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Neuron

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  1. Not sure if you opened the link. They were civils and they were brought to Bolzaneto without a judge sentence. Don't know which crime are you talking about. Many of them were simply journalists documenting the protests at G8.
  2. Not sure what is your point. I support police violence when it is needed. But the beatings I talked about happened the day after the riot was sedated and policemen acted in group against single prisoners, beating them one after one. It was literally a punitive expedition and I don't support that. Here too, if there are strong evidence. There are surely other anecdotical evidence in our history. If you are interested may I suggest reading this wikipedia article, in particular the section about "Treatment of prisoners at Bolzaneto". If you want statistics instead I must search them.
  3. I proposed one but apparently for you is not enough. Do you realize whatever definition we take there will always be a certain degree of ambiguity? So why were you questioning such strange and unrealistic situations? Have you ever seen police quell a riot slapping prisoners hands? Why don't you prefer talking about more realistic example such as the beatings up of prisoners that happen more regularly? We still don't have your opinion after all
  4. We are talking about the same episode. The video I posted is an edited mix of various footages recorded by the prison security cams (doing so knowing of being recorded also helps understand how untouchable policemen thought to be) If I have time I will search the link but I remember the topic about using educational violence on children has already been discussed. And, from my interpretation, the conclusions were along the line of "violence is bad but children don't have the understanding of a grown-up so sometimes slapping them is the only way to go". You asked about a specific case (teaching a child to not put a fork in the electric outlet) and in that case the law allows that (based on my knowledge). It's unlawful if you slap your child too often without need, slap a prisoner once, or slap a prisoner every day. Whether it's torture or not I don't know.
  5. Since you want an explicit definition of torture I will use the definition of art. 613 bis of our penal code. Putting it simple: slapping a child hand is not torture, beating up prisoners because you are frustrated and your life sucks and you are sadistic is torture. Don't worry, you missed nothing. Just one of the many beating up of prisoners that rarely (according to police) or often (according to every other evidence) happen.
  6. Are you seriously comparing torture to slapping a child hand in order to teach him a lesson? I don't have a formal definition of torture but certainly that was not what I was thinking about. That's how italian police treats prisoners. It's what came to my mind when the OP asked whether we should use torture for criminals or not. A system like this creates even more criminals and probably contribute to the anti-social behaviours of detainees. Does a criminal feel in peace with society once he get out of prison, the same society that convicted him to that destiny? How can cruel violence contribute to re-education? There aren't many situations in life where answers are simple but for me this is one of them.
  7. You can't know beforehand who is re-educatable vs who is not, so everyone should be given the opportunity to re-education. For people who keeps reiterating crimes the problem is different and surely complicated. But anyway I am still against torture even in those cases because I doubt it works on a practical level. There is a concept, typically propagandized by italian right-parties, that if you want to keep people from committing crimes you should raise the punishment. I think it's a blind way to see things because it doesn't take into account why people do certain things and the entire context of people lives. It's not a simple positive vs negative benefits of committing crime that cross criminals' mind. I agree. Many treatments may be considered torture, in fact the concept is somewhat ambiguous. But the OP was talking about physical torture and I was still (implicity) talking about that. I think there aren't many doubt about what physical torture is.
  8. Art. 27 c. 3 of Italian Constitution says: Punishments may not be inhuman and shall aim at re-educating the convicted. I can't agree more with our constitution. We shouldn't even discuss torture as a punishment in a civil world. Edit: Spelling error
  9. I was more interested in what happened after the big bang rather than before (if there was a "before") Why is not homogeneous anymore? How did the expansion perturbate that state? MigL hypothesis looks plausible but I understand a better theory is needed before being sure. I think a unified theory will provide an answer.
  10. That's interesting, thank you Wow, I never thought about this. Is this mathematical demonstrated/demonstrable?
  11. Hi everyone, Reading other threads in this forum, like https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/120772-please-tell-me-we-have-free-will/, it seems to be well-accepted that our universe is almost completely (except for quantum uncertainty) deterministic. My question is, what determined the inital state of the universe? I mean, where did all the initial information come from? Thank you for reading.
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