Dalo

Why is the sky blue on Earth

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StringJunky    1511
1 hour ago, Dalo said:

This is the biggest mystery of all. And if one thinks about how the world looks like in perspective, and how it does from another perspective, one can only wonder how it it is possible that we see the sun "in its totality", meaning, the parts facing us.

The sun rays can only reach us in a parallel way because of our perspective. If we remember how much larger the sun really is, and we still cling to the idea of parallel rays, then we would be a dust speck on the path of the sun, and the few rays getting bent through the atmosphere would show us nothing but a bright speck.

 

That is the mystery of space, and how we see it and experience it. Before the relativity of time, maybe Einstein should have started with the relativity of space.

But they more parallel i.e. relatively, with distance, not absolutely, Some of those rays that are so slightly converging from all over the disk to reach our eyes to a point close enough for our eyes to make an image with them. Which rays we pick up to make an image from the innumerable number of photons coming at us is determined by the points in space where our eyes are.

Edited by StringJunky

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Dalo    8
1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

But they more parallel i.e. relatively, with distance, not absolutely, Some of those rays that are so slightly converging from all over the disk to reach our eyes to a point close enough for our eyes to make an image with them. 

Aren't you changing the theory?

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Dalo    8
1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

How?

That's what I would like to know.

Anyway even that wouldn't help. How much would the sun rays need to converge to reach the eyes of an observer on earth? Almost parallel would not cut it I'm afraid.

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Strange    2543
6 minutes ago, Dalo said:

Anyway even that wouldn't help. How much would the sun rays need to converge to reach the eyes of an observer on earth? Almost parallel would not cut it I'm afraid.

Why not? Rays leave every part of the surface at a range of angles. Some of those, from every point, must reach your eye. It is impossible for them not to (ignoring shadows, clouds, eclipses, etc).

What is it abut that you don't understand? What is so complicated? Are you equally puzzled about how you see your teacup? Or do you think the Sun is special somehow?

Edited by Strange

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StringJunky    1511
1 minute ago, Dalo said:

That's what I would like to know.

Anyway even that wouldn't help. How much would the sun rays need to converge to reach the eyes of an observer on earth? Almost parallel would not cut it I'm afraid.

If I can think of a way of simplifying it further, I will,  but can't atm. 

 

1 minute ago, Strange said:

Why not? Rays leave every part of the surface at a range of angles. Some of those, form every point, must reach your eye. It is impossible for them not to (ignoring shadows, clouds, eclipses, etc)

Yes, wherever you stand there is a set of rays converging there that you can make an image from.

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Dalo    8

Please remember that you are thinking in terms of ratios given by perspective. Seen like this I can only agree with all of you.

What I am saying is that our perspective, which is certainly unavoidable as far as we are concerned, does not explain space. Objects become smaller with distance, seen from our perspective. But seen from the other side, it is us who are becoming smaller and smaller.

At the same time, when we try to think about it, we cannot deny that neither the distant objects nor ourselves have shrunken to a point.

Edited by Dalo

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Strange    2543
11 minutes ago, Dalo said:

Objects become smaller with distance, seen from our perspective. But seen from the other side, it is us who are becoming smaller and smaller.

This is simple schoolboy geometry, as has already been pointed out.

You still haven't explained why you think it is impossible to see the Sun. 

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Dalo    8

I did, but you find my view apparently so strange that you simply ignore it.

Imagine your size, as an observer, and that of the sun. Forgetting about perspective, how much would the sun rays need to converge for you to see (half of) the sun?

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Strange    2543
8 minutes ago, Dalo said:

I did, but you find my view apparently so strange that you simply ignore it.

Imagine your size, as an observer, and that of the sun. Forgetting about perspective, how much would the sun rays need to converge for you to see (half of) the sun?

Why not draw a diagram and work out the answer. Then you might get it.

It obviously isn't going to help if people just tell you the same thing over and over again. All I can say is: light rays leave all parts of the surface at all angles. Some of those rays, from every part, will be at just the right angle to intersect your eye. That may seem improbable, but then only a minute fraction arrive at your eye. The vast majority don't. That is why the Sun is merely very bright. 

I can't think of any simpler way of saying it. If you really don't get it (and I find it hard to believe you are not just pulling our collective leg) maybe it is time to concentrate on something simpler. 

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Dalo    8
14 minutes ago, Strange said:

maybe it is time to concentrate on something simpler

you should definitely do that.

15 minutes ago, Strange said:

Why not draw a diagram and work out the answer.

How would such a diagram look like, drawn on scale?

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Phi for All    4814
10 minutes ago, Dalo said:

you should definitely do that.

How would such a diagram look like, drawn on scale?

!

Moderator Note

No. Sorry, but this is ridiculous. At a certain point, it becomes obvious you aren't accepting any of the explanations given. And whether you're purposely trolling or simply don't understand that you need to try to study physics before deciding it's wrong, it makes no difference to these discussions. It's a whole lot of effort wasted on someone who seems unwilling to take knowledge on board as it's presented.

Thread closed. No more like this. Please go study physics. Or better yet, stay and ask questions instead of this guesswork revisionism. 

 
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