Mike Smith Cosmos

O.k. Well the summarise examples that act as a foundation and are relevant to my ' thesis are :- firstly a quote from Wikipedia shows a similar set of observation that I have experienced and brought attention to it in this Thread . ...Here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_goldfish secondly I bring , or have previously brought examples of my experience with my goldfish , in my pond . Endorsing much of what The Wikipedia quote says . Thirdly , I would say that anyone who keeps a tank or garden pond , with goldfish in , would support the two samples of goldfish behaviours , mentioned above . The relevent section from Wikipedia is quoted here :- " If transferred into a tank of other goldfish, a common goldfish would normally try to communicate and familiarize itself with its new tank mates by rubbing up against the body of other fish. The most common introductory gesture would be by swimming side by side with another goldfish with its head facing forward, or by swimming side by side with another goldfish........ " The above example is just a very small part of current observations by the writer , and seems to be corroborated by the Wikipedia quotation . It has the effect of making any pond setting , looking like the gold fish , by nature appear to undertake a " CROWD " formation as a norm . We will examine a similar structure of setting , for the case of Humans in public areas . It is the purpose of these observations , to support my Thesis :- " That animal life ( in this case Goldfish and Humans ) follow a similar style of " Crowding " when finding themselves for prolonged time in open spaces . Mike

I'm afraid I have got a bit lost after the last day or two , with several contributors , coming at me from different directions . I am not sure WHICH of your various posts , you would like me to re read , and talk with you about, what I do not understand. Happy to have a go . ( which one ) ? Could you possibly Re quote it to me in your next post , so I am not answering , or attempting to understand the wrong post . Mike

Well the three arenas for this crowding principle , in the context of this Thread namely ( investigating a Human HEIRACHY ) are :- 1) the Goldfish domain in the pool , ( how and why do they crowd ?) 2) the Human domain on earth , ( how and why do they crowd ? ) 3 ) God/Angels domain in the Spirit realm.( how and why do they crowd ?) A line of analytical comparison , about crowding, through all three would surely produce the skeleton of a Human HEIRACHY. mike

Yes , I did notice that ( I was in the midst of trying to find the page number , found it , included it , then came across your post , crossing over with mine . ) Sorry for confusion , and I do acknowledge your speedy attention to those details . Ask for your forebearance ? I am not sure what you want me to do about your detailed comments about crowding quote by Area 54 " A reason that has been investigated by science from the standpoint of biochemistry,psychology and ethology, to name but three, The phenomenon has been measured, quantified, described, documented, analysed, disected and modelled. . . . by science. Science has also investigated isolationism and solo behaviour, in the same meticulous detail, and those investigations continue because science does not jump to conclusions; science does not take a "what if" and turn it into a "must be"; science works from a "why" list, not a wish list. Pie in the sky when you die. /dripping sarcasm and intellectual disgust " Unquote Well I am not surprised that there has been a lot of research done on crowds . I am sure it is a fascinating subject . At this juncture , it would take me some time to divert to investigating just crowd behaviour. In fact it sounds quite interesting . I was just skimming a couple of obvious , thoughts , that might help me with the core of my personal, yet shared investigation , namely ' does it help in any possible way to the theme of the thread , namely is there a transfer across the HEIRACHY boundary ' upward ' , namely does crowd phenomenon have a place in the ' Spiritual or Angelic realm ' ? Mike

At SIDMOUTH in those lovely , millions and millions of year old , red sandstone coastal cliffs at SIDMOUTH ! Watching the joy on people's faces , particularly the Tap dancer with his feet 2 inches in the air off the dancing board ! Mike I promise you ," I read all the replies many times over " think about them , and try and make a response . At the same time as trying to keep the thread , on the track of the whole Thread ( OP ) . Mike

Look at this example of benefit from ' Crowding ' . In gatherings A few weeks back we ( the Jack Russel and me ) popped down to the Jurasic Coast At SIDMOUTH. For the SIDMOUTH FOLK FESTIVAL . You can see the Joy on the face of the TAP DANCER . Even the Dog joined in . mike

I am sorry you are going . I tried to present the basis for a discussion , around my small research observation ,of my Gold Fish . This was in the context of , :- could anything be gleaned from this observation , that would endorse an idea that " some possible HEIRACHY might be evident in my relationship with my Goldfish . And hense being some sort of reflection of a potential HEIRACHY existing , between a possible Higher Intelegence behind the development of the Universe. I was using the book , illustrated below , ( which I promised to reference when I found it. By David Rohl ) and any knowledge I could summon from the Bible story of Creation . David Rohl explored the regions of the upper Tigres and Euphrates upstream area , and he identified a possible site for " the garden of Eden " see attached . I did not intend any alternative views to cause hostilities, but I have , personally , put that down to ' normal heated discussion of controversial subject matter. ' This last but one caption ( Conclusion 3 ) is an extract from his Book . Page 67 LEGEND The Genesis of Civilisation by David Rohl ISBN 0-09-979991-X Arrow Books 1999 mike

We need to take care with our words , lest we put ourselves at odds with the true " Powers that be " Belshazzar " fell into this state and lost favour . Ref Daniel reads the words MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PARSIN ref :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belshazzar's_feast Daniel reads the words MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PARSIN and interprets them for the king: MENE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; TEKEL, you have been weighed and found wanting; and PERES, the kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.

Tighter crowd . Clearly, the tighter crowd is there for a reason . Protection from enemies, comfort, wellbeing . We notice this born out in , clubs, families, gatherings, marriage, friends, This could shed encouraging light on any atmosphere in the next layer up in the HEIRACHY . In anticipation , many individuals , aspire to a pleasant EXISTANCE in the life to come . All comming from a simple HIERACHY and a pond of Goldfish Mike

There are a few outstanding points that you have brought up , which I need to think about and respond . In the mean time , I have made another observation from my fish , which in line with the theme of this thread is relevant. ---------------------------------------------- OBSERVATION -------------- I notice that when I appear more movement ensues. Beside being in a line facing me, which I have taken as ' Hungry ' waiting for a feed. During other times they are meandering About aimlessly YET , There is a GROUP LOOK about them . The more I watch them , even though all over different parts of the pool . ' Higgle de Pigledy' yet there is a loose yet decided group formation. Oh course you see this in the field with sheep and beasts. Putting on my scientific cap for a moment , with an observation ! There appeares to be a 'herd ' or group mentality , looking like some form of very loose yet relentless ATTRACTION. This does apply to man , fish , and now if I am correct with spirit creatures like 'Angels ' . Yet this attraction is very loose yet relentless. Unlike say a magnetic or electric field , I does not bear that symmetrical pull. So this is a gentle yet relentless attractive force balanced with a REPULSIVE version as they are not colliding ALL -the time - . Crowd behaviour. I have the feeling this may be with all Animals ----------------------------------- If my thread theory is right , then spiritual EXISTANCE will have Crowding ? Which appears to be inferred in text . mike

Mootenman, there is a lot in your paragraph . I am happy to address them all. But so that it's not a ramble , ramble ,on and you or nobody else will read it because it's too long . I will answer each question with a quick snap answer , ( sort of yes/no ) if any really bug you , you will need to pick me up on it. Here goes. Civilisation in N& S America same time . Don't know of that ! Homo sapient going back 150,000 years , I thought the jury still out on that ! China and India going back , I heard that was not countries then , just individuals . Areas of earth steeped .. Not sure what you mean ? . I learned in history at school history went from UR to ROME . jews have a fairly documented history . The Adam description has been traced by an Historian .( have to dig it out ) traced from Tabriz to further south into Tigris and Euphrates as population grew . God only fits .... That one does need discussing because the name God can cover so many , many . .....the short answer is GOD is the one Creator of the who thing . But just what is 'the whole thing ' one of the latest new scientists says the whole thing originally was the size of one Higgs bosons , which is a millions of a millionth of an atom . Which is weeny . It's the design to make it inflate was the cleverest bit to make it go to marble size . Then the next bit , probably by massive duplication upon duplication was it made to grow into the universe we now see. That was clever and the credit appears to go to ' God ' could have been you if you got there first . It's like who invented the bit coin ? Clever. Asserting belief .. Well I have only recently made any bold statements of assertion , as the subject seemed to arise . In ones face . I am not sure who, I do not think it was me. Maybe I introduced it with my fish . Suppose I thought because I started the subject , I had better state my belief. Which is what I do believe still . That the relationship with my fish will give me personally insight into the " God Human interface " . The rest followed ,... Once mention God , and all hell lets loose .. God make literal heaven and earth in seven literal days . No ... I think it's just meaning 7 sections , or 7 periods . Do I believe animals and fish created as is . No , I personally think that the creation occurred with prototypes and natural selection processes refined plants and animals the way we breed animals for traits now , also with plants . And a lot can self select , and improve in certain environments . I have taken part in manual genetic algorithms , namely giving solutions, baby versions with more numbers to ones that get near an advantageous solution . Flood . This is a dodgy one . The only way I can answer this , will probably make you throw something at me . The story goes , that as the human population grew. Some of the helping Angels ( remember there were some 100,000,000 of them ) started to fancy materialising human bodies and having relations with human females. The offspring of these unions were ' Giants ' ( called nephalim) , they were bullies. So yes God chose to bring the canopy ( a high altitude cloudy water ) down . Which caused vaste flooding . Sounds horrific . But the waster is down here now . Yes , I think a man could be swallowed by a Hugh fish and survive , probably with a bit of intervention . I think the snakes and donkeys talking will be some form of intervention , Angel style ' drones ' No , I don't think slavery is right . But I suppose some of us are enslaved to others to earn a living !, phew ! I have done my best in short form ! See I still think science has its place , and I am sure it is used by God to give mind boggling stability to the Universe , or it would fall apart . But I do believe there is this other side which is Organised in a comepletely different way . ( sort of living , being , orientated ) mike

There is evidence right there in Adams Genetic helix. And in every descendant , right up to the modern day . Every Human alive today will have some of the root DNA that was there in Adam . Historically most civilisations can be traced back to the Tigress and Euphrates river basins. Adam himself had his start in a spot at the far North of Iran , east of Tabriz . Tabriz is North of Tehran in Iran . North East of Mosul Iraq. Iran borders Afghanistan . You can see the region in the Middle East has become very prominent in recent years, with various wars . All of this region is hardly fairy stories. It is full up with history , with many historic cities , currently being destroyed in all this fighting . Of course Syria lays to the West and South takes one to Israel. This whole area is steeped in History. Going right back to ADAM . You asked why I was here in a Science Forum . Surely a scientist can also have a belief in a God . I certainly have had both disciplines from my early childhood , right through to today . My early hobbies and then working life were well impregnated with Science and Engineering . This was mostly in electronics and mechanical engineering , later teaching . I have a continuing interest in physics , electronics , philosophy, art, science , astronomy and cosmology , geology and geography to name a few . But for some reason or another, the belief in a God fits right in the middle of everything , seems to make everything fit together. Can't help it , it just does . Mike

6000 years ago , having terra formed the Earth previously from grit, to vegetation to animals , the time came for the introduction of a special creature , one that was like the 100,000,000 other Godlike angelic creatures , but made of earth :- A MAN was created . A little west of the Caspian Sea . He became the father to everyone who has ever lived on Earth . Some billions of people who currently are alive on earth:- : ARE YOUR SIGNATURES mike ps . The slightly thinner hand is Eve. With the bit of her hair showing !

Well , I agree I am picking isolated , fragments of behaviour. But I do believe this has a value . I am also noticing , the relationship , between gold fish , and man , is in some areas , biased one way . Their interest is mainly food orientated, whereas I have an interest in the relationship . We can see how this is reflected in the GOD to MAN relationship . It would appear there is more interest from God to Man ( interested in developing a relationship ) , whereas man to God relationship (the enthusiasm is less of strong ) . Similar to the man- fish relationship , where the desire for close relationship is weaker among the fish . Mike

No. We have the Signature of the 100,000,001 terra formers ! It was not left as a secret or puzzle. mike

Well, I do not think you would make that comment , if you for a moment considered what resources , assistants, and knowledge you would need if you were to lead a massive engineering project to Terra-Form the nearby planet of MARS . This could be thought of as a future Earth Like project . It would be absolutely massive . Do you thing 100,000,000 engineers would be adequate. Where and how would you get sufficient water to create some seas. How long do you think it would take . Do you thing the end result would be beautiful and capable of continuance. I think if the project was completed it would be pretty impressive. ( I think the above might help experience what effort went toward getting Earth to the state where it could be populated . The Earths start , no doubt , was similarly a major project for the Original Creators . ) Mike

It does not matter what name you place upon my gazing out of my window , first thing today , before I have even got out of bed . I look through a gap no more than half a meter ( 18 inches ) wide . The sun is shining , the sky is azure blue the tree tops are furdent green . The sun glints by reflection though a captured water droplet , in a tree, to shine with starlike white. The birds are tweeting . I gaze at the flowers my wife has planted , in profusion about the garden . ( the colours and shapes are divine ) . There is your . .... " Evidence for gods ..".. when I think of the images of the surface of the moon , the surface of Mars , and all the other images so far of planets far and wide . Desolation . ...--------------------- ------------ if you asked me to show you the Government of England , well I suppose I could show you , the Houses of Parliament . But they would be empty buildings ( they are all on Holiday ) . I could show you some projects they had funded , say a rail link to Scotland I could show you some project in a part of the world that needs help , or some disturbance that is getting out of hand . I could show a picture of a few individual Mp's . the whole thing is spread out all over the place . ---------------------- ----------------- So it is with your ..." Evidence for gods .." It's spread out across the Universe " Mike

Yes, but I have provided , the most concrete ' evidence ' of the supernatural beings that are behind the scenes . In the way the operators of a " Punch and Judy show , seldom show their faces . They are below the curtain . You sit back and watch the show . Below the curtains are the owner and operator of " Punch and Judy " of the show . The show is the Universe , the World and its people , the minerals and crystals , the whole shabang . You can see all these things . That's all you get ! Sit back and appreciate and enjoy the show ! I can not show you any more than that . If I could , I would . Mike No! This is the point . There appears to be no instinct to sit in a row , like the adult fish , and wait for their owner (me ) . It is a learned experience , only one out of the four new ones , is regularly lining up with the adult fish . Now whether the others learn by imitation, or are drawn by hunger I have not worked through enough observations yet . I think to some extent they are all ( young and old ) drawn to me . why I am not sure ? Curiosity , strength in numbers , ?? May be it is my beard ? I must say , it makes me feel important ! I wonder if this is why ' politicians , and leaders ' get a buzz , by Governing other people , and being listened to ? Mike

OBSERVATION within the HIERACHY ( God - Man - Fish ) Over the last few weeks / months . The number of goldfish has changed. From an established 7 goldfish , to 7 + ( 4 newer ones , recently born , mainly black growing into gold later ) . = 11 total . Observation : when they anticipate feeding ( say first thing ) , they , or More exactly , the 7 adult fish line up so as to expect me coming with the food . The 4 young are not lined up , they carry on darting about from here to there , which is what all the fish do ultimately during the day , once fed. So what it occurs to me , the young , have not yet learned from the parents about lining up to be fed . ALTHOUGH , The oldest one of the young , occasionally can be seen on the end of the Row of adults , ready to feed. This observation says to me , does this happen with humans , yes to begin with the babies are all over the place with feeding . Later , gradually they are trained to come to the table to eat . so conclusion . This seems to be a trait that crosses the Age and HEIRACHY line . So this (A ) might be a design feature across all layers of the HEIRACHY in question. And ( B ) how we may be able to cross the HEIRACHY boundary between MANKIND and GOD . As it is not indemic or natural to que up for feeding , so it is not natural for humans to seek God , as the young small fish did not get in the line ready for feeding . A little convoluted , but interesting . It might explain , if only to me that the concept of looking to a God for nourishment is not natural or commonplace . Anymore than the young goldfish , just carried on darting about , all over the place . Mikeb

AREA 54 . Rainbow , only works under set conditions . . Yes the Jewel of the Earth , peopled. Stands out like a Gemstone , among all the potential homes we have observed . ( For Mankind , Animals , Minerals ) . I do not understand your ( male - female ) comment ? . Well there is a case for Humans having an inbuilt affinity to understand the difference , for Right and wrong, beauty and ugliness, symmetry, ( left and right ) , up and down , attraction and repulsion , TRUTH and FALSEHOOD . . I am using the convenience of the fish in my pool , myself as a human being , and God as an invisible being that I would like to know more of His/Her/ It's attributes. The three types being nicely distributed across the HIERACHY That I keep talking about . --------------------- see following comment from me about what I have observed today , and reasoned on the Man - Fish part of the HEIRACHY , which can give possible insight into the God - Man part of the HEIRACHY.. Next post by me Mike

MoonTanman Just the immediate world around Mesopotamia, the Black Sea , and the vosferous. Where the early civilisation gathered. The sky was more an opaque canopy , where the sun dominated the day , the moon dominated the night . Opaque No rainbow . The bringing down of the canopy , brought tremendous flooding , after which the atmosphere was clear , and when it did rain from clouds newly replacing the canopy , the rainbow appeared as you say . Not again would the canopy come down , it was down for good . The rainbow would appear when the rain and sun were in the correct orientation , as it is to this day. Mike

Sure , we we're Terraformed , by physics , chemistry and Biology . But that surely requires some form of oversight , much as you or someone else was suggesting , in the future we as Earthlings , may one day be capable of terraforming a world . What , to me is incredible , is that we are possibly the FIRST , in the whole universe to be TERRAFORMED. Someone, somewhere had to be FIRST , and we appeared to be it ! And we 'screwed up '. The big question of course is :- Who or what did the TERRAFORMING . If it's not Blasphemous, lets suggest it was a body of beings that did a lot of thinking . They somehow had managed to materialise matter , by coming up with this vaporous mini mini mini particle that had no mass but by infusing mental energy ( all of them ' the thinkers ' ) started off a chain reaction that duplicated this energy , and went fissssst from a single Higgs energy particle to a thing the size of one of our marbles. ( inflationarily ) . By careful manual manipulation they now had something to mentally work on , in the material universe ( the size of a marble ) . Bingo ! They adjusted things just right and it went into a duplicating mode , and low and behold over 13 billion years we had a material Universe . Then came the Terraforming of the first world . Our world . But when some of them materialed some things started to go wrong ! The rest is history ! Well it would make a good film ? Bags the copyright ! Mike

Yes , but that is exactly what did happen . A planet was ' terraformed ' .. by WHAT ? The HARD evidence is here . Go and look out the door the next time it is raining and the sun is shining ! And I will go outdoors and look at my fish , as the raindrops plop into the pool . And they will look up at me , who normally feed them . And who do they think I am ? To them I am probably ' a God ' ? Mike

That the manipulation of the Earths conditions , during our early history , could only have been performed by : a SUPERHUMAN ( GODLIKE ) ACTIVITY . . I doubt even with our current advancement in science could we generate a repeatable phenomenon , say on the moon , or one of our nearby planets , say EUROPA ( which has a large water content . ) . Maybe in a few hundred years time , but not currently ! Mike ps . Incidentally you can repeat the Isaac Newton style experiment , ( as early experimenters did ) . On a really sunny day with a mug full of water. Face sideways to the sun . Take a large mouthful of water . And in a firm but controlled way , blow the water up, and over at 45 % to the ground . You should see a small rainbow appear in front of you . Don't wear your best suit ! http://library.si.edu/exhibition/color-in-a-new-light/science

The hard evidence you require could well be :- the RAINBOW splitting sunlight into a SPECTRUM of light . This was demonstrated by the scientist Isaac Newton , by his famous demonstration of this phenomenon . Previously demonstrated over history as the RAINBOW . Claimed and accepted to be the work of God . I suspect even modern science , would be hard pushed to reproduce such a phenomenon ! I might be wrong , but I do not think a similar phenomenon has be observed , by our looking at other star / planetary systems across the nearby universe . Mike http://www.webexhibits.org/colorart/zoom.php?i=i/prism-iamge-01.jpg&k=&j=