TransformerRobot Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 If a race of people were from another dimension, but in that dimension they were from another planet, would they still be aliens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I think they'd be lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfmotat Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 So basically your question is, "what is the definition of 'alien?'" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Looking at the Oxford English Dictionary inter-dimensional beings are not covered in the definition of 'alien'. Question solved Edited November 10, 2014 by ajb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransformerRobot Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 So basically your question is, "what is the definition of 'alien?'" Well, yes, kind of. Alien means outside of where we live, foreign, or of extraterrestrial origin. Look at Pacific Rim. The alien civilization who sent the Kaiju still count since they're not from Earth. Same with Krang from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (and the aliens of the same name in the 2012 reboot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think the definition of alien is straightforward, but you may want to define what you mean by dimension, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransformerRobot Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think the definition of alien is straightforward, but you may want to define what you mean by dimension, A different dimension of being seen, heard, touched, tasted or smelled. That's what they mean by the second dimension and third dimension, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 A different dimension of being seen, heard, touched, tasted or smelled. That's what they mean by the second dimension and third dimension, right? That is not how you should think of dimensions. We live in 3+1 dimensions. Say you have a party in your room and you would like to invite me. What would I need to know? Well I need to know where your house is, that is specified by two numbers, the longitude and latitude of your house. I then also need to know it is up stairs, so you need to tell me it is on the first floor. So we have three numbers (x,y,z). The fourth number I need is the time of your party; you could use the Julian calendar to specify that. So I need (x,y,z,t). More or other dimensions would be something similar. Other 'directions' that need specifying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 That is not how you should think of dimensions. We live in 3+1 dimensions. Say you have a party in your room and you would like to invite me. What would I need to know? ... You also need to know that you never ever invite mathematical physicists to parties - they drink all the booze and then slink off with your girlfriend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransformerRobot Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 That is not how you should think of dimensions. We live in 3+1 dimensions. Say you have a party in your room and you would like to invite me. What would I need to know? Well I need to know where your house is, that is specified by two numbers, the longitude and latitude of your house. I then also need to know it is up stairs, so you need to tell me it is on the first floor. So we have three numbers (x,y,z). The fourth number I need is the time of your party; you could use the Julian calendar to specify that. So I need (x,y,z,t). More or other dimensions would be something similar. Other 'directions' that need specifying. Okay, then let me change it to "separate plane of existence" if that works better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 ! Moderator Note Winger such an unprovoked insult is completely at odds with our forum. Do not continue in this manner. ajb, you forgot the dimension of stupidity. Your explanation shows your ignorance. How many times have you seen Hunger Games? The movie ends after a couple of hours. You sound like you're still in fantasy land. Does the professor you're an assistant to actually exist or is he in the eighth dimension? You sound so ridiculous -- in this dimension -- it's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I was just looking for a yes or no question to if one can still exist physically on a certain planet but in a different dimension. As ajb points out, a dimension gives perspective, it's not a place you can go visit. Have you ever visited Flatland? It has only length and width as spatial dimensions, plus time. You can draw it on a piece of paper, as long as you agree that your pen adds no height to Flatland. All the beings in Flatland have no height, can't even conceive of what it is because nothing has height in Flatland, they have no senses that can detect height because they don't need them. When YOU visit Flatland, you still have height, but everyone from Flatland only sees the parts of you that have length and width, that come into contact with their flat world. You appear just like they do. You'd have some superpowers, like being able to change size as you move through a dimension the Flatlanders don't have access to. You could make yourself disappear briefly by jumping, something no Flatlander can do. So there's an example of how you could visit another planet (making you an alien), and have access to a dimension the inhabitants can't sense. You could exist there and parts of you could be in another dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransformerRobot Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) As ajb points out, a dimension gives perspective, it's not a place you can go visit. Have you ever visited Flatland? It has only length and width as spatial dimensions, plus time. You can draw it on a piece of paper, as long as you agree that your pen adds no height to Flatland. All the beings in Flatland have no height, can't even conceive of what it is because nothing has height in Flatland, they have no senses that can detect height because they don't need them. When YOU visit Flatland, you still have height, but everyone from Flatland only sees the parts of you that have length and width, that come into contact with their flat world. You appear just like they do. You'd have some superpowers, like being able to change size as you move through a dimension the Flatlanders don't have access to. You could make yourself disappear briefly by jumping, something no Flatlander can do. So there's an example of how you could visit another planet (making you an alien), and have access to a dimension the inhabitants can't sense. You could exist there and parts of you could be in another dimension. What if these aliens had access to a technology that allowed them to be sensed in our dimension, or technology that allowed us to sense in their dimension? Edited November 11, 2014 by TransformerRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Okay, then let me change it to "separate plane of existence" if that works better. I am not sure if that works much better. It is is possible that there are extra dimensions that we just don't see. For some reason we are constrained to live in 3+1. For example string theory suggest that the Universe is really 9+1 dimensions. Either the extra dimensions are curled up so small we just don't see them or we are constrained to live on a 3 brane, that is some 'sheet' sat inside the bulk. For these large extra dimensions and the brane world scenarios gravity is the only force we know of that is not constrained to live on the brane; gauge theories to do with open strings and these start and end on branes, while gravity is to do with closed strings and so can propagate in the bulk. I could be interesting to speculate that there are other brane worlds and this is where your aliens live. In principal they could be detected via the gravitational effect of their brane on ours! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 What if these aliens had access to a technology that allowed them to be sensed in our dimension, or technology that allowed us to sense in their dimension? As ajb mentions, it doesn't help to look at it as "our dimension/their dimension". We live in three spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransformerRobot Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 As ajb mentions, it doesn't help to look at it as "our dimension/their dimension". We live in three spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension. What if they, or we, could find a way to be sensed in this temporal dimension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 What if they, or we, could find a way to be sensed in this temporal dimension? Time is the temporal dimension, and we already sense it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I understand what he is trying to say, in colloquial terms "dimension" is often used as though it means another universe, often identical in many ways to our own with only small differences or sometimes with huge differences but still occupying the same space as ours but still separate in some way. It's a common plot devise in science fiction. People sometimes claim that this idea solves the problem of UFOs asserting they are not space travelers but interdimensional travelers. The term doesn't make much sense when compared to what we actually know about the natural world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I understand what he is trying to say, in colloquial terms "dimension" is often used as though it means another universe, often identical in many ways to our own with only small differences or sometimes with huge differences but still occupying the same space as ours but still separate in some way. It's a common plot devise in science fiction. People sometimes claim that this idea solves the problem of UFOs asserting they are not space travelers but interdimensional travelers. The term doesn't make much sense when compared to what we actually know about the natural world... I think it's important here, especially here, to use terminology correctly. Too often, pop-sci references take over legitimate definitions, and we end up with the misuse of such words as "theory" and "logic" and "dimension". I'm not just being pedantic here (I think). The scientific definition of dimension is interesting in its own right. What if there are more dimensions than our senses are designed to detect? I'm reminded of Douglas Adam's pan-dimensional beings, who look like rats in the first three spatial dimensions, with the rest of their bodies only accessible from higher dimensions. I don't think there are enormously important things we don't know about, because we'd probably detect something we couldn't explain any other way. I think it's important to work with accepted definitions so conversations like this can be productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransformerRobot Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well, with that in mind, would it make sense for a sentient being or other creature to one day evolve into a form that can be accessed in the same dimensions as us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well, with that in mind, would it make sense for a sentient being or other creature to one day evolve into a form that can be accessed in the same dimensions as us? I think that would be governed by the physics in their part of the bulk Universe. It maybe possible that in a brane world scenario that the two branes intersect or overlap. This may allow communication between us. But this is all so speculative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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