of sightings and phenomenon would be an individual sighting?

I looked I couldn't find a dedicated thread, it might have been mentioned before in this or another thread. Predicting what aliens might do or might not do is a fools errand. I have my doubts that a "UFP" exists someplace but even a probe could be the source of all our sightings. Probes could take thousands of years to arrive ad then start to "print out" various machines and drones to explore even create biological beings from scratch to colonise the Kuiper belt if they wanted to. Almost anything becomes possible if controlled hydrogen fusion is possible.

I do not buy into aliens, I think there is sufficient evidence to justify an ongoing program to investigate this phenomena. Government secrecy is a given, the only question is why. "Nearly impossible" these two words negate this argument completely! Does unexplained mean mean investigate no further? Again, what is your point? Are you trying to say that because crazies exist UAP must be created by crazies? Your opinion is no better than mine or anyone else's. So because there are people who want aliens to be real the whole phenomena should be ignored? This is no more than I have been suggesting all along, legitimate research is needed! I think you owe Avi Loeb an apology, Avi being labeled a crack pot over this just confirms the gist of my claims of ridicule. If the man made a mistake does he deserve to labeled a crack pot? If he had misidentified a an astronomical phenomena not associated with UAP would the label crack pot have been applied? You come across as someone who has made up their mind that there is nothing to this phenomena other than crazies and crackpots. You have not looked into the evidence we currently have other than a cursory glance and simply tow the party line that there is nothing to the phenomena other than a bunch of crazies running around trying to get attention and create chaos. I would suggest you do a little bit of research to see how far from the point of this you really are. There really are reports that are inexplicable and not because of a lack of data... in fact some reports have an embarrassing amount of data and the US gov response is often deceptive and down right silly, often as unbelievable as aliens. Even one confirmed sighting would be a profound event in human history, can we really afford to ignore to ignore this? I could list a bunch of sightings that are in the inexplicable files but I've already done that over and over here only to see remarks that assume the reports are hoaxes "looks like a hub cap thrown through the air" is especially irksome as though that is a realistic critique of a photo that has been investigated by real scientists and found to be real if not explained. Its tiresome to have to deal with people who think I must be a crazy simply because I do not buy into the idea of aliens being a possible explanation of some percentage of reports as impossible. The 1952 Washington DC "Merry go round" is a prime example, it may have very well been two weekends of crazies driving the narrative but the actual reports suggest otherwise, in fact old photo graphic plates from Mount Palomar Observatory at that time caught three lights that could have been as close as Earth orbit. I am going to post a short video about this, it has the appropriate scientific papers listed as the sources for this info. It has to do with the capture of anomalous lights outside of Earth's atmosphere during the sightings in DC in 1952. These plates were found in an reinvestigation of old photos from Mt Palomar, of course the photos are not conclusive but they are another indication of something unusual going on those two weekends in July. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3i4ozTjcR0 If you want to understand this phenomena you have to climb down the rabbit hole, you have to look at the good the bad and the ugly, you cannot view this from the clouds and expect to see the rabbit.

Yes Depends really on how much influence the US has world wide on the issue, I have no way to accurately quantify that, some countries have no real means or interest and defer to larger countries. I think there is reason to think the US has considerable influence on the stance other countries take on the issue. Other countries have their own agendas at the very least but "yes", generally the US has limited influence around the world even if that limit can be quite high in some circles. The US is not all powerful but the US does have considerable influence over smaller countries on many issues. It has long been said the US has significant influence on Central and South American countries in this area. Reports that indicate that investigations are often run by the US military in these countries but confirming that is problematic at best. NATO is also supposed to tow the party line but France would be an outlier if that is true.

There have been a great many leaks in this "secret" but they are all assumed to be bs because they are often so damn weird... as though leaks about aliens wouldn't almost certainly be weird by definition.

I didn't suggest the US was doing that, in fact other countries are pursuing this puzzle independant of the USA, France being an example. There have been some claims that the USA has influenced other countries, Great Britain, Australia, and Canada are often used as examples but I cannot confirm that.

I know, if not for @swansont I know I would have ridden "certain" threads off into the desert to be lost forever by now!

The scientific community in the USA, or to be more precise, the scientific community that depends on the US gov for funding, needs to support the scientific study and stop the suppression of studying the phenomena. The suppression of scientific inquiry of UAP needs to stop. I know you keep saying that all I have is anecdotal evidence of this. I have however pointed out instances that strongly indicate this, the systemic suppression of information is all but impossible to prove with one incident. The institutionalized suppression of the study of UFOs is part of the very institution that is tasked with the suppression and the study of UAP by the US gov... I am well aware this is classic "conspiracy theory" territory but... just because its a conspiracy theory doesn't mean its not a real conspiracy. It could very well be the suppression has to do with military secretes but at some point even military secretes no longer need to be secretes. Secrecy has become more important than the secretes it protects and this need to keep secretes just for the sake of keeping secretes has IMHO contributed greatly to the obfuscation of the issue. My first suggestion to a path towards truth is to stop suppressing secretes for the sake of secrecy!

Very interesting, thank you for investigating this! I'd give you a thumbs up but I'm out for the day. Did Ni ions play a role in this or am I thinking of another process that uses Ni?

Ammonia is still an important food source for life, at least in aquatic captives. If not for bacteria that oxidize ammonia it would be very difficult to keep aquariums... 😁

Don't forget about ammonia, it is thought to have been present as well.

The book was one of his non fiction titles so it wasn't a story, at the time I wasn't aware of his fiction work. In fact I a pretty sure it was the first of his books I ever picked up. I remember little from it other than it intrigued me big time. It inspired me to write a report in HS about a biochemistry based in HF as a solvent and the ecology it might support.

Nitrous oxide from lightning ?

Asimov was a professor of biochemistry he has some intriguing ideas around possible alien biochemistries, he inspired me to want to be a biochemist until life had other plans, lol