farah123 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Why can't H4O2+ be formed ? H2O has 2 pair it can form a dative bond to form H3O+ why then the second pair form another dative bond ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enthalpy Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Did you mean H5O2+? Ions exist in solids and solutions (or in vacuum before they meet matter). In water, H+ is always hydrated many times (I have 3 to 5 times as a mean in memory, could be wrong). So H3O+ is already too short; rather a reminder the some H2O must be accounted if H+ goes in a different compound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I think he means putting two additional protons onto a water molecule. If I was convinced it wasn't a homework question, I would post an answer. Remind me in a week (I guess homework would have to be handed in to the teacher by then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farah123 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) I think he means putting two additional protons onto a water molecule. If I was convinced it wasn't a homework question, I would post an answer. Remind me in a week (I guess homework would have to be handed in to the teacher by then) John i promse you that it's not a homework, i have an exam tomorrow and i still don't know the answer i need, so please ? Did you mean H5O2+? Ions exist in solids and solutions (or in vacuum before they meet matter). In water, H+ is always hydrated many times (I have 3 to 5 times as a mean in memory, could be wrong). So H3O+ is already too short; rather a reminder the some H2O must be accounted if H+ goes in a different compound. No not exactly, i mean H4O that has a charge of 2+, you know the dative bond and the pair of electrons ? That's my question. Edited December 18, 2013 by farah123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endy0816 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Pretty good topic about this already: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/67272-when-water-can-form-an-h30-ion-why-cant-it-form-an-h4o2-ion/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farah123 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Pretty good topic about this already: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/67272-when-water-can-form-an-h30-ion-why-cant-it-form-an-h4o2-ion/ I opened this one already but the answers weren't convincing :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 To make H4O ++ you would need to get H+ to stick to H3O+ and the electrostatic repulsion between the two positive charges makes that very unfavourable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farah123 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) To make H4O ++ you would need to get H+ to stick to H3O+ and the electrostatic repulsion between the two positive charges makes that very unfavourable. Thank you, unfortunately i already had my exam, but seriously thank you. Edited December 19, 2013 by farah123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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