[36grit]

Could it be like a gas existing in a state below absolute zero?

I undestand scientists are mapping dark matter using it's light bending properties. I was wondering if neutrinos past through without bending. And/or protons and/or quarks.

[Tres Juicy]

Absolute zero is absolute, you can't go below it

http://en.wikipedia....i/Absolute_zero

Temperature is a measure of movement/vibration/spin of atoms

Once their not moving at all that's absolute zero

You cant make them move less than not at all.

"I was wondering if neutrinos past through without bending. And/or protons and/or quarks."

Good question, one i can't answer I'm afraid... I'll wait until someone else does and mooch off of their knowledge

[Klaynos]

Things which pass through (or near) a cloud of dark matter would interact with it via gravity. There would only be very very very weak electromagnetic interactions. So the particles you list would interact and trajectories altered.

[pantheory]

36grit, on 20 December 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

Could it be like a gas existing in a state below absolute zero?

Yes, anything at or very near absolute zero would produce no detectable EM radiation and if massive, could produce the effects of dark matter. The question is that if all the surrounding temperatures were at the observed 2.7 K micro-wave background, how could such gas etc. maintain a colder temperature than the microwave background indefinitely and how could it become that cold in the first place?

Quote

I understand scientists are mapping dark matter using it's light bending properties. I was wondering if neutrinos past through without bending. And/or protons and/or quarks.

According to General Relativity EM radiation as well as all matter including electrons, protons, neutrinos and anti-particles, must follow the warp lines of spacetime accordingly produced by matter, and therefore would bend in their path passing by a gravitational influence. As to quarks, they accordingly cannot exist as independent particles.

This post has been edited by pantheory: 21 December 2011 - 02:14 AM

[36grit]

pantheory, on 21 December 2011 - 02:09 AM, said:

The question is that if all the surrounding temperatures were at the observed 2.7 K micro-wave background, how could such gas etc. maintain a colder temperature than the microwave background indefinitely and how could it become that cold in the first place?

I'll see if I can't come up with a hypothesis. Wait a minute, there its ! They're little tares in relativity. Zero entropy gas spewing in from these tares and warming up is probably the direct cause of inflation. It is the outside of the universe coming in. Like iceburges falling into the ocean and slowly melting.
What do ya think?

This post has been edited by 36grit: 27 December 2011 - 12:21 AM

[MigL]

How would regular matter and energy get across these 'tares' ? In 4d space/time they would be a volume and so would be regions of vast void across which light couldn't pass ( like black holes, but emitting gas ?? ).
Your other flight of fancy implies that the 'outside' of the universe is filled with infinite amounts of dark matter. Since dark matter is affected by gravity, it would collapse and crush our embedded universe. And what about the interface between outside and inside the universe ? Along with numerous other problems, too many to mention.

That's usually the problem with spur-of-the-moment hypothesis, not much thought is put into them !!!

[G Anthony]

Dark Matter is an unnecessary ad hoc fix to fill in the blanks in the Friedmann model under the FLRW metric. Galactic supermassive black-holes exist as true physical singularities according to the Kretschmann invariant and Schwartzchild's analysis. Therefore, as point masses, they must possess a hyperbolic (1/kr) gravitational field, NOT a field that falls off as 1/r². Now, k = constant = 1m, S.I., for dimensional integrity. It is not true that GR cannot tolerate hyperbolic spacetime geometries. "The universe is hyperbolic." said Albert Einstein in his classic paper of 1916. An hyperbolic field will give constant rotational acceleration to orbiting bodies as far from the center of a black-hole as we might like to measure. This means that bodies near the periphery of a galaxy seem to move at constant velocity because rotational acceleration does not drop to near zero as with a !/r² inverse square law.

Gravitation does not fall nearest to zero between galaxies in a cluster either. So they too can bend light and affect redshifts in ways that mimic Dark Matter. The rotation of galaxies in clusters is also influenced by the black-holes that they contain with their 1/kr gravitational potential profiles. The not quite counterbalanced redshift effects in the Sunyaev-Zeldovich phenomenon are influence by the hyperbolic galactic and galactic cluster gravitational fields that exist as light falls out of such clusters and super-clusters into a large void and as it climbs out of it again after the universe has expanded by another billion light years or so. Scientists are mapping, not Dark Matter, but the huge extent of the network of hyperbolic galactic and super-galactic gravitational fields that behave like Dark Matter because of the mathematical properties of the hyperbolic gravitational field.

Any entity that possesses rest mass or mass by virtue of its motion will be influenced by the gravitational fields that it encounters. It is not so much that a gas may be very much colder than other gases that such a body might encounter, but whether it may be much denser. But absolute zero is absolute. Only translational motion and ground state vibration modes are allowed for gases at absolute zero, and such modes are only for multi-atom molecules. Intergalactic gas is almost non-existent, is not denser and is not a factor.

[swansont]

G Anthony, on 29 December 2011 - 11:56 PM, said:

Dark Matter is an unnecessary ad hoc fix to fill in the blanks in the Friedmann model under the FLRW metric. Galactic supermassive black-holes exist as true physical singularities according to the Kretschmann invariant and Schwartzchild's analysis. Therefore, as point masses, they must possess a hyperbolic (1/kr) gravitational field, NOT a field that falls off as 1/r². Now, k = constant = 1m, S.I., for dimensional integrity. It is not true that GR cannot tolerate hyperbolic spacetime geometries. "The universe is hyperbolic." said Albert Einstein in his classic paper of 1916. An hyperbolic field will give constant rotational acceleration to orbiting bodies as far from the center of a black-hole as we might like to measure. This means that bodies near the periphery of a galaxy seem to move at constant velocity because rotational acceleration does not drop to near zero as with a !/r² inverse square law.

Gravitation does not fall nearest to zero between galaxies in a cluster either. So they too can bend light and affect redshifts in ways that mimic Dark Matter. The rotation of galaxies in clusters is also influenced by the black-holes that they contain with their 1/kr gravitational potential profiles. The not quite counterbalanced redshift effects in the Sunyaev-Zeldovich phenomenon are influence by the hyperbolic galactic and galactic cluster gravitational fields that exist as light falls out of such clusters and super-clusters into a large void and as it climbs out of it again after the universe has expanded by another billion light years or so. Scientists are mapping, not Dark Matter, but the huge extent of the network of hyperbolic galactic and super-galactic gravitational fields that behave like Dark Matter because of the mathematical properties of the hyperbolic gravitational field.

Any entity that possesses rest mass or mass by virtue of its motion will be influenced by the gravitational fields that it encounters. It is not so much that a gas may be very much colder than other gases that such a body might encounter, but whether it may be much denser. But absolute zero is absolute. Only translational motion and ground state vibration modes are allowed for gases at absolute zero, and such modes are only for multi-atom molecules. Intergalactic gas is almost non-existent, is not denser and is not a factor.

!

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