Arete Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Please present evidence, the universe is all there is. There's a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between Earth and Mars with your name on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elshamah Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 When you start presenting evidence, I'll listen. No, you will not. The problem is not the evidence. The problem is your will. Even if i would prove you Gods existence, you would reject God. If you aren't here to discuss things based on evidence and science, why did you join a science forum? I have actually done so, and shown that the codified, complex, specified information contained in DNA unmistakenly evidences a intelligent mind as origin of life. But you prefere to tape your ears and eyes. So the same question, you should actually direct to yourself. You have made a positive assertion that god exists, in fact you are asserting that a particular god exists but no matter, the burden of proof is on you not me.... I am able only to show why i believe the scientific evidence points to a intelligent creator. I have done so. Information in DNA is just one of many examples. If you do not believe in my interpretation of facts, how about you present a BETTER explanation , lets start, and talk - how about just the information contained in DNA ?! If you think , no intelligence was involved, what else, and why would that something else be more compelling ? This assertion is at odds with experimental results for the Casimir effect. Particles pop in and out of existence even in an "empty" space and they cause measurable effects. Your reasoning is based on a false premise (as well as being deeply logically flawed) BS. John Barrow and Frank Tipler comment, ". . . the modern picture of the quantum vacuum differs radically from the classical and everyday meaning of a vacuum-- nothing. . . . The quantum vacuum (or vacuua, as there can exist many) states . . . are defined simply as local, or global, energy minima (V'(O)= O, V"(O)>O)" ([1986], p. 440). The microstructure of the quantum vacuum is a sea of continually forming and dissolving particles which borrow energy from the vacuum for their brief existence. A quantum vacuum is thus far from nothing, and vacuum fluctuations do not constitute an exception to the principle that whatever begins to exist has a cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 No, you will not. The problem is not the evidence. The problem is your will. Even if i would prove you Gods existence, you would reject God. How can you say that? You don't know that person, in fact you are making a totally baseless assertion that he has a closed mind. It's quite insulting... I have actually done so, and shown that the codified, complex, specified information contained in DNA unmistakenly evidences a intelligent mind as origin of life. But you prefere to tape your ears and eyes. So the same question, you should actually direct to yourself. And you have been shown that you are using the wrong idea about information. Insults will not accomplish anything. I am able only to show why i believe the scientific evidence points to a intelligent creator. I have done so. Information in DNA is just one of many examples. If you do not believe in my interpretation of facts, how about you present a BETTER explanation , lets start, and talk - how about just the information contained in DNA ?! If you think , no intelligence was involved, what else, and why would that something else be more compelling ? Again, you have been provided with a better explanation, your interpretation of the facts has been shown to be flawed. BS. John Barrow and Frank Tipler comment, ". . . the modern picture of the quantum vacuum differs radically from the classical and everyday meaning of a vacuum-- nothing. . . . The quantum vacuum (or vacuua, as there can exist many) states . . . are defined simply as local, or global, energy minima (V'(O)= O, V"(O)>O)" ([1986], p. 440). The microstructure of the quantum vacuum is a sea of continually forming and dissolving particles which borrow energy from the vacuum for their brief existence. A quantum vacuum is thus far from nothing, and vacuum fluctuations do not constitute an exception to the principle that whatever begins to exist has a cause. Again you try to introduce a strawman, you are the one who is claiming that something must come from nothing. An intelligent creator from nothing or an intelligent creator making something from nothing, both are just added complications that add nothing to the conversation but more layers of BS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akh Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) I have actually done so, and shown that the codified, complex, specified information contained in DNA unmistakenly evidences a intelligent mind as origin of life. But you prefere to tape your ears and eyes. So the same question, you should actually direct to yourself. Again, (how many times is this?) no you have not I am able only to show why i believe the scientific evidence points to a intelligent creator. I have done so. Information in DNA is just one of many examples. What you believe does not matter, you need to provide real evidence. Sources? If you do not believe in my interpretation of facts, how about you present a BETTER explanation , lets start, and talk - how about just the information contained in DNA ?! Your interpretation by itself is not evidence. Even if it was, why do you think your interpretation has any value when you clearly do not have good knowledge of the topic you are arguing? If you think , no intelligence was involved, what else, and why would that something else be more compelling ? You keep trying to place meaning and purpose behind the existence of DNA. There is no meaning or purpose behind the existence of DNA. There is no what else or why. The only question is how. Do you understand why this is the only question? Edited August 7, 2012 by akh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonstar57 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) No, you will not. The problem is not the evidence. The problem is your will. Even if i would prove you Gods existence, you would reject God. Thus far no evidence has been presented.to validate the statements about DNA information having to coming from a mind. I have actually done so, and shown that the codified, complex, specified information contained in DNA unmistakenly evidences a intelligent mind as origin of life. But you prefere to tape your ears and eyes. So the same question, you should actually direct to yourself. complexity is not proof of design. I am able only to show why i believe the scientific evidence points to a intelligent creator. I have done so. Information in DNA is just one of many examples. If you do not believe in my interpretation of facts, how about you present a BETTER explanation , lets start, and talk - how about just the information contained in DNA ?! If you think , no intelligence was involved, what else, and why would that something else be more compelling ? 1. Something capable of self replication arose through chemical reactions. 2. This "something" was not a perfect replicator of its simple chemicals and changes occurred 3. Complexity arouse through natural selection. ie DNA eventually began to be used and the originally random code which made inefficient proteins eventually became specific codes to make more efficient, complicated proteins. 4.??? 5 profit!!! BS. John Barrow and Frank Tipler comment, ". . . the modern picture of the quantum vacuum differs radically from the classical and everyday meaning of a vacuum-- nothing. . . . The quantum vacuum (or vacuua, as there can exist many) states . . . are defined simply as local, or global, energy minima (V'(O)= O, V"(O)>O)" ([1986], p. 440). The microstructure of the quantum vacuum is a sea of continually forming and dissolving particles which borrow energy from the vacuum for their brief existence. A quantum vacuum is thus far from nothing, and vacuum fluctuations do not constitute an exception to the principle that whatever begins to exist has a cause. Then what is gods cause? If god doesn't need a cause why does the universe require one? This is where you pull out the old "begins to exist" "He always existed" You will say. Perhaps the universe always existed as well. Perhaps the "cause" is not a creator but always existed. Your notions of cause are all based on your perceptions of time which is part of the universe. Either time always existed or the concept of cause makes no sense. Edited August 7, 2012 by dragonstar57 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg H. Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) No, you will not. The problem is not the evidence. The problem is your will. Even if i would prove you Gods existence, you would reject God. Your presumption of my religious status is nearly as arrogant as your presumption that your belief is the only one that matters. I have actually done so, and shown that the codified, complex, specified information contained in DNA unmistakenly evidences a intelligent mind as origin of life. But you prefere to tape your ears and eyes. So the same question, you should actually direct to yourself. No, you haven't. You've stated it, but you haven't actually provided any evidence that has not been repeatedly refuted, shown to be incorrect, or is blatantly misrepresenting the science. I am able only to show why i believe the scientific evidence points to a intelligent creator. I have done so. Not to put too fine a point on it, but no one really gives two shits what you believe. All that matters is what you can prove. If it is necessary that life requires an intelligent creator, than you need to prove that one exists. Since no one has yet done so (and trust me, people have certainly tried, twisting science until it breaks), I am under no compulsion to assume your conclusion is correct without substantial proof. BS. This is a very succinct summation of your arguments to date. Edited August 8, 2012 by Greg H. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 ! Moderator Note Dear everybody,I'm (temporarily?) closing this thread. There are too many reported posts, and the poor moderators of this forum cannot deal with it at this moment.The sheer number of rule violations (mockery, prejudices, flaming, personal attacks and a huge list of logical fallacies) make it very hard to moderate this thread.We'll try to sort out the mess you've all created as soon as possible. Until then, please do not move your flame wars to another thread. Just be a little patient please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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