A-wal Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Without life the universe wouldn't look, sound, feel, taste or smell like anything, so what would it be? Just an equation. For existence to exist it needs to be lived. I think it's fair to say that the universe can be described using mathematics alone. There's no reason to ask what gives form to those equations. We do that ourselves. We give it form and substance. Everything that we think of as real is purely a creation of our own minds. Whether we experience the same thing is something that we may never know. There are always multiple correct ways of looking at something. John Conways game of life shows that the rules needed to generate complex interactions can be extremely simple: . Imagine a computer simulation of a more complicated version of the game of life, keeping the basic square grid with just two states but with more in depth rules and covering more dimensions. Now imagine that we zoom out and observe genuine life within the simulation. Now we switch off the computer. That life doesn't just vanish from existence. It's just squares on a grid. What we would have done is created a window to something that we wouldn't normally be aware of. What we think of as reality simply isn't needed to create what we experience. It's an unnecessary step based on an assumption that there needs to be an underlying cause, but this is a never ending question because you can always ask; well, what caused that? The question becomes invalid when asked in the context of existence itself. It's like asking why 1+1=2. It just does. The mathematical interactions give rise to pure geometry, which I think is maybe the E8 described in Garret Lisis theory of everything (it's just so pretty): http://www.ted.com/talks/garrett_lisi_on_his_theory_of_everything.html. The properties of this shape are responsible for everything we experience and much more, in fact everything that can happen. The symmetry seems broken from our perspective because we have an extremely limited view of the overall structure. The senses are just labels that we attach to the mathematics around us that we're only partially aware of. Seeing is believing. Edited October 8, 2012 by A-wal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 So seeing is believing, yet we have an extremely limited view of the universe. You're basing your beliefs on incomplete data. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-wal Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 We all are. Everything we perceive is just an exrapolation created by our minds. Take that away and what's left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 We all are. Everything we perceive is just an exrapolation created by our minds. Take that away and what's left? Step in front of a bus, and tell me it's simply created in your mind. Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Philip K. Dick, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-wal Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Step in front of a bus, and tell me it's simply created in your mind. Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Philip K. Dick, What would that prove? I think you're the type of person this forum and world would be better off without, not me. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 What would that prove? I think you're the type of person this forum and world would be better off without, not me. It proves that reality isn't a matter of perception. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-wal Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) (: How? I don't think you quite understand. Edited October 8, 2012 by A-wal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 ! Moderator Note A-wal - no more criticisms or characterisations of the other members. Attack the argument - and not the person. What would that prove? I think you're the type of person this forum and world would be better off without, not me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-wal Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) He basically told me to go jump in front of a bus. This dude is really getting on my nerves. He's going to get me banned soon. By the looks of it he gets his kicks by putting others down because he has such a low opinion of himsef. He's a troll! The bad kind. You know him better than I do. Tell me I'm wrong. Edited October 9, 2012 by A-wal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It proves that reality isn't a matter of perception. Damn, you let the cat out of the bag and we were so close... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 ! Moderator Note You're wrong. A. His injunction to step in front of a bus was clearly a debating device to demonstrate a problem with your contentions.B. No one will get you banned if you stay within the rules.C. You are still insulting him - stop immediately.D. You have been told that response to modnotes should be via personal message or via the report facility He basically told me to go jump in front of a bus. This dude is really getting on my nerves. He's going to get me banned soon. By the looks of it he gets his kicks by putting others down because he has such a low opinion of himsef. He's a troll! The bad kind. You know him better than I do. Tell me I'm wrong. Your continued attacks on other members -especially after being warned - is making it very likely you will be suspended. there will be no more warnings. Again do not derail the thread by replying to this modnote within the thread - use the PM system or the report facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-wal Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 I've just noticed the title mistake. Any chance that can be changed? That's going to annoy me know I've seen it. I can't believe I didn't spot that before. Also there's two spaces between 'help registering' on the front page. I noticed that straight away and it bugs the hell out of me every time. (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshaker Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If i was to step in front of a bus, would that not mean i created that reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T L E Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Get real! (Sorry, couldn't help saying it....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-wal Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) If i was to step in front of a bus, would that not mean i created that reality? Whatever physical process you want to think of has to be experienced using your senses. Our sense are what create the physical world out of nothing, other than pure geometry/mathematics. If you think of any physical process without using your senses to imagine what it would look, sound, feel, taste or taste like and think about what's actually happening then all you're left with is geometric mathematical equations. If you were to jump in front of a bus then your brain would stop creating this perceived illusional reality. We don't even know that our brains translate the external input in the same way. What you think of as sight, hearing, ect may be nothing like what I think of them as. Everyone's getting the same data and drawing the same conclusions from it but there's no way for us to compare the bit inbetween. It could be as unique as a finger print. Edited October 13, 2012 by A-wal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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