iNow

Also, nobody’s gone to court. Nobody’s lost rights. Nobody’s lost jobs. The lesbian example to which Koti keeps clinging was a resignation, not a firing. Still arguing against the fantasies of those with the audacity to call others delusional. Ho hum.

We've been through this. Several times, in fact. I was not inferring transphobia. I was inferring you might have blind spots... spots to which you maybe were... blind. Have you considered their perspective and how exhausting it is to live every single day of your entire life not being accepted for who you are, being targeted for violence, and needing to constantly defend yourself against the perceptual whims of others? Y'all keep telling me I can't see your perspective, and that's bullshit. I'm amplifying the perspective of those who are impacted most by this issue. I promise it's not the cis-gendered white males who are being asked to stop calling someone Janet when they refer to themselves as James. You've also acknowledged your own willingness to respect this, so it's unclear to me why you keep suggesting this deep disagreement between us.

Super. Now, as for that relevance part…

Not that anybody is counting, but I believe this is now the 4th time you’ve done this dying swan routine just in this one thread. One more and you get a free sandwich!

I've considered this rather deeply actually, and repeatedly come to the decision that in this case it's rather clearly not. The fact that I strongly disagree with them and find them lacking / deserving of robust counter argument does NOT mean I haven't examined, considered, or don't understand them. Where did I do this exactly? I mean, I probably have, but don't recall and wonder if you may be conflating me with others. We've been through this repeatedly. Nobody is removing that right from you. You're arguing against men of straw. It's not hard to do, either. There are many such points. It seems we agree, and the evidence very much supports this conclusion.

I very much do, which is part of why this conversation matters so much to me

To me, being held accountable for actions is generally good. We have social norms, which sometimes need to evolve, but which get enforced through ostracizism and negative feedback. I also feel that too often those lamenting cancel cultures the modest tend to be the ones seeking most often to cancel other cultures, but this may just be my own confirmation bias at work. The bigger problems I see are tribalism and mob justice. Cancel culture as a catch-all phrase just happens to be one of the stronger lenses these days through which we hear about those aforementioned problems of tribalism and mob mentalities on social platforms… a type of piling on and bandwagon effect.

I find myself wondering if you have ever been formally diagnosed with reading comprehension problems

Thank you for finally focusing on the REAL problem… reminding us all to ignore the pursuit of respect and acceptance for transgender pronouns and to instead direct our energies toward the REAL victims in all of this… those poor souls who refuse that acceptance and respect of pronouns and force transgenders individuals into inaccurate binary buckets. You’re a hero sir for standing up so passionately for them. Who here doesn’t believe the story Chappelle shared? I seem to have missed that part of this thread and would appreciate a quote or retraction.

It’s less common, but is out there. It’s called hard atheism as Segev said.

Are you familiar with the paradox of tolerance?

No, not at all, but I must highlight how all you’ve done here is to move the goalposts. You claimed use of force. You claimed coercion. I pushed back on those two points specifically. Now you’ve shifted to labels of ignorance and bigotry. It seems self evident to me that those are quite different concepts, yet you’re now conflating them. This isn’t supposed to be so hard. It’s right there in writing. Here it is again for convenience: See? Different... Much like the law isn’t what you keep saying it is despite repeated correction.

I’m reminded of how the actual law keeps getting misrepresented through this thread. Please, my friend, help me understand… By what specific mechanism are you being forced or coerced to do absolutely anything at all? Your position is being challenged. Criticized. Flaws highlighted and shown. As we do in science. But you’re claiming coercion. You’re claiming use of force. Kinda like you’ve been mistakenly claiming about the law itself. Sorry, brother. I’m not living this same fantasy with you, but a fantasy it is.

Is this another one of those “strong arguments with reasoning” to which you earlier referred? Or, perhaps it was one of these?

Because it’s not actually happening

Huh?

Again though, this isn’t even happening. When asked for examples, no valid / coherent / on-topic ones were shared. I’m reminded of arguments with creationists where they’d come in making mispronouncements about evolution saying my mom is a chimp or that humans should go around making babies with bonobos… or that evolution doesn’t explain abiogenesis so therefore is false and other ridiculous strawmen. The same issue is happening on US around schools right now with critical race theory. Interviews with people regularly lead to, “well… I don’t know what it is, but I know I don’t like it!” It’s sad seeing you guys do it here with this law. You: I don’t like the law bc it says X! Others: Well, no. It says Y, and that’s not even close to X and here’s why. You: I can’t believe all of you keep defending X! Such an echo chamber! Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

I’m quite calm. I’m also wondering why you continue struggling to properly comprehend (or at least represent) what the law does and does not actually do

Misinterpretations of a law, thinking it says and does one thing when it very clearly doesn't (as has been shown now roughly 17x, but for whatever reasons hasn't updated the thinking of those with said misinterpretations)

Lol... I desperately cried when saying this? Good to know. I look forward to Jordan Peterson smacking "this rhetoric out of [my] mouth with a witty comment" so I may reply in kind to his ridiculous hyperbole and strawman attack. I'd like to highlight here how nobody is silencing you except yourself. You still have an open platform to make your point and support your stance. You've just failed miserably at every attempt to do so, but the platform remains open to you and you're the only one saying you're taking your ball and going home. Out of curiosity, specifically which of your posts or points do you feel was a "strong argument with reasoning?" I saw a lot of requests to call you Ze and Thou, and bunches of personal barbs at me, for example, but not these "strong arguments with reason." I'm sure the fault is mine, though, and I simply missed it. Maybe you could use the quote function to reshare it and help me overcome my flaws / provide the opportunity for me and others to see the wisdom of your point and reconsider our own positions?

We just took our lemon tree inside for winter last week when the temps went to freezing. It too is a heavy beast. Casters are amazing inventions

Rimshot

Do whatever, but comments and personal gripes will bleed across the threads and references will be made to others. I see the logic in splitting, but feel it will fail in implementation. Also, it’s only one or two people who are tossing in red herrings. Maybe deal with the bad actors instead of the topic as a whole.

It’d be more of an overflow valve than a drain hole. Unless it’s below the roots, I can’t see how it would help much. And if it’s below the roots, then the roots aren’t getting the water they need anyway. This is just a guess. I don’t know the answer. Take this with a grain of salt.

Who are you suggesting played the "race card?" It would appear you're suggesting I did, but if that's the case, then it suggests you're struggling either with honesty or reading comprehension issues (or potentially both). You should ask yourself... Do either of those possibilities bolster the position you're here defending, or are you really just continuing to troll and attempt to derail mature discussion about a highly charged topic with a flurry of disingenuous personal barbs and childish rhetorical feces flinging.