# Help Me Repairing A Stablizer

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Want to learn how a 2500 watts PEL Hi-Power electronic stabilizer works? It does not provide 220 volts although values mentioned on it are as:

Input = 90V - 250V

Output = 220V

I opened it and it has two meters which show input and output voltages. It has a transformer (not sure step up or down). It has a circuit which have 2 10A relays. Relays number is H200Fd12-10A. This circuit also have two rotating screw like things which can be adjusted to increase amperes or decrease amperes as one of person while repairing told me. The problem I believe is with this circuit. I am ready to change whole circuit along with relays. The maximum size relay I can get is 30A relay. I already shown this stabilizer to 2 people but they were not able to mend it in satisfactory manner. So I decided to learn it myself so that I can repair it in satisfactory manner.

See photos here

Waiting for discussion,

Amir

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What makes you think it is broken?

Many such pieces of equiment wil only turn on under load.

Have you tried it on load?

I opened it

This could be very dangerous if you lack experience.

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Want to learn how a 2500 watts PEL Hi-Power electronic stabilizer works? It does not provide 220 volts although values mentioned on it are as:

Input = 90V - 250V

Output = 220V

I opened it and it has two meters which show input and output voltages. It has a transformer (not sure step up or down). It has a circuit which have 2 10A relays. Relays number is H200Fd12-10A. This circuit also have two rotating screw like things which can be adjusted to increase amperes or decrease amperes as one of person while repairing told me. The problem I believe is with this circuit. I am ready to change whole circuit along with relays. The maximum size relay I can get is 30A relay. I already shown this stabilizer to 2 people but they were not able to mend it in satisfactory manner. So I decided to learn it myself so that I can repair it in satisfactory manner.

See photos here

Waiting for discussion,

Amir

As Studiot mentioned this is extremely dangerous. Only a certified professional should be repairing this unit.

How much experience do you have? What troubleshooting equipment do you have available ? As Studiot asked have you tried it under load?.

Further questions will depend on the answer to question 1 and 2.

I never feel comfortable telling someone how to troubleshoot electrical equipment without knowing they can safely do so

Are you familiar with PWM? Pulse width modulation type circuits?

1) are any fuses popped?

2) are any component heating up ?

3) under load is it generating power?

4) are there any fault indicator lights or sounds?

5) does it have online connection for diagnostic software?

6) is there a burnt smell, sweet or otherwise?

7)what is it doing as opposed to not doing?

8) do you see any visual indications of component damage?

9)Do you have the users and manufacturers manual?

10) have you contacted the manufacturer for advise?

Those questions are safe to check.

(Oh on the visual checks, do any capacitors appear deformed? If you don't know how to recognize a capacitor. STOP NOW. Let a professional repair. Before you kill yourself.

Edited by Mordred
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What makes you think it is broken?

Many such pieces of equiment wil only turn on under load.

Have you tried it on load?

This could be very dangerous if you lack experience.

Not exactly sure what do you mean by broken? I believe it has fault because as shown on its front , It must get 90 - 250 VAC and must output 220 V but its not doing that. Its output is same as the input or even less than input.

Sorry but again I am not exactly sure what do you mean by under load and on load. I am trying to run 600 watts Inverter on it and it can support up to 2500 watts but I currently do not have more load for it.

Yes, I know this is dangerous. I even got shock 2-3 times while trying change amperes on its circuit to get 220 V. Please see this to know how I was increasing amperes. I was taught increasing amperes by one refrigerator repair person.

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Your not providing any details where we can help. Look for a nameplate info sticker make and model number please

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You really need to explain properly what your issue is and why you have apparantly connected the outputs of two electrical devices together in opposition.

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After a glance at pictures... It bothers me that the transformer just looks too small for 2500VA (but it is hard to say because there is not much to be used for scale). I hope I am wrong; because if the transformer is substantially weaker than 2500VA, then there is probably nothing you can do.

Hmm... If this is a 'constant voltage transformer' technology then I would expect to see some more substantial capacitors (but I never meet such technology, so again I could be wrong). So it seems to me that this is just a multi-tap transformer and two relays to choose taps.

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As Studiot mentioned this is extremely dangerous. Only a certified professional should be repairing this unit.

How much experience do you have? What troubleshooting equipment do you have available ? As Studiot asked have you tried it under load?.

Further questions will depend on the answer to question 1 and 2.

I never feel comfortable telling someone how to troubleshoot electrical equipment without knowing they can safely do so

Are you familiar with PWM? Pulse width modulation type circuits?

1) are any fuses popped?

2) are any component heating up ?

3) under load is it generating power?

4) are there any fault indicator lights or sounds?

5) does it have online connection for diagnostic software?

6) is there a burnt smell, sweet or otherwise?

7)what is it doing as opposed to not doing?

8) do you see any visual indications of component damage?

9)Do you have the users and manufacturers manual?

10) have you contacted the manufacturer for advise?

Those questions are safe to check.

(Oh on the visual checks, do any capacitors appear deformed? If you don't know how to recognize a capacitor. STOP NOW. Let a professional repair. Before you kill yourself.

Agree but I am curious to learn.

No. Only tester, screw drivers and hand tool. As already told Studiot, I only have maximum 600 watts load for this stabilizer right now.

I am sorry to make you uncomfortable but I do not touch things without having proper knowledge.

No not familiar with PWM.

1) Don't think so as only one fuse and seems Ok to me. Please see here 1 2 3
3) Yes it is generating power but I only so far put a load of 600 watts i.e running inverter .
4) It has only one light and I used to blink and there were sparking below the relay but it has stopped after I have shown it to the second repairing person.
5) No.
6) I believe there was smell when was the case 4.
7) Output voltage is same as input voltage or even less than that.
8) No.
9) No.
10) I visited manufacturer and no longer manufacture stabilizers as I could find.
Ok.
(No no capacitors are deformed. Please see this. There are total 4 capacitors I can see, 2 blue and two black. I have already shown it to 2 repair persons, first one did soldering below the relay to stop sparking and also tried to increase amperes (as he told) by rotating screw like things below the circuit on which two relays are affixed. He rotated one screw maximum to the clockwise and other to the anti clockwise. At his shop voltage crossed 230 V and when I came home it was giving less than 220 so I tried to play with these screw like things but soon I got sparking problem again and also screws rotating stopped showing any results. Second day I took it to other person which is also a ups maker. I wanted him to adjust these screw settings and also told the sparking problem, He also soldered below the relay to stop sparking and adjusted these screw like things. I suggested him to move one screw maximum clockwise and other anticlockwise but he said in that way it would work improperly and way I set this would work properly. He also said that this stabilizer will only work if the voltage is 180 V otherwise not. He also called this stabilizer as use less. Voltage at my home in summer nights can even drop to 100 V and this stabilizer must give 220 output even if the voltage is 90 V or more. So far I have been able to device that problem is only with this circuit. Please see photos . Either in the circuit, relays or screw like things need to be adjusted. I will get it done from some repairing person but I want to learn what will be the effect if I replace two 10 A relays with 30 A replays (that is the maximum relays available here) and should I also change this circuit? Teach me about this screw like things setting so that I can make this stabilizer to output 220 even if the voltage is =<90 V. I say again, I will not touch stabilizer again before discussing here even if it takes a lot of time. Apart from this stabilizer, I also have two malfunctioned flash lights, a PC power supply, a small cassette player and a vcd player but don't know why I am so curious to learn these things just for the sake of fun. I didn't touch those things so for and will only touch after discussing. I do not have time to learn from some repairing person so thats why joined this forum to learn. I am sorry for making you uncomfortable in any way but I will follow you as well as other expert guys advice here.

Your not providing any details where we can help. Look for a nameplate info sticker make and model number please

Unfortunately, I do not have this stabilizer packing as I purchased it in 2010. The only info I can find on its body is here

You really need to explain properly what your issue is and why you have apparantly connected the outputs of two electrical devices together in opposition.

I am really sorry about that page but that page works fine at my end. You can see that inverter details by watching and seeing this photos

My issue is that I am not getting consistent 220 V and stabilizers output voltage is same as input. Not sure what do you mean by "why you have apparantly connected the outputs of two electrical devices together in opposition"? I tried to power inverter from this stabilizer so that it can get 220 V but as inverter lcd show voltage is not 220 V.

After a glance at pictures... It bothers me that the transformer just looks too small for 2500VA (but it is hard to say because there is not much to be used for scale). I hope I am wrong; because if the transformer is substantially weaker than 2500VA, then there is probably nothing you can do.

Hmm... If this is a 'constant voltage transformer' technology then I would expect to see some more substantial capacitors (but I never meet such technology, so again I could be wrong). So it seems to me that this is just a multi-tap transformer and two relays to choose taps.

As written on its body front it should be 4166.666666666667 VA as I know that 1000 VA = 600 watts and it is 2500 watts. I need to run 1000 VA inverter on this stabilizer so I am fine even if its capacity is half than mentioned on it.

Yes I also believe that it is a relay type transformer as people on one of Pakistani forum told me.

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First off never change the fuse ratings. If they are 10 amp fuses then this inverter is only designed to deliver roughly 8 amps normal load. The extra amps being for nuisance tripping.

PWM. Is pulse width modulation. It's a common type of circuit used in inverters. It takes a dc or ac voltage and converts it to digital sine waves. Which is not the same as AC sine wave. Not precisely though close enough for most equipment.

This type of circuit is rather complex as it involves capacitors and resistance values in RC timing circuits in older methods. Newer methods use specific pulse generation chips. Though this amounts to transistor diode circuits built into the IC chips. To deliver a modulating (rate and amplitude square wave). The circuits also includes diodes.

Ideally you want an oscilloscope to troubleshoot this circuit. Using a digital multimeter may not be enough.

Here is a few circuits for PWM. This circuit can be inside a single IC with component control circuits feeding the IC chip itself. Such as those variable resistors your adjusting. Those variable resistors are probably adjusting the TIMING CIRCUITS of the PWM digital on off rates.

http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/es/Nov1998/08/PWMINV.HTM

now here is the concern. You had two occurances of sparking at a relay. If this is a solid state relay damage to the relay may have occurred. However if it is an electromechanical relay it may be fine. However other components on the same circuit as the relay may have been damaged. Ie an internal circuit of an IC or transistor. Troubleshooting these can give experienced and certified electronic techs with the right equipment nightmares.

Instead of powering up another inverter hook the output from this Inverter to other 220 ac devices. Light etc. You may damage your imini inverter as it expects a certain type of incoming voltage.

Can you provide what the voltage specifications are on the imini inverter? Does it expect incoming DC power? ( most likely) ....

Think about that for a second.

inverters convert DC to AC...

your power regulator outputs rectified AC....

in other words its supplying the wrong type of voltage.....

(Which will damage both components)

(Inverters take power from battery power, DC direct current NOT AC, or rectified AC alternating current)

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I understand that English is not your first language, but I am seriously struggling to understand what you are trying to achieve.

Mordred has voiced my concerns

Mordred

Think about that for a second.

inverters convert DC to AC...

your power regulator outputs rectified AC....

in other words its supplying the wrong type of voltage.....
(Which will damage both components)
(Inverters take power from battery power, DC direct current NOT AC, or rectified AC alternating current)

If you can upload photos to dropbox, why can you not upload them here to the site?

I really need a connection diagram to understand how you are connecting these two boxes and what you are expecting to happen.

The first rule of (electrical) servicing is

Divide the setup in to sections and find out which section is not working properly.

So Mordred's suggestion to try different loads on the stabiliser and report the outcomes is really sound.

If your only tools are mechanical hand tools how do you know what voltage the stabiliser is giving?

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First off never change the fuse ratings. If they are 10 amp fuses then this inverter is only designed to deliver roughly 8 amps normal load. The extra amps being for nuisance tripping

I am not talking about changing fuse as shown here 1 2 3 but talking about changing relays. Currently there are two relays. Each one is H200Fd12-10A also shown in here. I talked to one of the best electrical equipment whole sale dealer in my city and he said these can be replaced by maximum up to 30A (As these are the maximum relays he have. And also this is not inverter, a stabilizer.

PWM. Is pulse width modulation. It's a common type of circuit used in inverters. It takes a dc or ac voltage and converts it to digital sine waves. Which is not the same as AC sine wave. Not precisely though close enough for most equipment.

Got it. Thanks.

This type of circuit is rather complex as it involves capacitors and resistance values in RC timing circuits in older methods. Newer methods use specific pulse generation chips. Though this amounts to transistor diode circuits built into the IC chips. To deliver a modulating (rate and amplitude square wave). The circuits also includes diodes.

Understood that this circuit has capacitors, resistors and diodes but not understand RC timing circuits and pulse generation chips. See I have labeled my circuit

Ideally you want an oscilloscope to troubleshoot this circuit. Using a digital multimeter may not be enough.

Here is a few circuits for PWM. This circuit can be inside a single IC with component control circuits feeding the IC chip itself. Such as those variable resistors your adjusting. Those variable resistors are probably adjusting the TIMING CIRCUITS of the PWM digital on off rates.

I believe though not sure that 2nd repair person used Oscilloscope on my stabilizer. He checked by varying input voltages and later concluded that this stabilizer will only stablize voltage >= 180 Vac

Ok so those screw like things are actually are used to adjust resistors. I visited your given link and recalled my subject of PHY301 : Circuit Theory To be honest, I did not take this subject seriously.

now here is the concern. You had two occurances of sparking at a relay. If this is a solid state relay damage to the relay may have occurred. However if it is an electromechanical relay it may be fine. However other components on the same circuit as the relay may have been damaged. Ie an internal circuit of an IC or transistor. Troubleshooting these can give experienced and certified electronic techs with the right equipment nightmares.

How can I know whether it is solid state or electromagnetical relay? Understood one thing here the one I labeled as diode in this might be transistor? if yes then where is diode in this circuit? It is tough thats why 2 repair person have not been able to repair it

Instead of powering up another inverter hook the output from this Inverter to other 220 ac devices. Light etc. You may damage your imini inverter as it expects a certain type of incoming voltage.

I connected 1000 watts electric iron and its indicator light didn't light up instead of my trying 2-3 times but when I tried same iron on normal power, it worked. Imini inverter expects voltage between 170 Vac - 280 Vac in narrow mode and 90 Vac - 280 Vac in wide mode.

Can you provide what the voltage specifications are on the imini inverter? Does it expect incoming DC power? ( most likely) ....

Already provided above and no it aspects AC. I rather should say it is a uninterruptible power supply but not sure why they have written inverter on its packing? You might be understanding it as a inverter which convert Batteries power to Ac and batteries require separate charger to be charged but this is full unit. It has built in 10A or 20 A (adjustable) charger, I have connected 100 Amp lead acid battery to it. When there is electric power it charges the battery and also provide ac to the home as in mains (no stabilizing) but when the electric power is cut off it provide 220+ voltage converting DC from the battery connected. I want to provide AC power to this inverter from a stabilizer because it do no stabilize in main mode, only stabilize in backup mode.

Think about that for a second.

inverters convert DC to AC...
your power regulator outputs rectified AC....
in other words its supplying the wrong type of voltage.....
(Which will damage both components)
(Inverters take power from battery power, DC direct current NOT AC, or rectified AC alternating current)

I think I have answered it.

I understand that English is not your first language, but I am seriously struggling to understand what you are trying to achieve.

Sorry about that but I hope I will be able to make it clear. Also, replied to Mordred so you can see answers to you concerns.

If you can upload photos to dropbox, why can you not upload them here to the site?

When I started this topic, I tried uploading 9 photos but failed three times to started using Dropbox and still doing will try to use forum for any other photos.

I really need a connection diagram to understand how you are connecting these two boxes and what you are expecting to happen.

I have tried and to be honest, I am not expert with it and this may not be something you are expecting.

The first rule of (electrical) servicing is

Divide the setup in to sections and find out which section is not working properly.
So Mordred's suggestion to try different loads on the stabiliser and report the outcomes is really sound.

I believe problem is in this circuit with relays, capacitors and resistors etc but not sure.
I have tried to follow Mordred and tried 1000 electric iron on it but even the indicator light of electric iron did not light up and when I tried in normal socket, it worked.

If your only tools are mechanical hand tools how do you know what voltage the stabiliser is giving?

I have connected input of Imini inverter (UPS) to this stablizer and that Imini inverter (UPS) has lcd which shows input volts, output volts along with battery power, load and inverter mode. Main mode and backup mode. So I determined voltage from that lcd and also from analog meters in stabilizer.

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I connected 1000 watts electric iron and its indicator light didn't light up instead of my trying 2-3 times but when I tried same iron on normal power,

This is the most useful thing you have said so far and is a simple short answer to a question we asked at the beginning.

As a non electrical expert (no disrespect intended) why do you keep guessing what an electrical expert might need/want to know, instead of putting a lot of effort into telling us things of uncertain nature.

I will post a diagram later of what I think you have told us so that we can proceed.

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This is the most useful thing you have said so far and is a simple short answer to a question we asked at the beginning.

Thats great. After all, I said something useful

As a non electrical expert (no disrespect intended) why do you keep guessing what an electrical expert might need/want to know, instead of putting a lot of effort into telling us things of uncertain nature.

I am sorry about that. This might be my habit but I always clarify that this is my belief and may not be true. I will try to take care of it in future. Thanks for pointing out.

I will post a diagram later of what I think you have told us so that we can proceed.

Thanks.

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OK, as I understand it

Mordred please chip in as you see fit.

Because of your location you have an unreliable mains electricity supply.

You wish to run some mains equipment that is sensitive to mains unreliability.

I have called this block C or unit C on my diagram.

Electrically it is the intended load.

You have purchased units A and B to help with the situation.

You do not want units A and B for themselves, just to run unit C (and perhaps D, E etc).

First and most important.

I have shown you mains electricity supply as a wallsocket W with three terminals.

Line (some wrongly call it live)

Neutral

Earth

Is this correct?

What indications are there for earthing of units A and B (and load C)?

I have, for the time being only showed two connections here (line and neutral)

How many separate wires are there in the cable that connects ~

W to A

A to B

B to C

Now I am of the opinion that your unit A is what is properly called a line conditioner.

Any other more fnacy name is just advertising fluff.

Does this sem to describe it?

Edited by studiot
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on Studiots question it will also help us knowing the specifications of your rural power. From a Google search your probably using 230 volt 50 hertz single phase correct? Does any of these 4 plugs match to one on the rectifier? If not can you post a picture of each plug and socket. (This will help identify your electrical supply).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/d/

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/g/

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/h/

also I couldn't track down any technical manuals on your components.

Somewhere on each device there should be a nameplate with details.

Make and model number

Wattage

Input/ output power

Supply and output amps.

The other question is "are these devices single or three phase?". At 230 watt it can be either. The trouble shooting and circuitry will vary on the last answer.

Keep in mind neither Studiot nor myself are familiar with the electrical codes of your country. The above questions will greatly help us to help you.

As far as changing the relays from 10 amps to 30 amps this won't deliver more power. The circuit supplying the relays are designed to deliver 10 amp max. All this will do is reduce the chance of relay damage from overcurrent.

Replacing the relays though may be necessary just don't expect extra power. Ideally you should replace one component with an identical or compatible component. Not redesign the circuit at your level of skill.

Do you have a digital multimeter?

Do you know how to test for an open or short using resistance?

If no say so and we can explain how.

If yes then start at the output. Clip ground lead to your ground outlet. (Keep device un powered) trace the outlet back to the first circuit component. If you see infinite resistance on the hot, live ,positive power line with the negative lead on the ground socket this is good. However if your detecting a measurable resistance in this case then you may be seeing some ground shorting.

Next test on resistors. Place negative lead on one side of a resistor the positive lead on opposite side. (You should have a measurable resistance). If you measure an infinite value the resistor is bad.

Go through each resistor on the board supplying the output plug only. Test this circuit board only at this stage. (Assuming multiple circuit boards are in your device).

When you get this test done and when you answer our questions We will move onto resistance checks on other components.

Visual check tests. Equipment magnifying glass...

1) clean components of any dust with a toothbrush. Remove any corrosion with same tool. (Do not use chemicals)

2) use magnifying glass, look for any signs of burnt discoloration. Look for any signs of component deformity( bumps, boils, out of shape capacitors, etc.

3) look at the soldering connections at each pin, signs that the soldering isn't solid.

Test 5. Output voltage check.

Power up unit with all components connected and case on. Identify the neutral outlet pin, identify the load, or live pin. See if your measuring 220 volts.

Test 5. Output amp test (requires a known load). Multimeter wired in series with the load. Recommend using a high amperage rated resistor (15 amp minimum). Of value 1 megohm.

Wire meter in series with resistor and output of unit. What is the amperage reading.

Another method is as per this link.

first method is simply a higher load. If you keep increasing the resistance values in series we can test the load capabilities of the unit.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circuits/Lesson-4/Two-Types-of-Connections

Ideally a decade box is handy but you don't have one so we will just use high amp rated resistors.

here is some guides to follow

http://www.circuitrework.com/guides/guides.shtml

http://www.ehow.com/how_6085622_fault-circuit-board.html

Diode testing

http://en-us.fluke.com/training/training-library/test-tools/digital-multimeters/how-to-test-diodes-using-a-digital-multimeter.html

Transistor testing with multimeter

http://m.instructables.com/id/HOW-TO-TEST-YOUR-TRANSISTORS-WITH-YOUR-MULTIMETERS/

Resistor troubleshooting with multimeter.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-use-a-multimeter-to-test-resistors/5034314/

outlet troubleshooting with multimeter.(basic)

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog/testing-an-electrical-outlet-using-a-digital-multimeter

These should get you started. Please supply us with results of the loaded (resistors and meter) in series amperage readings.

Electrical safety tips.

1) buy a 1" thick rubber mat. Stand on Matt while testing.

2) get a wrist ground strap wear while working near ICs.

3) ideally use electrical safety gloves.

4) keep your body out of contact with ground and circuit at all times (the safety gloves and rubber Matt help provide electrical isolation)

5) stick to un powered tests as much as possible. Do not do powered tests on open case components unless you can guarantee electrical isolation between circuit and ground through your body.

6) ensure all capacitors and inductors (including transformers) are fully discharged before any open circuit tests.

Do this by touching a 14 awg wire that is connected to ground to any and all pin mounts of said components. Do this on both sides of each of the above components. (Capacitors in particular can hold a charge for years unless discharged)

http://en-us.fluke.com/training/training-library/test-tools/digital-multimeters/how-to-measure-capacitance-with-a-digital-multimeter.html

http://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/06/how-to-check-capacitor-with-digital.html

Inductor troubleshoot.

To trouble shoot ICs however requires the datasheet for the specific IC. Also specialized equipment such as logic probes and signal generators.

However if the IC gets excessively hot. It's a failed component. (I typically use a infrared temperature gun to check for overheating components.

http://en-us.fluke.com/products/infrared-cameras/fluke-ti300-infrared-camera-60-hz.html

However a cheaper option is

http://www.myflukestore.ca/product/fluke_62_max_mini_infrared_thermometer?gclid=CjwKEAjw5J6sBRDp3ty_17KZyWsSJABgp-OahVTX79589wnPaEYXELqD3b9ZdCT578YeN-fFiThezhoCh_zw_wcB

Touching overheating components can lead to burns. This is a safe and practical option.

Edit forgot to mention when wiring to the outlet plug use minimum 14 awg wire due to the amperage rating.

Edited by Mordred
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• 2 weeks later...

OK, as I understand it

Good

Because of your location you have an unreliable mains electricity supply.

Yes

Is this correct?

I have 2 terminal electricity at my home Line and Neutral

What indications are there for earthing of units A and B (and load C)?

Sorry not sure what do you mean?

How many separate wires are there in the cable that connects ~

W to A
A to B
B to C

W socket is something like this but it have two sockets, one 2 terminal socket and one 3 terminal socket. I believe ground in this would be unconnected as my electricity is is only two terminal.

The unit I am trying to repair would be A and it has two wires

The inverter or ups whom I want to supply reliable voltage from Unit A is unit B has 3 wires and unit A has 3 terminal socket in it from which B connects.

The load or C unit have 1 wire (Line) but it connects from ups 3 terminal socket using 3 terminal plug and neutral and earth are unconnected in this plug. Load C is actually ups or inverter wiring for running home energy savers, fans and sockets. You can learn more about it here

Does this sem to describe it?

My unit A may be a line conditioner. As I could understand, line conditioner do a lot more than just maintaining constant voltage but not sure whether my unit A do all of the functions described. Anyhow, my unit A is a local Pakistani Stablizer. Although, I am not able to track my product online but here is similar local products

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This thread is getting slightly out of hand, first we need to understand and solve the issue with the stabilizer before we can move on to other equipment the OP want to connect to it.

-----

I have only looked at a few of the photos since I have serious trouble with dropbox from work and this seems to be a very simple device only able to stabilize voltage above around 180-190 VAC and up to 250-260 VAC with a maximum current of 10 amperes.

There is no pulse wide modulation, switching nor capacitor filtering in this unit. I guess it has a low voltage transformer that probably has an output of around 24 to 30 VAC which then is put in series, (by the two relays), with the line supply, such that it either increase or decrease the output voltage. The two potentiometers is there to adjust the voltage limits when one of the relays should activate to alter the output.

So for an example if the input goes below 200 VAC, then one relay change state such that the transformator output adds to the line voltage which would then give an output of 200 + 24 = 224 VAC and if the input goes above 250 VAC, then the other relay change state such that the transformator voltage lowers the output voltage to 250 - 24 = 226 VAC.

Of course the output voltage of the transformer would also decrease or increase with the same amount as the input voltage changes, which means that around 180 VAC the output would only be around 200 VAC.

-----

The second repairman seemed to know what he was talking about and doing, and since the unit apparently worked when he tested it, within the voltage limits he concluded the stabilizer only can handle, have you changed anything or did anything happen afterwards?

When the stabilizer is deemed to not be working, is it not working above 180 VAC input or not working below 180 VAC input?

The stabilizer seem to have two meters on the front, what do they measure, input, output, voltage or amperes?

What does the two meters on the stabilizer show with and without the 1000 watts electric iron connected?

What does the two meters on the stabilizer show with and without a standard light bulb connected?

Is the light bulb dark, glowing or shining?

Edited by Spyman
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From a Google search your probably using 230 volt 50 hertz single phase correct?

I called local office in my city and they told me its single phase but they were not able to confirm about frequency. My electricity company website is http://www.pesco.gov.pk/. This might help you.

If not can you post a picture of each plug and socket. (This will help identify your electrical supply).

Yes. Here are they BTW, sorry for using Dropbox again but I am not able to post these too photos on this forum.

also I couldn't track down any technical manuals on your components.

Somewhere on each device there should be a nameplate with details.
Make and model number
Wattage
Input/ output power
Supply and output amps.

The other question is "are these devices single or three phase?". At 230 watt it can be either. The trouble shooting and circuitry will vary on the last answer.

Off course single phase as local electricity office told me.

As far as changing the relays from 10 amps to 30 amps this won't deliver more power. The circuit supplying the relays are designed to deliver 10 amp max. All this will do is reduce the chance of relay damage from overcurrent.

I see.

Replacing the relays though may be necessary just don't expect extra power. Ideally you should replace one component with an identical or compatible component. Not redesign the circuit at your level of skill.

Agree

Do you have a digital multimeter?

Do you know how to test for an open or short using resistance?

No

No

............................................

Thanks for the tests but I require digital multi meter as well as other things to do this. I just inquired by calling and they only offered me analog multi meter for about 3$and I can replace whole circuit of my unit including identical relays for 4$ including 1$service. If I go for 30 A relays then it will charge me 5$ including service charges. Now I believe it would be better if I take this unit again to repair person and try by replacing circuit. As I believe, there are only two main parts in this unit, transformer and this circuit and I wish transformer would be alright. If it develops some fault then I might have to bear costs equal to buying new unit.

Just a suggestion

Which stabilizer should I buy if I want a constant 220 V irrespective of fluctuations in mains voltage? Voltage may drop to as low as 100 V or even low and not sure about high voltage limit.

I have only looked at a few of the photos since I have serious trouble with dropbox from work

Sorry about that but I am having problem to upload so much photos to this forum so thats why went with Dropbox.

and this seems to be a very simple device only able to stabilize voltage above around 180-190 VAC and up to 250-260 VAC with a maximum current of 10 amperes.

But this is opposed to what it says on its front plate

Of course the output voltage of the transformer would also decrease or increase with the same amount as the input voltage changes, which means that around 180 VAC the output would only be around 200 VAC.

Thats sad. This unit must output 220 V irrespective of fluctuations from 90 V - 250 V. If it cannot do this then its useless for me.

The second repairman seemed to know what he was talking about and doing, and since the unit apparently worked when he tested it, within the voltage limits he concluded the stabilizer only can handle, have you changed anything or did anything happen afterwards?

Yes I tried to rotated screw like things shown below clockwise and anti clockwise.

When the stabilizer is deemed to not be working, is it not working above 180 VAC input or not working below 180 VAC input?

It now only gives output equal to input. It gives power but 1000 W electric iron didn't work on it as I tested.

The stabilizer seem to have two meters on the front, what do they measure, input, output, voltage or amperes?

Input and output voltage respectively

What does the two meters on the stabilizer show with and without the 1000 watts electric iron connected?

Both were showing same voltage

What does the two meters on the stabilizer show with and without a standard light bulb connected?

Is the light bulb dark, glowing or shining?

Didn't try and I only have energy savers at my home.

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But this is opposed to what it says on its front plate

The front implies that the device can handle 90 to 250 VAC but it does not specifically guarantee that it will output 220 VAC from 90 VAC. From the image it looks more like there is one indicator light that shows that the input is between this level and one indicator that shows when the output is around 220 VAC.

Yes I tried to rotated screw like things shown below clockwise and anti clockwise.

Did you take note on how they where located so that you can return them to the position the second repairman placed them in?

It now only gives output equal to input. It gives power but 1000 W electric iron didn't work on it as I tested.

How do you know it gives power if the electric iron didn't work?

Input and output voltage respectively

Good.

Both were showing same voltage

What voltage did they show with the electric iron connected?

Didn't try and I only have energy savers at my home.

Can you get a light bulb for testing? It is not as good as a voltmeter, but satisfies to give a rough voltage indication and is not expensive.

You also missed out to reply to this important question:

When the stabilizer is deemed to not be working, is it not working above 180 VAC input or not working below 180 VAC input?

Edited by Spyman
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The front implies that the device can handle 90 to 250 VAC but it does not specifically guarantee that it will output 220 VAC from 90 VAC. From the image it looks more like there is one indicator light that shows that the input is between this level and one indicator that shows when the output is around 220 VAC.

Did you take note on how they where located so that you can return them to the position the second repairman placed them in?

How do you know it gives power if the electric iron didn't work?

Good.

What voltage did they show with the electric iron connected?

Can you get a light bulb for testing? It is not as good as a voltmeter, but satisfies to give a rough voltage indication and is not expensive.

You also missed out to reply to this important question:

Oh, I see but I was believing it will output exact 220 V irrespective of input voltage fluctuations within the specified range. No indicator light blows only when unit is working and indicator meters show voltage at input level and voltage at output level.

No.

When connected my UPS from it, it worked as its LCD was showing volts but not 220 but when connected electric iron, it didn't work even indicator light didn't blew. At the same time when I tried on normal socket, electric iron worked.

To be honest, I didn't notice the voltage when connected electric iron but input and output meter was showing voltage.

Ok I will.

Sorry about that and reply to important question is "Usually I noticed below 180 VAC as summer here and voltage is mostly low and it was giving same voltage on output e.g if 179 VAC on input then same on output as I am able to guess from analog meters".

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Oh, I see but I was believing it will output exact 220 V irrespective of input voltage fluctuations within the specified range.

There is nothing in that device that will make it able to output exactly 220 VAC. It has three stages, adding a low voltage to input, removing a low voltage from input or forwarding input to output.

(Also if the input voltage goes way too low the relays will not be able to activate and it can only forward input to output.)

It is likely that you have changed the settings for the two potentiometers such that the two relays no longer can activate as they should.

Finding the correct settings for the potentiometers without access to adjustable voltage is not going to be easy and since it requires adjusting with live voltage it will be dangerous.

My recommendation is that you take it back to the second repairman and let him redo the adjustment and check the unit again.

But even with the settings back as they were intended, the unit will not be able to give 220 VAC from 90 VAC.

However when your main voltage is above 180 VAC it can stabilize the voltage and ease the strain on your UPS.

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There is nothing in that device that will make it able to output exactly 220 VAC. It has three stages, adding a low voltage to input, removing a low voltage from input or forwarding input to output.

(Also if the input voltage goes way too low the relays will not be able to activate and it can only forward input to output.)

It is likely that you have changed the settings for the two potentiometers such that the two relays no longer can activate as they should.

Finding the correct settings for the potentiometers without access to adjustable voltage is not going to be easy and since it requires adjusting with live voltage it will be dangerous.

My recommendation is that you take it back to the second repairman and let him redo the adjustment and check the unit again.

But even with the settings back as they were intended, the unit will not be able to give 220 VAC from 90 VAC.

However when your main voltage is above 180 VAC it can stabilize the voltage and ease the strain on your UPS.

Ok. Thanks. This was what the second repair person told me and he used Variac Transformer to set this screw like things (potentiometers?). When I told him about my voltage condition then he told me that this unit will work only at 180 Vac. So he called it useless for me. Can you suggest some stabilizer or regular which give constant 220?

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You have already wasted money, time and effort on the wrong equipment because you have tried to tell electrical experts what you should have.

Instead of saying "I want to stabilise my mains to 220 volts"

or even

My mains varies and sometimes drops as low as 180 volts.

Say I need to supply the following equipment { Insert List} and if possible why you think 220 volts is so critcal.

Then let the experts ask the questions designed to point you at the appropriate solution.

Also if I understand you correctly you are saying that you run power devices in the 10 amp range at 220 volts without any safety precaution (ie no earth)

I would advise you this is very dangerous and against Pakistan Electrical codes since at least as far back as 1937.

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Can you suggest some stabilizer or regular which give constant 220?

If you want 220 VAC independent of input voltage then you need some kind of inverter.

It have to automatically switch from bypass mode when voltage drops to low and start to supply 220 VAC but still be able to continue charging its battery or capacitors in the intermediate circuit with the low input voltage.

(Or if you have very long periods with low voltage then you could have a separate charger and inverter and manually turn them on when they are needed.)

Much like your UPS but with an intermediate mode where it supplies enhanced power while still charging the battery from the low input voltage.

I have no idea of what models and brands there are on the market that can fulfill your needs, but I am sure a local salesman or the second repairman can help you.

(If your voltage normally is so low, then there should be lots of different equipment to choose from.)

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You have already wasted money, time and effort on the wrong equipment because you have tried to tell electrical experts what you should have.

Instead of saying "I want to stabilise my mains to 220 volts"

or even

My mains varies and sometimes drops as low as 180 volts.

Say I need to supply the following equipment { Insert List} and if possible why you think 220 volts is so critcal.

Then let the experts ask the questions designed to point you at the appropriate solution.

Also if I understand you correctly you are saying that you run power devices in the 10 amp range at 220 volts without any safety precaution (ie no earth)

I would advise you this is very dangerous and against Pakistan Electrical codes since at least as far back as 1937.

True

This is true I want to stabilize my voltage to 220

Yes my main voltage varies and 180 is not the lowest limit. Today, it has dropped as low as < 90 VAC

I need to supply equipment within 1000 VA range. Equipment are:

1 - Energy Savers

2 - Fans

3 - PC along with Lcd

4 - Laptop

5- mobile chargers

7 - 350 watts juicer sometime mostly in day.

Off course, I do not use all these things at once as my inverter is only 600 watts but my load is not more than 300 watts usually. Juicer is mostly run for 5 - 10 minutes and at that time I try to minimize other load to ensure that load do not cross 600 watts limit.

When power goes off then my inverter starts to give backup and it give volts > 220. At that voltage all my fans run with fast speed but when light came back then inverter continue supplying main voltage as is and fans run too slowly and I feel annoyed by this difference so I believe 220 is critical so that I do not feel any difference in main as well as inverter mode.

I am not sure whether my devices are in 10 amp range or not because I do not understand amps system, only understand watts system my home wiring only has two cables no earth.

I am not sure whether this is against Pakistan electrical codes as my home wiring is so old and also I have seen new wiring around me which are also two wired only i.e. no earth. Pakistan was founded in 1947 so this 1937 codes might not be applicable.

If you want 220 VAC independent of input voltage then you need some kind of inverter.

It have to automatically switch from bypass mode when voltage drops to low and start to supply 220 VAC but still be able to continue charging its battery or capacitors in the intermediate circuit with the low input voltage.

(Or if you have very long periods with low voltage then you could have a separate charger and inverter and manually turn them on when they are needed.)

Much like your UPS but with an intermediate mode where it supplies enhanced power while still charging the battery from the low input voltage.

I have no idea of what models and brands there are on the market that can fulfill your needs, but I am sure a local salesman or the second repairman can help you.

(If your voltage normally is so low, then there should be lots of different equipment to choose from.)

I already have inverter. It has two charging modes narrow and wide. In narrow charging mode, It charges battery and supply voltage as coming from mains if the voltage is >= 170 VAC but below that it provide 220+ VAC from the battery but do not charge the battery. This is the drawback.

I am also thinking of charging my UPS battery separately using a separate charger and try to provide 12 V to UPS through this charger and supply no input to UPS. In this way ups will always work in backup mode always and supply 220+ but wonder this modified sine wave from the ups always would be dangerous for my appliances? Does stabilizer output pure sine wave? Just have a look and tell whether is this possible?

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